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Reagan’s Atrocities

RF667799 said:
Why did you delete your "something rotten in Denmark" comment?

Your overall assessment that the program has a "habit of producing tyrants and war criminals", is opinion. You bring no evidence to support that claim.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, let's look at some of those "graduates".

Like General Luis Gomez of Argentina. Who attended the "Communications Course" and the "Radio Repair Course" in 1958. Or General Leopoldo Galtieri, who attended the Engineer Course in 1949.

Or Colonel Luis Gomez, of Bolivia, who in 1958 also attended the Communications and Radio Repair Courses. Of course, I noticed right away that this information is the exact same as one in Argentina, so I put part of this up to simply sloppy research.

Or General Hernan Rodriguez of Columbia. He attended a Maintenance course there in 1969 as a Lieutenant. Or Colonel Roberto Hernandez, who attended an automotive maintenance course there in 1970. And General Farouk Diaz, also a graduate of the SoA Automotive Course in 1969.

Or General Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador, who took a Maintenance Management course there in 1961.

In El Salvador you have Captain Roberto D'Aubuisson who took a course for Communications in 1972. Or Lieutenant Colonel Domingo Barrios, who attended a course for parachute riggers. Colonel Inocente Montano took a course for Engineer Officers in 1970.

Now granted, General Manuel Noriega took a great many courses there. However, the school was in his home country, and he was a high ranking officer in the Panamanian military so that should not be surprising at all.

Oh, and I am actually taking this information from the "SOA Watch" webpage, which lists 55 individuals who attended the SoA as "Notorious". I have actually followed that site for years, and always get a good chuckle out of them when they make changes.

And I find it funny that they actually do list a lot of people who took classes in things like Communications, Maintenance Management, and Vehicle Maintenance decades before they did something as an example of how horrible the school is. Fact is the school is one of many like it, that offers training to US Allies and is the same thing taught to our own military. I have even attended similar courses in the US with military members from Norway, Canada, Jordan, and Iraq.

But the fact that a "source" that claims to be listing such individuals can only come up with about 55 of them. Of a school that has graduated over 60,000. That is what, less than 1 in 1,000?

I bet that the Los Angeles Unified School District has churned out more mass murderers than the SoA has.

Hell, I am not afraid that there will always be some that go bad. But to blame an entire school on the actions of what seems to be 1 in 1,000? I find it amazingly funny how many are so bigoted that they will stereotype an entire school and all of their graduates because some were bad. Hell, I can think of several murderers that got their training from the US Army and Marine Corps. Does that mean that those organizations train murderers?

And I bet that I even had the courage to admit these things, and actually took the effort to learn who some of them were. I bet he once again just issued blanket statements with nothing to back them up.
 
Tigerace117 said:
It sure as shit wasn't because of the mass murder of innocent people.
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How do you know that?

Iran came to the negotiating table to end the war with Iraq largely because the U.S. blew that Iranian airliner out of the sky.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Oh yes, let's look at some of those "graduates".

Like General Luis Gomez of Argentina. Who attended the "Communications Course" and the "Radio Repair Course" in 1958. Or General Leopoldo Galtieri, who attended the Engineer Course in 1949.

Or Colonel Luis Gomez, of Bolivia, who in 1958 also attended the Communications and Radio Repair Courses. Of course, I noticed right away that this information is the exact same as one in Argentina, so I put part of this up to simply sloppy research.

Or General Hernan Rodriguez of Columbia. He attended a Maintenance course there in 1969 as a Lieutenant. Or Colonel Roberto Hernandez, who attended an automotive maintenance course there in 1970. And General Farouk Diaz, also a graduate of the SoA Automotive Course in 1969.

Or General Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador, who took a Maintenance Management course there in 1961.

In El Salvador you have Captain Roberto D'Aubuisson who took a course for Communications in 1972. Or Lieutenant Colonel Domingo Barrios, who attended a course for parachute riggers. Colonel Inocente Montano took a course for Engineer Officers in 1970.

Now granted, General Manuel Noriega took a great many courses there. However, the school was in his home country, and he was a high ranking officer in the Panamanian military so that should not be surprising at all.

Oh, and I am actually taking this information from the "SOA Watch" webpage, which lists 55 individuals who attended the SoA as "Notorious". I have actually followed that site for years, and always get a good chuckle out of them when they make changes.

And I find it funny that they actually do list a lot of people who took classes in things like Communications, Maintenance Management, and Vehicle Maintenance decades before they did something as an example of how horrible the school is. Fact is the school is one of many like it, that offers training to US Allies and is the same thing taught to our own military. I have even attended similar courses in the US with military members from Norway, Canada, Jordan, and Iraq.

But the fact that a "source" that claims to be listing such individuals can only come up with about 55 of them. Of a school that has graduated over 60,000. That is what, less than 1 in 1,000?

I bet that the Los Angeles Unified School District has churned out more mass murderers than the SoA has.

Hell, I am not afraid that there will always be some that go bad. But to blame an entire school on the actions of what seems to be 1 in 1,000? I find it amazingly funny how many are so bigoted that they will stereotype an entire school and all of their graduates because some were bad. Hell, I can think of several murderers that got their training from the US Army and Marine Corps. Does that mean that those organizations train murderers?

And I bet that I even had the courage to admit these things, and actually took the effort to learn who some of them were. I bet he once again just issued blanket statements with nothing to back them up.
Click to expand...

Oh look, a whole bunch of meaningless excuses. Funny how you neglect to mention the litany of mass murders carried out by those whose training you so frantically attempt to downplay.

Furthermore, for every Galtieri or Banzer, there are a dozen middle ranking thugs who went right back to their countries and "just followed orders" to slaughter and rape their way across the countryside. Arguing that only the "famous" thugs did anything wrong is ridiculous....as is crying about "bigotry".
 
Dayton3 said:
How do you know that?

Iran came to the negotiating table to end the war with Iraq largely because the U.S. blew that Iranian airliner out of the sky.
Click to expand...

Because they weren't murdering "communists"; they were murdering innocent people, not combatants. Duh.

Gee bud, are you asserting that the US purposefully attacked a civilian airliner? You do realize that would be an act of state terrorism....right?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because they weren't murdering "communists"; they were murdering innocent people, not combatants. Duh.

Gee bud, are you asserting that the US purposefully attacked a civilian airliner? You do realize that would be an act of state terrorism....right?
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No it was an accident
 
Tigerace117 said:
\
You equated a deliberate genocide to the US' actions.

As an accident, it therefore is nor even remotely equivalent.
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You really don't get this stuff do you?

1) It was an accident.
2) But the Iranians always doubted that claim.
3) Thus Iran saw the killing of 290 Iranian civilians as an attempt by the U.S. to "send a message"
4) Iran got the message even though the U.S. never intended to send one.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Oh look, a whole bunch of meaningless excuses. Funny how you neglect to mention the litany of mass murders carried out by those whose training you so frantically attempt to downplay.
Click to expand...

Oh, look. Handwaving.... Wave a little harder and you may take flight.

Tigerace117 said:
Furthermore, for every Galtieri or Banzer, there are a dozen middle ranking thugs who went right back to their countries and "just followed orders" to slaughter and rape their way across the countryside. Arguing that only the "famous" thugs did anything wrong is ridiculous....as is crying about "bigotry".
Click to expand...

And who would give such orders?

The United States?
 
Fledermaus said:
I never "screamed".

I made mention of it as an example of Communism in action.

I never stated, inferred or implied it excused genocide.
Click to expand...
His mind fills in the blanks rather quickly with his imagination.
 
Dayton3 said:
You really don't get this stuff do you?

1) It was an accident.
2) But the Iranians always doubted that claim.
3) Thus Iran saw the killing of 290 Iranian civilians as an attempt by the U.S. to "send a message"
4) Iran got the message even though the U.S. never intended to send one.
Click to expand...

Gee. bud, if they "got that message"it would have only caused them to be more interested in killing Americans, since they would have believed the attack to be deliberate terrorism against them

Iran had been fighting a war against vicious invaders for eight years. The US blowing up an airliner was not what made them interested in peace.
 
The officers who the US trained gave the orders to exterminate the "communists", with the full encouragement and support of the United States.

That directly led to genocide in Guatemala, as has been throughly documented.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The officers who the US trained gave the orders to exterminate the "communists", with the full encouragement and support of the United States.

That directly led to genocide in Guatemala, as has been throughly documented.
Click to expand...

Who is that in response to?

It doesn't answer my question.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because I didn't feel I needed to include the same particular comment over and over? I can repeat it if it makes you feel better ;)

Amongst others, the school produced

  • Jorge Videla and his successor Leopold Galtieri of Argentina;
  • Hugo Banzer of Bolivia
  • Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador
  • The aforementioned Rios Montt of Guatemala
  • Raul Cedras of Haiti
  • Manuel Noriega of Panama
And those are just the guys who rose all the way to the top. Would you like to hear about the thugs who "only" ran the death squads next? They've got plenty more of those.

en.wikipedia.org

Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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Yes? Now- as another poster here often points out- what's the denominator?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Except, of course, for the fact that the Soviet Union had more than enough power to utterly smash anyone of those who’d “had enough” had its leaders been sufficiently ruthless.

Gee, probably because Reagan didn’t go up and admit that he was planning to fund a bunch of terrorists and genocidal tyrants with the funds in the first place.

There is no equivalence between Bernie Sanders and the president of the United States. Saying “but Sanders did X!” is not an excuse.
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You won't even say one word of condemnation against Bernie for jacking off to the USSR in it's prime. No ideological integrity at all is happening here, or any of your posts. Besides, you're quite fine with atrocities when it's the Palestinians doing it so, really, you're just super selective in what you condemn in the most stupid of ways.

On the subject of your OP, those are all things that should roundly be condemned but you act like Reagan was the only one doing some bullshit around the world, and that it hasn't been pretty standard for the US's absolutely atrocious foreign policy.

Hell, Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize while selling weapons and logistically supporting Saudi Arabia comit genocide in Yemen. Got anymore condemnation in there for that or is this just more of your bullshit?
 
Tigerace117 said:
Gee. bud, if they "got that message"it would have only caused them to be more interested in killing Americans, since they would have believed the attack to be deliberate terrorism against them

Iran had been fighting a war against vicious invaders for eight years. The US blowing up an airliner was not what made them interested in peace.
Click to expand...
In fact it did because the Iranians took the shooting down of the airliner to be emblematic of the United States leaning in favor of Iraq.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Oh yes, let's look at some of those "graduates".

Like General Luis Gomez of Argentina. Who attended the "Communications Course" and the "Radio Repair Course" in 1958. Or General Leopoldo Galtieri, who attended the Engineer Course in 1949.

Or Colonel Luis Gomez, of Bolivia, who in 1958 also attended the Communications and Radio Repair Courses. Of course, I noticed right away that this information is the exact same as one in Argentina, so I put part of this up to simply sloppy research.

Or General Hernan Rodriguez of Columbia. He attended a Maintenance course there in 1969 as a Lieutenant. Or Colonel Roberto Hernandez, who attended an automotive maintenance course there in 1970. And General Farouk Diaz, also a graduate of the SoA Automotive Course in 1969.

Or General Guillermo Rodriguez of Ecuador, who took a Maintenance Management course there in 1961.

In El Salvador you have Captain Roberto D'Aubuisson who took a course for Communications in 1972. Or Lieutenant Colonel Domingo Barrios, who attended a course for parachute riggers. Colonel Inocente Montano took a course for Engineer Officers in 1970.

Now granted, General Manuel Noriega took a great many courses there. However, the school was in his home country, and he was a high ranking officer in the Panamanian military so that should not be surprising at all.

Oh, and I am actually taking this information from the "SOA Watch" webpage, which lists 55 individuals who attended the SoA as "Notorious". I have actually followed that site for years, and always get a good chuckle out of them when they make changes.

And I find it funny that they actually do list a lot of people who took classes in things like Communications, Maintenance Management, and Vehicle Maintenance decades before they did something as an example of how horrible the school is. Fact is the school is one of many like it, that offers training to US Allies and is the same thing taught to our own military. I have even attended similar courses in the US with military members from Norway, Canada, Jordan, and Iraq.

But the fact that a "source" that claims to be listing such individuals can only come up with about 55 of them. Of a school that has graduated over 60,000. That is what, less than 1 in 1,000?

I bet that the Los Angeles Unified School District has churned out more mass murderers than the SoA has.

Hell, I am not afraid that there will always be some that go bad. But to blame an entire school on the actions of what seems to be 1 in 1,000? I find it amazingly funny how many are so bigoted that they will stereotype an entire school and all of their graduates because some were bad. Hell, I can think of several murderers that got their training from the US Army and Marine Corps. Does that mean that those organizations train murderers?


And I bet that I even had the courage to admit these things, and actually took the effort to learn who some of them were. I bet he once again just issued blanket statements with nothing to back them up.
Click to expand...

I trained dozens of people in the school I established in Grenada. If any of them went on to become a murderer, I suppose it would have been the fault of that school.

Except I don't remember including a poi on the topic of murder when I wrote the lesson plans.

Same way as an instructor training IET students at Knox. Nothing in the lesson plans there about murder either. Many of them written or corrected by me. Now, I did have a Saudi officer sit in on one my training cycles. Who knows what he might have went on to do? But whatever he went on to do, he didn't learn it from me or the course of instruction at Cav Branch.
 
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