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Question for Christians

kal-el

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It seems the stories of Osiris and Mithras are scaringly similar to Jesus's. Why should anyone believe the carpenter's and not others?

Besides the fact that the Christian savior man-god, Jesus, shares the same birthday, the winter solstice, with many pagan savior man-gods, there are many other parallels between Christianity and paganism.

These are some aspects of the Jesus myth that appeared earlier in pagan mythologies:

* The savior is god made flesh, as the son of god.
* His father is god and his mother is a mortal virgin.
* He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on December 25 before three shepherds.
* He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.
* He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.
* He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.
* He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
* After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.
* His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.
* His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.

In fact, pagan sun god celebrations proved too popular for early Christians to overcome. Therefore, they decided to superimpose their story of Jesus (which contained many pagan elements anyway) onto the sun god festivals of the winter solstice (Christmas) and the spring equinox (Easter).
http://www.mnatheists.org/articles/atheism/solstice_savior_gods.htm
http://www.thegodmovie.com/pagan/
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/PaganChrists_Isis_and_osiris.html
 

tecoyah

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kal-el

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tecoyah said:
Shhhhh.....we dont really want them to get pissed at us again.....it wasn't at all pleasant last time.
I am not worried about their emotions. They like to say god is omnipresent, right? Then where the hell do they get off acting like his spokespeople?
 

steen

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Well, as a non-fundie Christian, I would recommend looking at the message rather than the "accuracy" of the story.

I know the fundies get all bent out of shape regarding how the Bible must be a historically accurate science textbook, thus missing that the point is the message. Such complicated lives they live, having to deny reality for translation errors and poor perception.
 

George_Washington

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It is kind of interesting how the progression of religion is based on previous beliefs. I think the question you should ask yourself, kal-el, is that if you were a god, would you introduce something totally foreign to people or would you build on previously established concepts, thereby generating a harmony with all beliefs?
 

kal-el

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George_Washington said:
It is kind of interesting how the progression of religion is based on previous beliefs. I think the question you should ask yourself, kal-el, is that if you were a god, would you introduce something totally foreign to people or would you build on previously established concepts, thereby generating a harmony with all beliefs?
Dude, I think the question Christians need to ask themselves is why is Christianity plagarized from Paganism and Egytpian religions?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-Death-Rebirth_Deity

And, it seems Jesus was just a mere replica of the Egyptian god Horus. IMO Jesus was simply a man-made diety. His stories are most likely from the Jews prior to being exiled. http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm
 

Red-Phase

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kal-el said:
It seems the stories of egyptian symbol of satan Osiris and Mithras are scaringly similar to Jesus's. Why should anyone believe the carpenter's and not others?I don't know what carpenter your talking about? Are you talking about mario fron Donkey Kong on Atari 2600?



http://www.mnatheists.org/articles/atheism/solstice_savior_gods.htm
http://www.thegodmovie.com/pagan/
http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/PaganChrists_Isis_and_osiris.html
Besides the fact that the Christian savior man-god, Jesus, shares the same birthday, the winter solstice, with many pagan savior man-gods, there are many other parallels between Christianity and paganism.

These are some aspects of the Jesus myth that appeared earlier in pagan mythologies:

* The savior is god made flesh, as the son of god.he was always the son of God even before he was on earth.
* His father is god and his mother is a mortal virgin.correct
* He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on December 25 before three shepherds.No the roman catholics created that holiday.
* He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.Incorrect. We are born agian through the blood of Jesus Christ.We are then baptised in the Holy Spirit and made a new creation.
* He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.Correct
* He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.Yes because ancient israel had different customs than 19-21 centery western societies...
* He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.The roman catholics made that holiday
* After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.Yes because God can raise his son from the dead because God is all-powerful.
* His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.Correct
* His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.only roman catholics made a "ritual" out of it.

In fact, pagan sun god celebrations proved too popular for early Christians to overcome. Therefore, they decided to superimpose their Reality of Jesus (which contained many pagan elements anyway)onto the sun god festivals of the winter solstice created by the pagan roman catholics (Christmas) and the spring equinox read the last bolded text (Easter).

The Pagan romans made a lot of pagan holidays and customs.Thier Pagan society still had alot of the occult in it
even when constantine came in tried to change the bible and implant occult doctrines and ideal into christianity.Do you know that papastry when back as far as babylon.Why does the "pope" wear a cursed dagon priest miter?

So stop acting like roman catholic pagan holidays and rituals pertian to christianity.Because they don't.

The King James Bible was accurately translated I read that.Christianity does not omit parts of the word of God.


Sorry your issue is with roman catholism's pagan doctrines NOT the bible.

You phail at a smear campiegn.
 

Red-Phase

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kal-el said:
I am not worried about their emotions. They like to say god is omnipresent, right? Then where the hell do they get off acting like his spokespeople?
We the hell do you get off bashing the bible.

why don't you pick on the qu'ran or the torah.
 

Engimo

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Red-Phase said:
Besides the fact that the Christian savior man-god, Jesus, shares the same birthday, the winter solstice, with many pagan savior man-gods, there are many other parallels between Christianity and paganism.

These are some aspects of the Jesus myth that appeared earlier in pagan mythologies:

* The savior is god made flesh, as the son of god.he was always the son of God even before he was on earth.
* His father is god and his mother is a mortal virgin.correct
* He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on December 25 before three shepherds.No the roman catholics created that holiday.
* He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.Incorrect. We are born agian through the blood of Jesus Christ.We are then baptised in the Holy Spirit and made a new creation.
* He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.Correct
* He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.Yes because ancient israel had different customs than 19-21 centery western societies...
* He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.The roman catholics made that holiday

* After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.Yes because God can raise his son from the dead because God is all-powerful.
* His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.Correct
* His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.only roman catholics made a "ritual" out of it.

The Pagan romans made a lot of pagan holidays and customs.Thier Pagan society still had alot of the occult in it
even when constantine came in tried to change the bible and implant occult doctrines and ideal into christianity.Do you know that papastry when back as far as babylon.Why does the "pope" wear a cursed dagon priest miter?

So stop acting like roman catholic pagan holidays and rituals pertian to christianity.Because they don't.

The King James Bible was accurately translated I read that.Christianity does not omit parts of the word of God.


Sorry your issue is with roman catholism's pagan doctrines NOT the bible.

You phail at a smear campiegn.
"pa·gan (p?'g?n) n.
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan."

You "phail" at the Knowledge of The Meaning of Words "campiegn". Catholics are not pagans, by any stretch of the imagination.
 

Red-Phase

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Engimo said:
"pa·gan (p?'g?n) n.
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan."

You "phail" at the Knowledge of The Meaning of Words "campiegn". Catholics are not pagans, by any stretch of the imagination.
catholics ARE pagan...

http://www.biblelight.net/dagon.htm

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/index_4.htm

http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/rc_intro.htm

It is a counterfiet christianity.

read up....
 
Last edited:

Red-Phase

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Engimo said:
That's cool, but they still don't fall under the definition of "pagan".
ok. How about a pagan religion pretending to christian and ran by the illuminati/high level magick preists/freemasons.
 

Comrade Brian

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Red-Phase said:
We the hell do you get off bashing the bible.

why don't you pick on the qu'ran or the torah.
uummmmmmmmmmmm........... Because he can. Also its because most religous people on this forum are christain, so there is someone to argue with, if he did the Torah, or Qu'ran, nobody would challenge that probably.
 

Red-Phase

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Comrade Brian said:
uummmmmmmmmmmm........... Because he can. Also its because most religous people on this forum are christain, so there is someone to argue with, if he did the Torah, or Qu'ran, nobody would challenge that probably.
fair enough...
 

laska

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The easy solution to this is that the religion of Adam and Eve was Judaism pre-messiah that taught all of this, that the Son of God would be born of virgin and atone for the sins of the world at a later date in history. This is why Adam and Eve and all the patriarchs sacraficed the first born male lamb without blemish. The reason why aspects of this story can be found in many ancient cultures would be because they are apostate forms from the original, pure teachings taught from the very beginning.

Neither the ancient patriarchs nor early Christianity when they had prophets and revelation established Christmas as the birthday of Christ.
 

kal-el

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steen said:
Well, as a non-fundie Christian, I would recommend looking at the message rather than the "accuracy" of the story.

I know the fundies get all bent out of shape regarding how the Bible must be a historically accurate science textbook, thus missing that the point is the message. Such complicated lives they live, having to deny reality for translation errors and poor perception.
steen, since you are well-versed on the sciences, do you buy into the god of the bible? I could accept that a god exists, but I deny the god of the bible for a couple reasons: 1) The god of the bible is depicted as having emotions, making mistakes, and being limited in his "omnipotence". 2) I would think that limits are totally incompatible with "omnipotence". 3) And the god of the bible is depicted as being "omnipotent, hence can't exist.
 

kal-el

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Red-Phase said:
We the hell do you get off bashing the bible.
I think to a rational person reading it, it does an excellent job bashing itself.:lol:

why don't you pick on the qu'ran or the torah.
Actually, like Comrad said, there aren't enough people familiar with the Koran or the Torah on this board, hence no discussion. But almost everyone is familiar with the bible.
 

kal-el

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Red-Phase said:
Besides the fact that the Christian savior man-god, Jesus, shares the same birthday, the winter solstice, with many pagan savior man-gods, there are many other parallels between Christianity and paganism.
Really? http://www.tolueislam.com/Bazm/Joommal/ASK_3_1.htm

These are some aspects of the Jesus myth that appeared earlier in pagan mythologies:

* The savior is god made flesh, as the son of god.he was always the son of God even before he was on earth.
* His father is god and his mother is a mortal virgin.correct
* He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on December 25 before three shepherds.No the roman catholics created that holiday.
* He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.Incorrect. We are born agian through the blood of Jesus Christ.We are then baptised in the Holy Spirit and made a new creation.
* He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.Correct
* He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.Yes because ancient israel had different customs than 19-21 centery western societies...
* He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.The roman catholics made that holiday
* After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.Yes because God can raise his son from the dead because God is all-powerful.
* His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.Correct
* His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.only roman catholics made a "ritual" out of it.

In fact, pagan sun god celebrations proved too popular for early Christians to overcome. Therefore, they decided to superimpose their Reality of Jesus (which contained many pagan elements anyway)onto the sun god festivals of the winter solstice created by the pagan roman catholics (Christmas) and the spring equinox read the last bolded text (Easter).

The Pagan romans made a lot of pagan holidays and customs.Thier Pagan society still had alot of the occult in it
even when constantine came in tried to change the bible and implant occult doctrines and ideal into christianity.Do you know that papastry when back as far as babylon.Why does the "pope" wear a cursed dagon priest miter?

So stop acting like roman catholic pagan holidays and rituals pertian to christianity.Because they don't.
Sure, Roman Catholism "borrowed" alot of Pagan rituals, I'm not denying that, but Christianity isn't all original. http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ct_babylon.html

The King James Bible was accurately translated I read that.
Great! I'll giver ya a hi-5 for that!:lol:

Christianity does not omit parts of the word of God.
No, but the bible does in fact depict him as a pshyco mass murderer, emotional insecure, violent diety, who has a 2,000 page book written about himself because of self-confidense issues, hence he needs to be worshipped, I guess.:lol:

Sorry your issue is with roman catholism's pagan doctrines NOT the bible.
Look, roman catholism may have correlations to paganism, but a lot of those adaptations were the same scenario as the Christmas tree, Christians changing pagan rituals to Christian rituals. For example, Christmas. The Bible is not clear on the true date of Jesus' birth. In the early 4th century, Christians picked the date to be on the birth of a certain pagan sun god, Dec. 25. Same situation for the sabbath being on sunday. The idea of a resurrecting savior is not a hard idea to come up with, its not something that would seem out of the ordinary in fantasy literature or myth.

You phail at a smear campiegn.
What? You men "fail". Do youself a favor, and before posting more, read up a bit more on this stuff so you don't seem so stupid, thanks.
 

Stace

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Red-Phase said:
ok. How about a pagan religion pretending to christian and ran by the illuminati/high level magick preists/freemasons.
What in the world are you talking about???? I think you've been paying too much attention to The DaVinci Code....it's an excellent novel, but come on now....:lol:
 
H

hipsterdufus

Comrade Brian said:
uummmmmmmmmmmm........... Because he can. Also its because most religous people on this forum are christain, so there is someone to argue with, if he did the Torah, or Qu'ran, nobody would challenge that probably.
One point I would like to make is while there are many moderate Christians, the same really cannot be said for most Muslims. Even Moderate approaches to Islam see the Koran as the one true word of God. On almost every page of the Koran, Muslims are encouraged to despise nonbelievers. There is a scary link between Muslim faith and Muslim violence. The men that crashed the planes into the WTC on 9/11 weren't cowards, or lunatics, as the West likes to describe them. In actuality they were men of perfect faith according to the tenets of their faith.

It reminds me of the Inquisition...
 

kal-el

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hipsterdufus said:
There is a scary link between Muslim faith and Muslim violence. The men that crashed the planes into the WTC on 9/11 weren't cowards, or lunatics, as the West likes to describe them. In actuality they were men of perfect faith according to the tenets of their faith.
Yep. Add to the fact that these weren't ignoramuses. A moron can't pull off an operation like that. They took years of training, and extensive research to pull that off.
 

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Just when Muslim bashing time starts, let me remind you that these men were religious fanatics, just like the Christian Phalangists who murdered Muslims in that massacre in Lebanon.
 

steen

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kal-el said:
steen, since you are well-versed on the sciences, do you buy into the god of the bible? I could accept that a god exists, but I deny the god of the bible for a couple reasons: 1) The god of the bible is depicted as having emotions, making mistakes, and being limited in his "omnipotence". 2) I would think that limits are totally incompatible with "omnipotence". 3) And the god of the bible is depicted as being "omnipotent, hence can't exist.
Hehe. You have listened to much to fundie literalists.

God is a message to us about why and how to live our lives. Actual events, or even a physical existence of God is irrelevant to the message. The reason for worshipping God is to live the message. So literal issues such as "omnipotence," physical existence in emotions and such are not even my concern.

Whether God build the Universe in 6 days or it came through per the Big banfg is irrelevant to the message. The bible is there for us to get the message of our lives. Jesus is the way the message is driven home (Ignoring the coup d'etas of the interloper paul who used the new religion for his own punitive, hate mongering purposes).

To me, asking if God is omnipotent enough to create the universe is as irrelevant as most of the creationists claims regarding the sciences. God is not about the physical world at all.

(So you can see why I find the fundie literalists' arguments about religion to be irrelevant and the non-Christian arguments as an argument against the literalists rather than against God. That's probably why I get so well along with Atheists a.o. :cool: Most of the time, I agree with them )
 

steen

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hipsterdufus said:
One point I would like to make is while there are many moderate Christians, the same really cannot be said for most Muslims.
Sure it can.
Even Moderate approaches to Islam see the Koran as the one true word of God.
Like even moderate approaches to Christianit see the Bible as the one true word of God.
On almost every page of the Koran, Muslims are encouraged to despise nonbelievers.
nope.
There is a scary link between Muslim faith and Muslim violence.
Like there is a scary link between Christian faith and Christian violence.
The men that crashed the planes into the WTC on 9/11 weren't cowards, or lunatics, as the West likes to describe them. In actuality they were men of perfect faith according to the tenets of their faith.
Like these guys:
http://www.armyofgod.com/heroes.html
It reminds me of the Inquisition...
Pat Robertson sure does, as does the 700 Club, yes.
 
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