Racism And Traffic Stops

[mac]

when you raised the question you were still in the process of denying any cultural element...

I've never denied a cultural element, I've been trying to point out the reason for that cultural element.

So, for lord knows how many times: How do YOU feel about the police?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I've never denied a cultural element, I've been trying to point out the reason for that cultural element.

So, for lord knows how many times: How do YOU feel about the police?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-and-order/139311-racism-and-traffic-stops-37.html#post1061045113

 

[Panopticon]

You well-know what becomes of communities who have lost faith in their cops.

Its a well known political science fact that groups that lose faith in state protection is a very hazardous event. Large enough groups that lose faith cause failed states and is epidemic of the political problems in failed states in africa. Romas are a group that are rewarded unequal state protection and thus are by now in a state of social conflict with the states of even the most stable countries. The italian states refusal to offer sicilians equal protection created the mafia. etc. etc. etc.

 

[mac]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-and-order/139311-racism-and-traffic-stops-37.html#post1061045113

Ok, so, to clarify: YOU think cops are there to serve and protect people that can afford lawyers, and to kick the **** out of people that can't. Right?

 

[lpast]

And such cops do their brother cops as well as their communities a dreadful injury, which was my point, several pages ago when I wrote the Op.

There are different degrees and categories of bad cop...many of which do not impact the community whatsoever

 

[lpast]

So, you believe they're there to serve and protect despite knowing there are bad police officers that are not there to do that?

Mac, there are bad lawyers but the good lawyers still practice law...there are bad doctors and the good drs keep practicing medicine...there are bad roofers but the good roofers keep roofing....what is your point ?

 

[Pinkie]

Mac, there are bad lawyers but the good lawyers still practice law...there are bad doctors and the good drs keep practicing medicine...there are bad roofers but the good roofers keep roofing....what is your point ?

Actually, there's no camaraderie among lawyers, lpast. I realize there has to be such for cops.

 

[mac]

Mac, there are bad lawyers but the good lawyers still practice law...there are bad doctors and the good drs keep practicing medicine...there are bad roofers but the good roofers keep roofing....what is your point ?

My point is that despite knowing (perhaps even personally) that there are bad cops lacking the "best of intentions" that you have face in the police force.

Do you think that those cops that act poorly towards blacks (over the last 100) years haven't left the impression in the black community that even though there are some good cops, that the police force exists to kick the **** out of us?

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

Ok, so, to clarify: YOU think cops are there to serve and protect people that can afford lawyers, and to kick the **** out of people that can't. Right?

lol, you have to be kidding. Just read the ****ing post

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

My point is that despite knowing (perhaps even personally) that there are bad cops lacking the "best of intentions" that you have face in the police force.

Do you think that those cops that act poorly towards blacks (over the last 100) years haven't left the impression in the black community that even though there are some good cops, that the police force exists to kick the **** out of us?

erm, you have been the one denying any cultural connection here, and what you describe above would be a "cultural" view. I suggest that in the future, as opposed to fishing for racism accusations, that you first consider you might know jack all about what you seem intent on arguing about

 

[lpast]

Actually, there's no camaraderie among lawyers, lpast. I realize there has to be such for cops.

I agree totally with you...Lawyers are always in competition with each other in one form or another and they dont trust each other lol...

 

[lpast]

My point is that despite knowing (perhaps even personally) that there are bad cops lacking the "best of intentions" that you have face in the police force.

Do you think that those cops that act poorly towards blacks (over the last 100) years haven't left the impression in the black community that even though there are some good cops, that the police force exists to kick the **** out of us?

Im sure they have...but im going to tell you something mac, man up...and I wont back from this statement one inch...for every black in the black community that had a bad experience with a cop...there are untold numbers that had good experiences and NEED US and WANT US AROUND even though they have to act just the opposite to belong and get along.....I dont pay one bit of attention when I see a group of blacks on the news vilifying the police...because I KNOW that 80% of them minimum dont have that in their heart.
Mac like this true statement or not...decent good blacks are the number one prey of the bad ones, trust that the black community fears them far more than the police.

 

[mac]

erm, you have been the one denying any cultural connection here, and what you describe above would be a "cultural" view. I suggest that in the future, as opposed to fishing for racism accusations, that you first consider you might know jack all about what you seem intent on arguing about

I didn't deny any cultural connection. What I have been pointing out to you (attempting to point out to you) is that culture is not the root. Culture is affected it, it is not static. It doesn't exist irrespective of influence.

I suggest in the future, you learn what culture is, and where it comes from.

 

[mac]

lol, you have to be kidding. Just read the ****ing post

I did. That's what I got from it. You really don't like answering questions directly, do you? Are you sure you aren't a flaming liberal? Unless you provide a direct answer to the question, I'm going to have to interpret your innuendo.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I didn't deny any cultural connection. What I have been pointing out to you (attempting to point out to you) is that culture is not the root. Culture is affected it, it is not static. It doesn't exist irrespective of influence.

I suggest in the future, you learn what culture is, and where it comes from.

1) every time I pointed to some cultural aspect, you asserted addressing the economic issues would address it, when data indicates otherwise

2) You asserted it was economic, not cultural. And while you would have been right saying these cultural attitudes were shaped by economics partially (they also have been shaped by many other things), that wasn't the argument you originally made

3) I never asserted culture was the root cause: if you took the time to read what you were responding to you would not be making this strawman

4) I also never claimed culture was static. In fact, I asserted the exact opposite.

 

[Dr. Chuckles]

I did. That's what I got from it. You really don't like answering questions directly, do you? Are you sure you aren't a flaming liberal? Unless you provide a direct answer to the question, I'm going to have to interpret your innuendo.

the answer is pretty direct: that cops (collectively) will likely abuse their power if given the opportunity. It's not very cryptic, nor really needing of interpretation

 

[mac]

Im sure they have...but im going to tell you something mac, man up...and I wont back from this statement one inch...for every black in the black community that had a bad experience with a cop...there are untold numbers that had good experiences and NEED US and WANT US AROUND even though they have to act just the opposite to belong and get along.....I dont pay one bit of attention when I see a group of blacks on the news vilifying the police...because I KNOW that 80% of them minimum dont have that in their heart.

You have, then, far less understanding of the black community than you think. Those people that you think need you and want you around don't trust you. That is a statement I won't back away from one inch.

Mac like this true statement or not...decent good blacks are the number one prey of the bad ones, trust that the black community fears them far more than the police.

See, this is how we differ. I think there are far more "decent good blacks" then you do. I don't think even those that commit crimes are necessarily "not decent, bad blacks." And yet, we still have a problem in the black community. Why is that? I'll tell you...the poverty cycle.

 

[mac]

the answer is pretty direct: that cops (collectively) will likely abuse their power if given the opportunity. It's not very cryptic, nor really needing of interpretation

You think blacks don't know that it's easier for cops to "abuse their power" in regards to them than to whites? Don't you think that would make them a little defensive around cops?

 

[mac]

1) every time I pointed to some cultural aspect, you asserted addressing the economic issues would address it, when data indicates otherwise

Show me data that "indicates otherwise".

2) You asserted it was economic, not cultural. And while you would have been right saying these cultural attitudes were shaped by economics partially (they also have been shaped by many other things), that wasn't the argument you originally made

No, I asserted that economics caused the cultural differences.

3) I never asserted culture was the root cause: if you took the time to read what you were responding to you would not be making this strawman

Then why do you refuse to observe the influences on American black culture?

4) I also never claimed culture was static. In fact, I asserted the exact opposite.

yet fail to recognize the impact of economics on culture...

 

[lpast]

You have, then, far less understanding of the black community than you think. Those people that you think need you and want you around don't trust you. That is a statement I won't back away from one inch.



See, this is how we differ. I think there are far more "decent good blacks" then you do. I don't think even those that commit crimes are necessarily "not decent, bad blacks." And yet, we still have a problem in the black community. Why is that? I'll tell you...the poverty cycle.

Your wrong mac but Im not going to try to change your mind...I know differently....the poverty cycle is overridden by fear...just know that many blacks act one way and feel another...you completely by passed my statement that the majority of good black people are the number one prey of the bad ones.....

 

[Caine]

My point is that despite knowing (perhaps even personally) that there are bad cops lacking the "best of intentions" that you have face in the police force.

Do you think that those cops that act poorly towards blacks (over the last 100) years haven't left the impression in the black community that even though there are some good cops, that the police force exists to kick the **** out of us?

Cops are equal opportunity ass kickers.......
Fight them... and they will kick your ass.

 

[mac]

Cops are equal opportunity ass kickers.......
Fight them... and they will kick your ass.

You're not even trying, at this point.

 

[Caine]

I didn't deny any cultural connection. What I have been pointing out to you (attempting to point out to you) is that culture is not the root. Culture is affected it, it is not static. It doesn't exist irrespective of influence.

I suggest in the future, you learn what culture is, and where it comes from.

Sure it is large part of the root.

The anti-intellectual aspect of the culture prevents many from leaving poverty...

 

[mac]

Your wrong mac but Im not going to try to change your mind...I know differently....the poverty cycle is overridden by fear...just know that many blacks act one way and feel another...you completely by passed my statement that the majority of good black people are the number one prey of the bad ones.....

and you fail to understand why.

 

[Caine]

You think blacks don't know that it's easier for cops to "abuse their power" in regards to them than to whites? Don't you think that would make them a little defensive around cops?

Its all in your head.