Rape Does Not Justify Abortion. Or... [W:593]

[Henrin]

An actual RAPIST ought to have visitation rights? Is not a threat?


Holey @#$@# Henrin...

If they never come into contact there isn't any sort of threat present.

 

[iguanaman]

What utter nonsense.

I can't speak for all men, let alone all cultures, but as for myself my personal dislike of abortion has nothing to do with wishing to subjugate women. Nor does this theory account for women who are opposed to it.

Yet your beliefs say otherwise as they are consistent with those that do. Men are the ones writing the oppressive laws in the State legislatures too.

 

[RAMOSS]

If they never come into contact there isn't any sort of threat present.

Except, it's legal for them to do so, and to sue for visitation rights, and actual custody. Women who have been raped, and had their rapist's child are currently going through that very situation, as we type. It's not theoretical.. it's a matter of historical fact.

I do find your stance on this issue to be ironic, since it wasn't that long ago you were arguing that if a woman gave birth to a child, and the man didn't want that child, he should have the right to walk away and not be financially responsible for that child.

There seems to be a contradiction there.

 

[Goshin]

Yet your beliefs say otherwise as they are consistent with those that do. Men are the ones writing the oppressive laws in the State legislatures too.

If you think that, you didn't actually read what my beliefs were.

 

[Henrin]

Except, it's legal for them to do so, and to sue for visitation rights, and actual custody. Women who have been raped, and had their rapist's child are currently going through that very situation, as we type. It's not theoretical.. it's a matter of historical fact.

I do find your stance on this issue to be ironic, since it wasn't that long ago you were arguing that if a woman gave birth to a child, and the man didn't want that child, he should have the right to walk away and not be financially responsible for that child.

There seems to be a contradiction there.

How is there a contradiction between the two positions? While I can live with measures being taken to keep the victim safe I can not agree with removing a child's right to their biological parent because of something not done to the child. If the child and parent want to see each other they should have the right to do so.

 

[iguanaman]

You are, in effect, accusing an innocent child, who had no choice in the circumstances of his conception, of sexually-abusing his mother, of committing a crime comparable to the rape which she already endured; and on that basis, attempting to justify condemning that child to death.

Did you even think before you wrote that?

Not to mention the infringing of right of the man that raped her to spread his genes. That is what sex is about, Men spreading their genes. Women are just incidental in the process, their feelings don't matter.

 

[iguanaman]

How is there a contradiction between the two positions? While I can live with measures being taken to keep the victim safe I can not agree with removing a child's right to their biological parent because of something not done to the child. If the child and parent want to see each other they should have the right to do so.

In fact I think the rapist should be given full custody since it was his idea. Then he can raise him up to be just like daddy and we can give him a medal for "Father of the Year".

 

[iguanaman]

An actual RAPIST ought to have visitation rights? Is not a threat?


Holey @#$@# Henrin...

See what I mean? This is the company you keep.

 

[Goshin]

See what I mean? This is the company you keep.

No, it isn't. Again, you clearly didn't read the post in which I explained my views.

 

[Peter King]

One of the problems I have in posting in threads like this is that my position is not readily definable with a single phrase.

Personally I am very pro-life. I find abortion abhorrent and horrific. I've paid my dues to have that view too: 17 years as a single parent.

Socially I think it is a terrible thing for a society to accept that these innocent lives can be sacrificed for any reason or none.

Legally.... well, that gets a bit more sticky. I have three sisters and three nieces in a very tight family. I've seen what a woman goes through to carry a child to term, and it fills me with utmost respect, even reverence, for motherhood. We almost lost my middle niece when she gave birth to her first child, and it was terrifying.

Also I've known women who had been advised by their doctors that they should not get pregnant, because carrying a child to term would likely kill them. My best bud's first wife, for one.

Thus I am rather loathe to remove abortion from the list of options entirely, or to infringe too heavily upon the right of a woman to decide whether she wishes to take that risk, especially when there are known high-risk factors.

Yet at the same time I despise the very idea of abortion-for-convenience as last-ditch birth control.

I believe the unborn is a human life and must be respected as such. However I acknowledge that sometimes it is necessary to take human life, when other human life is at risk.

It also bothers me that the father has no legal say in whether an abortion occurs or not, but I will honestly admit I have no idea how to fix that without imposing heavily on the woman's rights so I generally leave it alone.


The upshot is I would prefer to see far fewer abortions occur in this nation, preferably through persuasion and enlightenment, and more careful use of available birth control resources, than by use of legal coercion, and through streamlining the adoption process.


Not sure what that makes me, label-wise.

A human being with a well thought through idea of whether you think abortion should be legal or illegal and when it should be legal and when it should be illegal.

And you are right, your personal opinion is that you are personally pro-life. I am personally pro-birth control and pro-limits to when abortion should be legal but as a political point of view I am pro-choice with strong opinions about to when abortion is desirable or acceptable. But as a whole I am not on this earth to determine what women can and cannot chose compared to their own body and what grows inside that body.

 

[JayDubya]

One human attacking you does not justify you killing a completely different human being, innocent of any wrongdoing your attacker perpetrated on you.

In fact, the homicide you would be committing is objectively worse. Rape victims can and most often do recover. Homicide victims are dead.

 

[Scrabaholic]

I can't believe anyone would advocate a rapist getting visitation or custody of the child he sired. Imagine what that would do to the child knowing that he/she was spending time with someone who violated his/her mother in such a vile, despicable way....

 

[Removable Mind]

I can't believe anyone would advocate a rapist getting visitation or custody of the child he sired. Imagine what that would do to the child knowing that he/she was spending time with someone who violated his/her mother in such a vile, despicable way....

It's hard to image there are as many who advocate for such. Evolution hasn't been as aggressive as it should have been. We're still way too primitive it appears.

 

[Peter King]

One human attacking you does not justify you killing a completely different human being, innocent of any wrongdoing your attacker perpetrated on you.

In fact, the homicide you would be committing is objectively worse. Rape victims can and most often do recover. Homicide victims are dead.

No, rape is multiple times worse than early abortion can ever be. You might be of the opinion that an embryo being aborted is worse than a woman being raped but to me that is total nonsense.

Raping a woman (or even a man) is much much much much worse than abortion and anyone with actual objectivity would know that so you comment that abortion is objectively worse is anything but objective, in fact it is subjective fairy tale telling.

 

[Henrin]

I can't believe anyone would advocate a rapist getting visitation or custody of the child he sired. Imagine what that would do to the child knowing that he/she was spending time with someone who violated his/her mother in such a vile, despicable way....

If the child doesn't want to see the man I see no reason the relationship between them should continue.

 

[year2late]

One human attacking you does not justify you killing a completely different human being, innocent of any wrongdoing your attacker perpetrated on you.

In fact, the homicide you would be committing is objectively worse. Rape victims can and most often do recover. Homicide victims are dead.

You have ABSOLUTELY NO FRIGGEN CLUE what a rape victim recovering means! No clue!

 

[Cardinal]

Visitation rights for the rapist. I thought I'd heard it all.

I thought forcing a rape victim to go to term was the perfect "**** you" to women, but nope, that definitely tops it.

 

[Removable Mind]

If the child doesn't want to see the man I see no reason the relationship between them should continue.

Henrin...you've made some astoundingly shallow comments, but this is one of most ridiculous comments ever. One would have to have the mind of a child to make such remark. I assume you aren't a child.

 

[year2late]

Visitation rights for the rapist. I thought I'd heard it all.

I thought forcing a rape victim to go to term was the perfect "**** you" to women, but nope, that definitely tops it.

I am ok with it. Once the child turns 18 and can make up his/her mind whether he wants to see the man who raped his mother.

Before them - I am disgusted that it is even issue.

 

[Cardinal]

While rape is one of the worst things someone can have done to them it does not excuse acting on parties that had nothing to do with it. I realize the mental and physical harm that rape causes,

No you don't.

 

[nota bene]

You have ABSOLUTELY NO FRIGGEN CLUE what a rape victim recovering means! No clue!

But I do...and twice over. And I agree with JayDubya: Rape is terrible, but the deliberate killing of another innocent being is worse.

 

[Henrin]

Henrin...you've made some astoundingly shallow comments, but this is one of most ridiculous comments ever. One would have to have the mind of a child to make such remark. I assume you aren't a child.

What? I'm not saying a small child, but more along the lines of a teenager. What's wrong with that?

 

[Henrin]

No you don't.

As someone that has been there for rape victims I think I have some idea.

 

[iguanaman]

One human attacking you does not justify you killing a completely different human being, innocent of any wrongdoing your attacker perpetrated on you.

In fact, the homicide you would be committing is objectively worse. Rape victims can and most often do recover. Homicide victims are dead.

Even that is scientifically wrong. The embryo resulting from rape contains the DNA of the rapist and is CLOSELY related to him. Only a real woman hater would want more rapists to be born but you are not one of those, right? It sounds like you think babies come from the stork.

 

[Henrin]

Even that is scientifically wrong. The embryo resulting from rape contains the DNA of the rapist and is CLOSELY related to him. Only a real woman hater would want more rapists to be born but you are not one of those, right? It sounds like you think babies come from the stork.

Being a rapist is not genetic.