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Putin ends all talks of a ceasefire with irrational demands

dncc said:
Looks like Day One is becomeing Year One for Trump.

Everyday American credibility becomes more damaged as we stand by and watch Russia slaughter Ukranians.
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The U.S. trying to enter the war would be a disastrously dumb idea.
 
Tigerace117 said:
If Russia “holds all the cards” they couldn’t possibly “have not won anything”
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Putin hold all the cards in the ongoing negotiations. Just like Trump said he holds them with Zelenskyy. If Trump held any cards, he could get Putin to agree to a cease fire, but he can’t. You are mixing two things together as if they can’t both be true when they are true. Even though Russia hasn’t won, Putin still holds the cards in the so-called peace negotiations.
 
Tigerace117 said:
No, it’s literally what the US did. The US tried to claim Iran was responsible for the Halabja attack, after all.

Likewise, the US backed dictatorships and death squads slaughtered vast numbers of innocent civilians from Mexico City to Buenos Aires. No amount of denial or wailing about Putin can ever change that reality.

America is currently threatening to annex multiple other nations with shrieks about Russia....

And once again no amount of denial can change or excuse such behavior.
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Putin’s Russia has literally backed dictatorships and deaths quads that have slaughtered vast numbers of innocent civilians.
 
devildavid said:
Putin hold all the cards in the ongoing negotiations. Just like Trump said he holds them with Zelenskyy. If Trump held any cards, he could get Putin to agree to a cease fire, but he can’t. You are mixing two things together as if they can’t both be true when they are true. Even though Russia hasn’t won, Putin still holds the cards in the so-called peace negotiations.
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So, by definition, he clearly would have accomplished quite a lot. If he didn’t he wouldn’t have any cards to play.

He’s won control of large chunks of Ukraine, which the Ukrainians have proven unable to recapture despite the supply of supposedly “best in the world” equipment.
 
NolanVoyd said:
It would be decisive
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The U.S. couldn’t beat a faction that didn’t own even a single tank.

The U.S. hasn’t faced any sort of serious air defense network—- or air opposition, for that matter— since Vietnam.
 
Tigerace117 said:
So, by definition, he clearly would have accomplished quite a lot. If he didn’t he wouldn’t have any cards to play.

He’s won control of large chunks of Ukraine, which the Ukrainians have proven unable to recapture despite the supply of supposedly “best in the world” equipment.
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If Putin had no cards, Trump would have played his and gotten a cease fire. Apparently Putin holds some cards that stop Trump from making such a deal. And this has nothing at all to do with the territory that Putin has won and holds. It has to do with Trump’s weak hand in the game even when he claims to be a great deal maker.
 
devildavid said:
If Putin had no cards, Trump would have played his and gotten a cease fire. Apparently Putin holds some cards that stop Trump from making such a deal. And this has nothing at all to do with the territory that Putin has won and holds. It has to do with Trump’s weak hand in the game even when he claims to be a great deal maker.
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So by definition, your claim that Russia “hasn’t won anything” is clearly false. If they hadn’t won anything they wouldn’t have any cards to play in the first place.
 
Tigerace117 said:
So by definition, your claim that Russia “hasn’t won anything” is clearly false. If they hadn’t won anything they wouldn’t have any cards to play in the first place.
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Russia has not won anything as the conflict is ongoing. Taking territory is not winning when the conflict is still ongoing. That is how war works.
 
devildavid said:
Russia couldn’t beat Afghanistan.
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The U.S., with supposedly the most powerful military ever, over a decade’s worth of improvements in military technology, and dozens of allies, lost to a much weaker foe than the one the Russians faced.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The U.S. couldn’t beat a faction that didn’t own even a single tank.

The U.S. hasn’t faced any sort of serious air defense network—- or air opposition, for that matter— since Vietnam.
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Huh?
 
Tigerace117 said:
The U.S., with supposedly the most powerful military ever, over a decade’s worth of improvements in military technology, and dozens of allies, lost to a much weaker foe than the one the Russians faced.
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Russia couldn’t defeat Afghanistan. Russia collapsed and couldn’t hold onto its satellite nations. Russia is weak and has a poorly run government that kills its own people for dissent.
 
devildavid said:
Russia has not won anything as the conflict is ongoing. Taking territory is not winning when the conflict is still ongoing. That is how war works.
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Taking and holding territory matters when discussing peace, and the Russians have done plenty of it.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Taking and holding territory matters when discussing peace, and the Russians have done plenty of it.
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Russia has not won this war. They are desperate because they thought it would be easier and they are showing their weakness as a military power. It doesn’t matter what they hold as long as Ukraine will not surrender its sovereignty.
 
devildavid said:
Russia couldn’t defeat Afghanistan. Russia collapsed and couldn’t hold onto its satellite nations. Russia is weak and has a poorly run government that kills its own people for dissent.
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The Russians chose not to hold onto their satellites. Had they emulated China, there is nothing the U.S. could have done to stop them from crushing the protests. And they would have had support— East Germany was fully prepared to come down brutally on its protest movement.

Gorbachev purposefully chose not to crush the opposition.

The U.S. couldn’t win in Afghanistan despite having supposedly the most powerful military ever, over a decade’s worth of improvements in military technology, and dozens of allies.

The U.S. kills dissidents on a routine basis and has for decades. The FBI tried to drive MLK Jr to suicide.
 
devildavid said:
Russia has not won this war. They are desperate because they thought it would be easier and they are showing their weakness as a military power. It doesn’t matter what they hold as long as Ukraine will not surrender its sovereignty.
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If that were true Ukraine’s offensives wouldn’t have repeatedly ended in utter failure, and they certainly wouldn’t have been chased out of the tiny handful of Kursk they grabbed.
 
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