• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Query for the not-so-keen on guns...

A few facts to enhance the conversation. There were 1.2 million reported violent crimes in 2018. While at the same time about 13,000 people were murdered by guns. I bring this up because the same people who say those who own guns have an illogical fear of being a victim while they are justified at being afraid of firearms. Using this data it shows you are nearly 100 times more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a victim of gun murder.

What these statistics do not show you is that even thought no one is totally safe, some neighborhoods are much more dangerous. I pulled up the most violent neighborhoods in Chicago. Here is a sample of what I found.

Englewood has been ranked as the fourth-worst neighborhood in Chicago. The average income per year is $20,000 and according to government statistics, a family of our needs a minimum of $25,000 to survive and remain above the poverty line. This neighborhood is located at the south end of Chicago. It is 264% higher than the national crime rate. There's is also a 1 in 11 chance of encountering a violent crime. It is safe to walk alone in the daytime but walking alone at right is extremely dangerous.

This is only the 4th worse neighborhood in Chicago. This article also only addresses violent crime. If your chances of being a victim of violent crime are 1 in 11, what do you think your chances of being the victim of other types of crimes are? You can bet it is close to 100%. This is why you will find that nearly everyone in this neighborhood is armed. The facts show the police can not control the crime in neighborhoods like this. The people are forced to protect themselves.
 
Chillfolks said:
I lost the bikini top on lady chills jeep one year headed home from the beach. Needless to say I wasn't allowed to drive that car agian.
Click to expand...

Lady Bum is a Jeep lover ; She will only use my RAM when she needs to move large loads.....needless to say, I have to ask nicely to use the Jeep ( I paid for) when I dont want to take the RAM out.

Her toy.....not mine. ;)
 
Bum said:
Lady Bum is a Jeep lover ; She will only use my RAM when she needs to move large loads.....needless to say, I have to ask nicely to use the Jeep ( I paid for) when I dont want to take the RAM out.

Her toy.....not mine. ;)
Click to expand...
A drunk kid totalled Lady Chills Jeep. Thankfully we were not in it. Kid full of liquid courage showing off in a parking lot lost control of his vehicle.
 
Glad no one was hurt.
 
Goshin said:
I'd like to discuss something, mainly with those who are less than enthused about guns/weapons and do not put a high priority on armed self-defense.

This is not bait or a "gotcha" thread... I'm genuinely interested in better understanding your perspective.

I've noticed it is often the case, in debates between those who carry a gun daily and are highly security-conscious (such as myself), and those who lean more towards the other side of the fence, a disagreement centered on "fear".

It usually goes something like this:

Gun Guy says I carry everyday, I'm always conscious of my surroundings and mentally prepared.

Other Side says You live in fear. I don't want to live in fear, it's not worth it, and our society isn't that dangerous.

Gun Guy: I don't live in fear. I am confident in my ability to protect myself, so I just do what I do; what is this fear you speak of?

*********

Now I've been wondering if perhaps we (the two sides, or spectrum-curves if you prefer) are misunderstanding each other entirely over this word "fear", and the phrase, "to live in fear".

My side tends to respond as if we're being accused of the emotion of fearfulness, or of being in a state of anxiety over the possibility of being attacked, and say that No, our preparedness makes us confident, not fearful.

But perhaps that isn't what you mean?

Perhaps you're referring to the entire mindset, regardless of any emotional content or lack thereof; the whole enchilada (as it were) of being mentally prepared and equipped to deal with violence should it come your way. Perhaps you mean that is a lifestyle and mindset you want no part of, regardless of whether the emotion of fear is involved.

Would anyone from the other side of the aisle like to present their thoughts on this? I would be interested to hear them.

Let's keep this civil please... I'm hoping for a discussion, rather than a lowest-common-denominator shouting match.
Click to expand...
I have a HCP. However, picking up a weapon, knowing its potential, it scares me. I know, rights and all that, but yeah, too many people take this too lightly.
 
Lovebug said:
I have a HCP. However, picking up a weapon, knowing its potential, it scares me. I know, rights and all that, but yeah, too many people take this too lightly.
Click to expand...

That's why I spend so much time training people-especially youth. They are neither fearful of firearms nor cavalier in the handling of them.
 
Lovebug said:
I have a HCP. However, picking up a weapon, knowing its potential, it scares me. I know, rights and all that, but yeah, too many people take this too lightly.
Click to expand...
Ok bug I',m going to step square in it. Do you drive and if so when you get in your car/truck you must be aware of it's potential, does it scare you? Now this is where a lot of people say something on the order of "well I got a drivers license" "well my car/truck is registered" just to name a few. I'm not saying you're
one of people but there are those that will and do. Well you learned to drive as you could learn too handle firearms and be safe. Actually the firearm is safest of the two.
 
Lovebug said:
I have a HCP. However, picking up a weapon, knowing its potential, it scares me. I know, rights and all that, but yeah, too many people take this too lightly.
Click to expand...


I agree, it is a serious matter.

When my son turned 21 he passed his class and got his carry permit, and soon began packing daily like his Dad. More than anything else, this brought home to me the gravity of going armed.

He was well-trained from an early age. He was brought up with strong values and morals. He was taught "common sense" all his life.

This didn't stop me from thinking "Dear lord, what if he has a lapse in judgement and gets in trouble, or gets himself killed? Maybe I should have discouraged this until he is older..."

On the one hand, I was glad he know had effective means to defend himself if he encountered an armed criminal, which is all too likely in our part of the world. On the other, I hoped youthful courage and optimism didn't lead him to intervene in some situation, where better judgement would have walked on past.

That was four years ago, nearly, and all is well. He has, as I'd hoped, shown good judgement and suitable caution and restraint. Still, it was certainly an event that provoked some deep thought and self-reflection.
 
zsu2357 said:
Ok bug I',m going to step square in it. Do you drive and if so when you get in your car/truck you must be aware of it's potential, does it scare you? Now this is where a lot of people say something on the order of "well I got a drivers license" "well my car/truck is registered" just to name a few. I'm not saying you're
one of people but there are those that will and do. Well you learned to drive as you could learn too handle firearms and be safe. Actually the firearm is safest of the two.
Click to expand...


Heh. When your child starts driving, alone, is one of the most terrifying times for a parent. :)
 
BahamaBob said:
A few facts to enhance the conversation. There were 1.2 million reported violent crimes in 2018. While at the same time about 13,000 people were murdered by guns. I bring this up because the same people who say those who own guns have an illogical fear of being a victim while they are justified at being afraid of firearms. Using this data it shows you are nearly 100 times more likely to be a victim of violent crime than a victim of gun murder.
...snip.... There's is also a 1 in 11 chance of encountering a violent crime. It is safe to walk alone in the daytime but walking alone at right is extremely dangerous.

This is only the 4th worse neighborhood in Chicago. This article also only addresses violent crime. If your chances of being a victim of violent crime are 1 in 11, what do you think your chances of being the victim of other types of crimes are? You can bet it is close to 100%. This is why you will find that nearly everyone in this neighborhood is armed. The facts show the police can not control the crime in neighborhoods like this. The people are forced to protect themselves.
Click to expand...


A lot of people don't seem to want to think about such things.

I can't help it. In my 54 years, I've been on the wrong end of two guns, two knives, one broken bottle, a couple of clubs, and I couldn't count how many fists. I've lost one dear friend, two cousins and two acquaintances to violent crime. This is not counting my time in law enforcement.

Last year, my middle niece narrowly evaded a knife-weilding lunatic in the parking lot of the local Dollar General. My oldest niece had her house burgled and trashed. I was called up to help a neighbor deal with a crazy meth-head twice.

I wasn't aware, until I was an adult, that my home county included areas as bad as any in Chicago, LA or Detroit for violent crime. It was "normal" to me, and I assumed it was like that everywhere. It isn't... but my time in LE also showed me that "safe neighborhoods" are often an illusion born from a lack of knowledge about what goes on around you. Willful ignorance, I think in many cases.


The world is not a safe place, unless you take action to make it so.
 
Last edited:
Goshin said:
Heh. When your child starts driving, alone, is one of the most terrifying times for a parent. :)
Click to expand...

Especially when she is in a large city......I had acid reflux for the first 12 months. :sick:
 
Goshin said:
A lot of people don't seem to want to think about such things.

I can't help it. In my 54 years, I've been on the wrong end of two guns, two knives, one broken bottle, a couple of clubs, and I couldn't count how many fists. I've lost one dear friend, two cousins and two acquaintances to violent crime. This is not counting my time in law enforcement.

Last year, my middle niece narrowly evaded a knife-weilding lunatic in the parking lot of the local Dollar General. My oldest niece had her house burgled and trashed. I was called up to help a neighbor deal with a crazy meth-head twice.

I wasn't aware, until I was an adult, that my home county included areas as bad as any in Chicago, LA or Detroit for violent crime. It was "normal" to me, and I assumed it was like that everywhere. It isn't... but my time in LE also showed me that "safe neighborhoods" are often an illusion born from a lack of knowledge about what goes on around you. Willful ignorance, I think in many cases.


The world is not a safe place, unless you take action to make it so.
Click to expand...

Wow

I am 65 years old. Had a carry permit since I was 18. Been in the construction industry most of my life. Built projects from Miami to San Francisco. Traveled all over Central America and the Caribbean. Been In my share of fist fights in my younger years but never once in all those years have I ever felt the need to pull that pistol. I carry. I am proficient with it but i hope I never need it.
 
Goshin said:
Heh. When your child starts driving, alone, is one of the most terrifying times for a parent. :)
Click to expand...
I know what you mean about when they start alone, but at least they knew (I hope) what they were doing. Many years later so far so good, but Christ being in the car when they had learner permits was like an on the scene horror movie where I was the dumb big boobed blond.;)
 
rickc said:
Wow

I am 65 years old. Had a carry permit since I was 18. Been in the construction industry most of my life. Built projects from Miami to San Francisco. Traveled all over Central America and the Caribbean. Been In my share of fist fights in my younger years but never once in all those years have I ever felt the need to pull that pistol. I carry. I am proficient with it but i hope I never need it.
Click to expand...


There's a bell curve of probability. One one end, a fair few people never experience this sort of thing. On the other end, lots of incidents. In the middle, a lot of people who get along fine for a long time, until one day that low percentage comes up and something happens.

I didn't know I lived in a high-violent-crime area until I was an adult. Back then stats like that were not readily available to the public.
 
Goshin said:
There's a bell curve of probability. One one end, a fair few people never experience this sort of thing. On the other end, lots of incidents. In the middle, a lot of people who get along fine for a long time, until one day that low percentage comes up and something happens.

I didn't know I lived in a high-violent-crime area until I was an adult. Back then stats like that were not readily available to the public.
Click to expand...
Human nature is to believe everyone is like yourself. That is a fool's paradise. Some people think everywhere is just like where they live. Their logic is that I don't need a gun so no one needs a gun. They think I settle my problems with logic and debate so that is how everyone acts. They live in their little white segregated neighborhoods and see everything through rose colored glasses. They don't understand neighborhoods where the only businesses are payday loan shops, pawn shops, and bars. Neighborhoods where crime is an accepted way of life. The role models are gang lords and drug dealers. Where crime is everywhere and you have to be tough just to survive.

I was raised in a neighborhood like this and know what it takes to get out. Some think pouring money into the neighborhoods is the answer. They think handing out money will make people successful and responsible. All it does is remove the incentive to improve. Education, jobs and self esteem are the answers.
 
I just finished reloading 50 rounds for my 6 grendel precision rifle. I am working through load development. it looks like I have assembled an ar15 that will shoot consistent half inch groups. 24" Columbia River Arms barrel is pretty impressive.

I love reloading, shooting and building rifles.

I am an accuracy buff not one of the tactical crew.
 
Goshin said:
A lot of people don't seem to want to think about such things.

I can't help it. In my 54 years, I've been on the wrong end of two guns, two knives, one broken bottle, a couple of clubs, and I couldn't count how many fists. I've lost one dear friend, two cousins and two acquaintances to violent crime. This is not counting my time in law enforcement.

Last year, my middle niece narrowly evaded a knife-weilding lunatic in the parking lot of the local Dollar General. My oldest niece had her house burgled and trashed. I was called up to help a neighbor deal with a crazy meth-head twice.

I wasn't aware, until I was an adult, that my home county included areas as bad as any in Chicago, LA or Detroit for violent crime. It was "normal" to me, and I assumed it was like that everywhere. It isn't... but my time in LE also showed me that "safe neighborhoods" are often an illusion born from a lack of knowledge about what goes on around you. Willful ignorance, I think in many cases.


The world is not a safe place, unless you take action to make it so.
Click to expand...

Move.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom