Putin Asks Reporter If US 'Assassinated' Ashli Babbitt

[Overitall]

I cannot answer that as I do not know
Grace of God, pure luck, who knows.
How close did the mob come to Pence?

I believe Pence was evacuated well before this shooting took place.

 

[Luce]

Different day, same wheel.

I’m not sure what the difference is between partially broken and fully. Both involve the intent of breaching the barricade.

Here’s a thought. If the tactical officers were in the stairwell (which by their quick actions to help the woman after she was shot, why didn’t they shoot into the mob as they attempting to break the glass?

Because there cops and the people they were protecting on the other side of the glass?

Dude on the inside took one aimed shot at an upward angle to avoid hitting the tactical officers. Turns out that's all that was needed.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

From any standpoint, she is part of the Trump supporting right, not a centrist.

I regard the larger part of the Trump faction as being centrist, by and large. The effort is made to portray Trump, those alighed with him, those that *resonate* with him, as right-wing and extremist, has come about because of the need to vilify him and those who are associated with him.

There is more to be gained in my view by noticing and talking about these *transvaluations* than in getting stuck in partisan political positions.

 

[roguenuke]

Different day, same wheel.

I’m not sure what the difference is between partially broken and fully. Both involve the intent of breaching the barricade.

Here’s a thought. If the tactical officers were in the stairwell (which by their quick actions to help the woman after she was shot, why didn’t they shoot into the mob as they attempting to break the glass?

The view through it. If you have a small or even long line in your windshield, you can see through it still even if it obscures maybe a very small piece of your view. If your windshield is broken to spiderwebs though, you aren't seeing through it.

Why would they shoot into the mob? That is not generally seen as a good move and they were not in charge of directly protecting the members of Congress, the officers within that Lobby were. She breached into the Lobby, she became a serious, imminent threat to those inside. Lethal force that was needed was used.

 

[roguenuke]

I regard the larger part of the Trump faction as being centrist, by and large. The effort is made to portray Trump, those alighed with him, those that *resonate* with him, as right-wing and extremist, has come about because of the need to vilify him and those who are associated with him.

There is more to be gained in my view by noticing and talking about these *transvaluations* than in getting stuck in partisan political positions.

And you are wrong. Trump supporters are right wing, not centrists.

 

[roguenuke]

I believe Pence was evacuated well before this shooting took place.

Pence was (he was in the Senate Chamber and the first one evacuated, from what I read/posted), but they did technically come within a minute of him earlier, while he was being evacuated from the other side (likely a different group of the mob as a whole).

There were still members of Congress, staff, and other civilians though within the House Chamber when Babbitt was shot. They had not finished evacuating the House when the mob got that close.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

She wasn't centrist.

She was right wing delusional.

While I understand your point (I understand where you are coming from) and can agree in some ways, my view is that 'delusion' and also 'self-deception' are common among many people, and in the opposed factions.

Delusional is an abused term. But it is useful for forum-wars on a heated political forum. I grant that.

 

[Alizia Tyler]

And you are wrong. Trump supporters are right wing, not centrists.

Yes, according to your assertion. But I do not think this is really so. Most Trump supporters represent the American political center when examined fairly and dispassionately. Their positions are made to seem radical and fringe.

 

[calamity]

While I understand your point (I understand where you are coming from) and can agree in some ways, my view is that 'delusion' and also 'self-deception' are common among many people, and in the opposed factions.

Delusional is an abused term. But it is useful for forum-wars on a heated political forum. I grant that.

She was nuts. How's that?

 

[JANFU]

I believe Pence was evacuated well before this shooting took place.

We saw a number of instances where rioters came within a few minutes or less of coming face to face with Police & those they had to protect.

The Officer who led the mob away from IIRC the Senate Chamber where people had not had time to properly evacuate
Mob turned left and followed the Officer vice turning right and come into full contact with Officers/Members of Congress.

Now I will ask for your opinion as to why other officers did not use lethal force?

 

[roguenuke]

Yes, according to your assertion. But I do not think this is really so. Most Trump supporters represent the American political center when examined fairly and dispassionately. Their positions are made to seem radical and fringe.

If you don't think she is right wing, then that is you, not reality. She is right wing and represents most Trump supporters. Hell, she even calls herself "self appointed checker of the left".

Who said "radical" or "fringe"? Not me. I said she is not centrist, she is very much, completely right wing. That does not mean the same thing as "radical" or "fringe". I'd refer to my FIL as completely right wing, but he isn't radical or fringe.

 

[Fledermaus]

While I understand your point (I understand where you are coming from) and can agree in some ways, my view is that 'delusion' and also 'self-deception' are common among many people, and in the opposed factions.

Delusional is an abused term. But it is useful for forum-wars on a heated political forum. I grant that.

We aren't talking about "many people". We are talking about Babbitt.

And delusional fits. She was part of a right wing (not centrist) attempt to prevent Congress from doing their job.

 

[Fledermaus]

I regard the larger part of the Trump faction as being centrist, by and large. The effort is made to portray Trump, those alighed with him, those that *resonate* with him, as right-wing and extremist, has come about because of the need to vilify him and those who are associated with him.

There is more to be gained in my view by noticing and talking about these *transvaluations* than in getting stuck in partisan political positions.

It wasn't "centrists" storming the Capital.

Was it?

 

[Alizia Tyler]

It is shocking to me the lengths to which Trump supporters in this thread have gone to defend people who engaged in seditious and insurrectionist behavior.

More shocking or certainly as shocking, is your willed incapacity not to see and understand these events in a larger, social and political context. For example, that you will not also take into consideration and speak about the months of insurrection in the streets of major cities. Or setting up 'independent zones' within those cities. Or the collusion between Big Tech and factions within the US government to *steer* and *influence* people in ways favorable to the present regime.

I think I fully understand why you cannot and will not do this -- your own political commitments -- but it is nonetheless reprehensible.

 

[Luce]

I regard the larger part of the Trump faction as being centrist, by and large.

Then you might have fallen off the right wing.

 

[Luce]

More shocking or certainly as shocking, is your willed incapacity not to see and understand these events in a larger, social and political context. For example, that you will not also take into consideration and speak about the months of insurrection in the streets of major cities. Or setting up 'independent zones' within those cities.

Those are a different topic entirely.

 

[Fledermaus]

More shocking or certainly as shocking, is your willed incapacity not to see and understand these events in a larger, social and political context. For example, that you will not also take into consideration and speak about the months of insurrection in the streets of major cities. Or setting up 'independent zones' within those cities. Or the collusion between Big Tech and factions within the US government to *steer* and *influence* people in ways favorable to the present regime.

I think I fully understand why you cannot and will not do this -- your own political commitments -- but it is nonetheless reprehensible.

I bolded the irrelevant.

This was a right wing attempt to stop Congress from counting electoral votes and formalizing Joe Biden's election results.

It has zero to do with Antifa, BLM, 'independent zones', etc.

 

[Taylor]

Yep. She seemed so friendly.

Indeed.

 

[trouble13]

So, no. No citation.

I could give you any number of citations but without knowing what exactly you are looking for a citation about it would be like throwing a dart at a dartboard. It's telling that you will not specify. It's a trite game that some of you on these boards like to play and it exposes how unethical you are.

 

[Overitall]

We saw a number of instances where rioters came within a few minutes or less of coming face to face with Police & those they had to protect.

The Officer who led the mob away from IIRC the Senate Chamber where people had not had time to properly evacuate
Mob turned left and followed the Officer vice turning right and come into full contact with Officers/Members of Congress.

Now I will ask for your opinion as to why other officers did not use lethal force?

No imminent threat either to themselves or others.

 

[JMB802]

Indeed.

@Alizia Tyler

Babbit seems SO friendly and "centered" in her Twitter video.

Ashli Babbitt, killed in Capitol, criticized politicians for ‘refusing to choose America’

Ashli Babbitt, the pro-Trump protester who was shot in the Capitol, once launched into a tirade against politicians for “refusing to choose America.”

nypost.com

 

[Alizia Tyler]

She was nuts. How's that?

In the Soviet regime, as you may recall, political dissidents were actually sent to psychiatric prisons. Their opposition was seen as a bona fide social sickness. A similar approach is taken today in China. Powerful regimes work to *normalize* their points-of-view and to establish rightthink and wrongthink (not to mention crimethink).

I assert that in our present, though differently, sometimes more subtly but sometimes not, similar assessments about mental health are being made. The opposition is described as *nuts* or *deluded* or backward and retrograde or *hung-up*. And there is then a socially-accepted and asserted view or position of who and what is normal as-against the abnormal ones.

What I suggest is paying closer attention to this. Simply to see it with more clarity and, as I say, from some distance.

There is a sort of political or social regime which, after the defeat of Donald Trump, has been working to establish its positions as *normal* and good. Are they indeed? That is the question to ask. It is a question that requires a balanced and capable respondent. But will the answer be provided by an ideologue of the present regime, or one who stands above and outside of it and can thus see it objectively? And what is objectivity?

 

[Alizia Tyler]

Those are a different topic entirely.

No, they are part of a whole that must be examined holistically. I mean if one wants to arrive at *fair and balanced view* and understanding.

If not, there are a whole array of more biased ways to examine all things.

It depends on one's purposes.

 

[Luce]

No,

Yes.

 

[Overitall]

The view through it. If you have a small or even long line in your windshield, you can see through it still even if it obscures maybe a very small piece of your view. If your windshield is broken to spiderwebs though, you aren't seeing through it.

Why would they shoot into the mob? That is not generally seen as a good move and they were not in charge of directly protecting the members of Congress, the officers within that Lobby were. She breached into the Lobby, she became a serious, imminent threat to those inside. Lethal force that was needed was used.

The purpose of a “tactical force” is to take action when necessary.

Newly available video shows fatal shooting of pro-Trump rioter Ashli Babbitt in the Capitol

Babbitt and others were attempting to breach a barricaded door inside the Capitol building on Wednesday afternoon, angrily demanding that three U.S. Capitol Police officers who were guarding the door step aside, one of the clips shows.

www.adn.com

At this point, one officer guarding the door said to the others, “They’re ready to roll,” and gestured to them to come with him, the video shows. The officers stepped away from the door together and moved to an adjacent wall.

How did he know “they’re ready to roll” and what does that mean? Prior to the woman attempting to move through the broken section of glass they were already in place and yet did nothing. This despite having the time to do something.