Radical New Theory Could Kill the Multiverse Hypothesis

[the_recruit]

Radical New Theory Could Kill the Multiverse Hypothesis | Science | WIRED

Very bizarre. Much of this is admittedly above my paygrade. But what I do understand is that they're proposing that length and mass are a sort of emergent property. Much like temperature or viscosity. Temperature and viscosity are very real phenomena that we can measure and utilize, but these notions don't exist in any form in the atoms that make up the material that has a temperature or viscosity. An atom doesn't have a temperature. A molecule doesn't have a viscosity. These are emergent properties that don't exist within the constituent particles, but only come about through interactions and relationships among the constituent particles.

In the same way, these physicists are suggesting that mass and length perhaps do not exist at the most fundamental level. And that they merely emerge through certain interactions of particles. Physicsts already understood this somewhat regarding mass - the Higgs field and its Higgs Boson provide an explanation for the mechanism that "gives" most particles their mass. But length too?

While incredibly bizarre, I can see some merit to the idea. If space and mass are generated in this way it's not as difficult to understand why we see a relationship between mass and space, why we see lengths being stretched and bent by mass as Einstein realized.

 

[grip]

Radical New Theory Could Kill the Multiverse Hypothesis | Science | WIRED

Very bizarre. Much of this is admittedly above my paygrade. But what I do understand is that they're proposing that length and mass are a sort of emergent property. Much like temperature or viscosity. Temperature and viscosity are very real phenomena that we can measure and utilize, but these notions don't exist in any form in the atoms that make up the material that has a temperature or viscosity. An atom doesn't have a temperature. A molecule doesn't have a viscosity. These are emergent properties that don't exist within the constituent particles, but only come about through interactions and relationships among the constituent particles.

In the same way, these physicists are suggesting that mass and length perhaps do not exist at the most fundamental level. And that they merely emerge through certain interactions of particles. Physicsts already understood this somewhat regarding mass - the Higgs field and its Higgs Boson provide an explanation for the mechanism that "gives" most particles their mass. But length too?

While incredibly bizarre, I can see some merit to the idea. If space and mass are generated in this way it's not as difficult to understand why we see a relationship between mass and space, why we see lengths being stretched and bent by mass as Einstein realized.

I just read a paper by Roger Penrose and some neuroscientist stating that quantum consciousness arises from a dimensional/ wave function. It sounds very similar to mass and space being a concept of scale symmetry or dimensional awareness and the semi-illusionary aspect of quantum wave/ particle duality theory.

I often held my own theory that the universe is a mass of energy, like a large computer program that takes its current shape, size and reality from our perception and interaction of it. Not that it doesn't exist as we perceive or hasn't preexisted biological life, simply that it's not quite what we think it is from our limited conscious image.
The senses create a method of perceiving the universe/nature that without do not exist. The potential and energy of nature can exist without conscious perception but not in the same form. Without life there is no hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling or touch and though you can say that doesn't matter because those properties are still preeminent in its design, it actually does in the concept that without the senses and brain, it's literally not the same reality.

Consciousness might be a part of nature that exists at a very basic quantum level (pervasive energy field) and may be connected to particles in an unseen way.

 

[rhinefire]

Maybe I heard this wrong but watching a program recently I believe it was said the space between objects in the universe is increasing while the distance between the objects is not. I know the universe is expanding but if i heard that right I am stumped.

 

[Tim the plumber]

High level physics is bad for your head.

Fascinating, but bad.

 

[CriticalThought]

Maybe I heard this wrong but watching a program recently I believe it was said the space between objects in the universe is increasing while the distance between the objects is not. I know the universe is expanding but if i heard that right I am stumped.

Space is increasing at an accelerating rate. It is like throwing an apple in the air and instead of coming down it continues to go up faster and faster. Scientists believe dark matter is the force pushing things apart as the universe expands.

 

[DDD]

Space is increasing at an accelerating rate. It is like throwing an apple in the air and instead of coming down it continues to go up faster and faster. Scientists believe dark matter is the force pushing things apart as the universe expands.

Now according to this theory dark matter too does not exists. It is an "emergent property" also.

 

[the_recruit]

Maybe I heard this wrong but watching a program recently I believe it was said the space between objects in the universe is increasing while the distance between the objects is not. I know the universe is expanding but if i heard that right I am stumped.

What they mean is that although space is expanding everywhere the distance between objects won't necessarily increase if there is a force holding the two objects together. For example, the distance between the earth and the sun isn't increasing because there is a force - gravity - holding the earth at a particular distance from the sun, even though the space between us is expanding.

Imagine a dinner table that's expanding, stretching in both directions. As the table cloth expands it will carry all the plates and dishes sitting on top of it with it. So all the dishes will start to move away from each other. But not if you have a chain or something tying two of the plates together. They will only move as far apart as the chain allows.

 

[blarg]

Space is increasing at an accelerating rate. It is like throwing an apple in the air and instead of coming down it continues to go up faster and faster. Scientists believe dark matter is the force pushing things apart as the universe expands.

isn't that dark energy? (as if i understood either 1 myself ha )

 

[Northern Light]

Watching humans try to define the universe is like watching an ant hill try to define the forest.

 

[rhinefire]

Watching humans try to define the universe is like watching an ant hill try to define the forest.

I agree but tell that to a scientist. I love listening to those super brains discuss theories. Bringing it down to high school level, look at that Hadron collider, that incredible massive machine does nothing but super accelerate particles to crash in to each other head on and in doing so they hope to unlock the secrets of creation! Beats me!

 

[TNAR]

In the same way, these physicists are suggesting that mass and length perhaps do not exist at the most fundamental level.

Same goes for the states of matter: solid, liquid, gas, plasma. They are all the result of interactions between multiple particles and conditions. Creepy stuff.

 

[Hicup]

Space is increasing at an accelerating rate. It is like throwing an apple in the air and instead of coming down it continues to go up faster and faster. Scientists believe dark matter is the force pushing things apart as the universe expands.

You have it backwards, dark matter is hypothesized to be responsible for keeping things together, conversely, dark energy is hypothesized to be responsible for the increase in the universes expansion. Think of it this way. The universe is not slowing down in its expansion, reason? Dark energy, which really means we don't know what it is but it must be very energetic. Dark Matter, on the other hand is tugging at the fabric of space and time keeping dark energy in check by making it work harder and harder to maintain the integrity of the matter itself. If the universe was a deep ocean, then all the matter would be in the water. Outside of that matter would be something similar to the atmospheric pressure we observe on Earth. This constitutes (visually) what and how dark energy might interact with dark matter. The dark energy is kept in check by the "work" needed to keep the dark matter in a solid, non-energetic state, the deeper the ocean, the more densely packed the matter, HOWEVER, it gets really tricky because like any deep ocean, the closer you are to the surface, the least amount of "pressure" is exerted on the matter and how much or less energy is imposed upon it. Dark energy essentially keeps all the matter in the universe from clumping together in one huge chunk of matter, not by pushing the matter apart, but by increasing the space between the matter. What we see as normal observable matter is the stuff on the surface, what we consider dark matter is all that stuff in the depths of the ocean.

So, to illustrate more effectively, we (as in the Earth, the Sun and the Stars, galaxies) are literally on the surface of the water, but there's a whole lot going on within and without our realm, and the perception of the totality of the universe that allows us to ask these very questions.


Tim-

 

[Threegoofs]

I dont know if this theory holds any weight at all, but it does satisfy the one requirement that I *know* is going to be involved in the deep understanding of the universe.

Its gonna be really weird, really hard to comprehend, and unbelievable.