Real simple:

[talloulou]

The fetal human possesses an active central nervous system from at least the eighth week of development. Until mid-gestation the most significant center of activity is the brainstem. By the end of the first trimester, it appears that the brainstem could be acting as a rudimentary modulator of sensory information and motor activity. What importance ought to be attached to such regulatory activity is uncertain. Some argue that it represents a level of integrated activity sufficient to bolster an argument for conferring some measure of standing at this point. Our thinking about sentience is not advanced a great deal, as we as yet have no good way of talking about it at the brainstem level.

Entrez PubMed

 

[jallman]

Jallman...that reminds me of a scene in Monty Python's Holy Grail--

"Run away....run away...."
http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/runaway.wav

Felicity...you guys remind me of a scene from the Simpson's...

"For the last time, being able to do long division isn't witchcraft" :doh

 

[Felicity]

Felicity...you guys remind me of a scene from the Simpson's...

"For the last time, being able to do long division isn't witchcraft" :doh

I don't watch the Simpson's...lowbrow humor, you know

 

[Felicity]

So about "CAPACITY" jallman....

 

[jallman]

So about "CAPACITY" jallman....

Okay, so I am back from my on-site and fetus eating contest. About capacity. I suppose if you want to get down into an issue and make it another semantic pi$$ing contest, I can do that.

Capacity
Main Entry: 1ca·pac·i·ty
Pronunciation: k&-'pa-s&-tE, -'pas-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English capacite, from Middle French capacité, from Latin capacitat-, capacitas, from capac-, capax
1 : legal competency or fitness <capacity to stand trial>
2 a : the potential or suitability for holding, storing, or accommodating <a large seating capacity> b : the maximum amount or number that can be contained or accommodated <a jug with a one-gallon capacity> <the auditorium was filled to capacity> -- see METRIC SYSTEM table, WEIGHT table
3 a : an individual's mental or physical ability : APTITUDE, SKILL b : the faculty or potential for treating, experiencing, or appreciating <capacity for love>
4 : DUTY, POSITION, ROLE <will be happy to serve in any capacity>
5 : the facility or power to produce, perform, or deploy : CAPABILITY <a plan to double the factory's capacity>; also : maximum output <industries running at three-quarter capacity>
6 a : CAPACITANCE b : the quantity of electricity that a battery can deliver under specified conditions

Let's pay close attention to definition 3 as it is the only one which has a relevant context.

3 a : an individual's mental or physical ability : APTITUDE, SKILL b : the faculty or potential for treating, experiencing, or appreciating <capacity for love>

Has a ZEF (prior to a certain point which we have defined and redefined) ever shown any mental or physical ability? Has a ZEF shown any aptitude or skill? Has a ZEF ever shown faculty or potential for treating, experiencing, or appreciating? The answer is a definitive NO. Prior to the thalamus connecting to the cortex, there is no capacity. There is potential for capacity, but no capacity.

 

[Felicity]

make it another semantic pi$$ing contest, I can do that.

Capacity
Main Entry: 1ca·pac·i·ty

3 a : an individual's mental or physical ability : APTITUDE, SKILL b : the faculty or potential for treating, experiencing, or appreciating <capacity for love>

Your bladder is empty, jallman. You offer nothing but a piteous drizzle.

There is potential for capacity, but no capacity.

:rofl As if that makes any sense at all!:rofl

 

[jallman]

Your bladder is empty, jallman. You offer nothing but a piteous drizzle.

:rofl As if that makes any sense at all!:rofl

It doesn't make any sense. There is a step before that potential is even developed. The potential to have such capacity is there, but the capacity has yet to develop. :doh

 

[Felicity]

It doesn't make any sense. There is a step before that potential is even developed. The potential to have such capacity is there, but the capacity has yet to develop. :doh

You are still not making sense. Isn't the potential for potential the same thing as having the potential?

 

[jallman]

You are still not making sense. Isn't the potential for potential the same thing as having the potential?

No............

 

[FutureIncoming]

Felicity, your blathering/equivocation about "capacity" doesn't work any more, so why do you persist at it?
1) "capacity" can mean "potential", something that does not now exist, but which also could exist in the future.
2) "capacity" can mean "actual magnitude", a volume of space which can be filled with something. Do note that even in this definition, it is the "volume" and not the "filling".
3) "potential" is NEVER equal to "actual magnitude", and any attempt to equate the two, by using the intermediary word "capacity", is pure equivocation, and nothing else.

Thus an unborn human only has capacity/potential to, in the future, exhibit various characteristics such as Rational Will, that allow us to distinguish persons from animals. At no time during pregnancy does it have any capacity/actual-magnitude to exhibit those characteristics. Indeed, most of those characteristics, and possibly all of them, are measurably not exhibited until months after birth. Therefore the only possible conclusion is that every unborn human cannot qualify for person status, when this status depends upon being able to exhibit certain characteristics. Thus all unborn humans are only animals, and nothing you can say can change that Scientific Fact.

So why do you keep blathering/equivocating?

 

[C Foster]

Felicity, your blathering/equivocation about "capacity" doesn't work any more, so why do you persist at it?
1) "capacity" can mean "potential", something that does not now exist, but which also could exist in the future.
2) "capacity" can mean "actual magnitude", a volume of space which can be filled with something. Do note that even in this definition, it is the "volume" and not the "filling".
3) "potential" is NEVER equal to "actual magnitude", and any attempt to equate the two, by using the intermediary word "capacity", is pure equivocation, and nothing else.

Thus an unborn human only has capacity/potential to, in the future, exhibit various characteristics such as Rational Will, that allow us to distinguish persons from animals. At no time during pregnancy does it have any capacity/actual-magnitude to exhibit those characteristics. Indeed, most of those characteristics, and possibly all of them, are measurably not exhibited until months after birth. Therefore the only possible conclusion is that every unborn human cannot qualify for person status, when this status depends upon being able to exhibit certain characteristics. Thus all unborn humans are only animals, and nothing you can say can change that Scientific Fact.

So why do you keep blathering/equivocating?

It is hypercritical of you to tell someone to give up using the capacity argument and yet use it yourself as a counter argument.

Bad practice.

 

[Jerry]

If that is your position I will hold you to it.

All we need discuss is whether viability is a valid reason for killing humans.

As it stands today, unless the mother's health is at stake the state has no "compelling interest" justifying an intervention with an abortion of a pre-viable fetus.

Arguments regarding "valid reasons for killing humans" are rendered completely impotent without the ability to manifest a result in law or culture, therefore any effective PL argument will either hold up in court and/or sway the personal decision of an individual.

So far I have not seen you present an argument which could hold up in court nor am I seeing you convince PCers on this thread.

 

[Jerry]

You don't have to definition surf to find the definition of bigot. My prejudicial attitude toward the zygote, which has no beliefs to represent or express, cannot be considered bigoted. How can I be bigoted toward the zygote when it has no opinions for me to be intolerant of.

The pettiness just keeps on coming..

I'm glad you recognize the quality of your responses.

Ooooohhhhh, I know you are but what am I?
:roll:

You, sir, are being a bigot as it relates to tiny humans--and obstinately continuing to demonstrate it even in your denial of the meaning of the word bigot.

....despite all the snow on the ground, it obviously ain't Christmas....

 

[C Foster]

As it stands today, unless the mother's health is at stake the state has no "compelling interest" justifying an intervention with an abortion.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Arguments regarding "valid reasons for killing humans" are rendered completely impotent without the ability to manifest a result in law or culture, therefore any effective PL argument will either hold up in court and/or sway the personal decision of an individual.

Purely an opinion and a strange one at that.

So far I have not seen you present an argument which could hold up in court nor am I seeing you convince PCers on this thread.

Abortion is genocide.

How about that?

 

[jallman]

Abortion is genocide.

How about that?

The only way abortion can be genocide is if it is used with the intention of wiping out a genus/ethnicity.

You are being hysterical.

How about that?

 

[C Foster]

The only way abortion can be genocide is if it is used with the intention of wiping out a genus/ethnicity.

You are being hysterical.

How about that?

The unwanted unborn can be classified as an ethnic group.

 

[talloulou]

abortion is feticide.

 

[C Foster]

abortion is feticide.

You wouldn't call the killing of all unwanted teenagers, as “teenicide”.

The term is genocide.

 

[OKgrannie]

abortion is feticide.

But most abortions are performed at the embryo stage.

 

[OKgrannie]

You wouldn't call the killing of all unwanted teenagers, as “teenicide”.

The term is genocide.

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. Which group does the zef fall into?

Even if the zef did fall into one of the mentioned groups, there is no way abortion destroys the whole group.:2rofll: Do you see any shortage of babies?

 

[C Foster]

But most abortions are performed at the embryo stage.

That is another reason why genocide is the correct term.

 

[C Foster]

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. Which group does the zef fall into?

Even if the zef did fall into one of the mentioned groups, there is no way abortion destroys the whole group.:2rofll: Do you see any shortage of babies?

Ethnic group.

Abortion seeks the destruction of all unwanted unborn children.

 

[OKgrannie]

Ethnic group.

Abortion seeks the destruction of all unwanted unborn children.

An ethnic group is comprised of a large group classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background. What is your rationale for classifying zefs as an "ethnic group"?

 

[C Foster]

An ethnic group is comprised of a large group classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background. What is your rationale for classifying zefs as an "ethnic group"?

Genocide:

‬The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial,political, ‬or ethnic group.

‬The unwanted unborn are included as an ethnic group since an ethnic group is a group of people who identify with one another, ‬or are so identified by others, on the basis of a boundary that distinguishes them from other groups.

 

[Jerry]

You don't know what you are talking about.

(In my best impersonation of a pissed off black woman) Oh NO you did NOT just go there.............Favorites/Jerry's/Look-it-up/Laws/"RvW".....scrolling down.........scrolling down..........past it, scrolling up......ah yes, here it is:

RvW Section 11, 1

To summarize and to repeat:

1. A state criminal abortion statute of the current Texas type, that excepts from criminality only a life-saving procedure on behalf of the mother, without regard to pregnancy stage and without recognition of the other interests involved, is violative of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician.

(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health.

(c) For the stage subsequent to viability, the State in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life [410 U.S. 113, 165] may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where it is necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother.

Purely an opinion and a strange one at that.

..and here we see the classic "I don't like what you say so I'm just going to label it as an "opinion" in an attempt to minimize it" card...

Abortion is genocide.

How about that?

That neither holds up in court nor will it sway the opinion of any Pro-Choicer here.

***
If your intent here is to be an effective debater for PL then you will first need to get your facts straight and drop the rhetoric.