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Punishing people who trivialize or downplay Charlie Kirk's death

Should people who trivialize or downplay Charlie Kirk's death be punished?


  • Total voters
    92
Under what conditions should people who trivialize or downplay Kirk's death be punished? Are there exceptions?
When they endorse the action. As for the direct question, that would depend on who is there. Like a teacher in an elementary class.
 
When they endorse the action.

Goalpost shift. The question is what happens when someone downplays or trivializes, not endorses, the killing. What's your answer to that?
 
Goalpost shift. The question is what happens when someone downplays or trivializes, not endorses, the killing. What's your answer to that?
Again, it depends on the specific example. It is not a yes or no for all situations. Please do not tell me you are that simplistic.
 
Again, it depends on the specific example. It is not a yes or no for all situations. Please do not tell me you are that simplistic.

"It's time to move on." Punishable?
"It's one death by one bullet." Punishable?
"If he had been a schoolchild, no one would have heard about him." Punishable?
 
"It's time to move on." Punishable?
"It's one death by one bullet." Punishable?
"If he had been a schoolchild, no one would have heard about him." Punishable?
Why do you keep this silly shit up? Simple statements with no context are meaningless also.

haven't you learned by now that context matters to me. I refuse to assume, or take your assumption on matters without contezt.

I have no more time. Signing off.
 
Why do you keep this silly shit up? Simple statements with no context are meaningless also.

haven't you learned by now that context matters to me. I refuse to assume, or take your assumption on matters without contezt.

I have no more time. Signing off.

Why are you quitting so soon? You wanted examples and I gave them to you. But I will accept your surrender yet again. :)
 
Actually, it doesn't. Have you read the First amendment? "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech,..." There is nothing about protecting you from intemperate opinions those with authority over you find objectionable. Should a salesman at ABC Car Dealership be able to go on his social media accounts and say, "ABC Car Dealership is a crappy place to work and, in my opinion, they sell substandard cars which are a ripoff to customers," without fear of consequences from the owner (his employer) of ABC Car Dealership? Anything that employee says that could bring harm to the employer is cause for consequences, up to and including termination. Particularly if the person making the objectionable speech can be linked to the employer being harmed. Stating an opinion which could alienate a good portion of any business's customer/client base, such as those about Charlie Kirk and his death, could cause harm to an employer and he has every right to distance himself for that opinion by firing the offender and making a public plea or apology to his customer base.

It's absolutely a libertarian idea that both the employee and the employer are free to make decisions they believe are in their own best interests....without government interference. Your suggesting the government should be empowered to force the employer to keep an employee he no longer wants employed by his business. This is the fundamental disagreement libertarians have with things like the EEOC, Affirmative Action, DEI, etc... Frankly, It'd be a refreshing change if government would get out of the business of trying to force virtue on private individuals altogether; That way I would know who to not give my business, based on their own personal choices and not those that force their true feeling to be masked by government-enforced edicts.

I understand the 1A and how it works as well as
anyone who isn't a constitutional scholar by trade but has read many of the relevant court cases.

I am not talking about the 1A. The 1A is not end all of free speech. Free speech is about the free exchange of ideas between people in an effort to come to the truth. That goes way beyond just the 1A.


This passage about free speech is from John Stuart Mill's on Liberty:

"Let us suppose, therefore, that the government is entirely at one with the people, and never thinks of exerting any power of coercion unless in agreement with what it conceives to be their voice. But I deny the right of the people to exercise such coercion, either by themselves or by their government. The power itself is illegitimate. The best government has no more title to it than the worst. It is as noxious, or more noxious, when exerted in accordance with public opinion, than when in or opposition to it. If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."

If employers want to circumscribe certain speech they are free to specify what is or isn't permissible to them in an employment contract. This way everyone knows the rules up front. But for employers to be able to terminate employees for speech wholly unconnected to their employment is contrary to freedom. Your vision gives employers the ability to shape public speech. That is wong.

And for the record I said nothing about government intervention.
 
Either way, approval of someone being killed for their ‘icky’ political views is expressed.

I'll grant that much for the sake of argument. It is still far better for society as a whole to allow all opinions to be expressed than to censor speech we don't agree with.
 
I understand the 1A and how it works as well as
anyone who isn't a constitutional scholar by trade but has read many of the relevant court cases.

I am not talking about the 1A. The 1A is not end all of free speech. Free speech is about the free exchange of ideas between people in an effort to come to the truth. That goes way beyond just the 1A.


This passage about free speech is from John Stuart Mill's on Liberty:

"Let us suppose, therefore, that the government is entirely at one with the people, and never thinks of exerting any power of coercion unless in agreement with what it conceives to be their voice. But I deny the right of the people to exercise such coercion, either by themselves or by their government. The power itself is illegitimate. The best government has no more title to it than the worst. It is as noxious, or more noxious, when exerted in accordance with public opinion, than when in or opposition to it. If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."

If employers want to circumscribe certain speech they are free to specify what is or isn't permissible to them in an employment contract. This way everyone knows the rules up front. But for employers to be able to terminate employees for speech wholly unconnected to their employment is contrary to freedom. Your vision gives employers the ability to shape public speech. That is wong.

And for the record I said nothing about government intervention.
Okay so, tell me where employers don't have the right to protect their businesses from idiot employees spouting idiot opinions on social media.
 
Okay so, tell me where employers don't have the right to protect their businesses from idiot employees spouting idiot opinions on social media.
You're not describing "protecting their business", but complying with extortion.

There are much more mundane form of extortion where mafia demands that businesses pay money, buy from certain sources, etc. What is curious is that the government will often prosecute the victim businesses as part of the extortion racket.

We do not have to accept that every business that has a mob on a social media outlet come after one of their employees should give in. The more businesses don't give in, the less this happens, and the MORE those businesses are actually protected.
 
You're not describing "protecting their business", but complying with extortion.

There are much more mundane form of extortion where mafia demands that businesses pay money, buy from certain sources, etc. What is curious is that the government will often prosecute the victim businesses as part of the extortion racket.

We do not have to accept that every business that has a mob on a social media outlet come after one of their employees should give in. The more businesses don't give in, the less this happens, and the MORE those businesses are actually protected.
I'm not sure what you're driving at but, if my customer base tells me an employee pissed them off -- and they do so in enough numbers -- the employee is gone.
 
Yes - people who celebrate or condone the assassination of anyone should expect consequences.

That wasn’t the question. The words you used mean entirely different things. Apparently you are unable to answer the original question which did not have the same wording or meaning that you changed it to.
 
I'll grant that much for the sake of argument. It is still far better for society as a whole to allow all opinions to be expressed than to censor speech we don't agree with.

I’m not saying that social media speech celebrating or condoning violence should be censored, since I like to know who these morons are. I’m saying that employers or educational institutions have no reason to give those spewing it any support.
 
The reality is that it depends on who died and who is in power. It isn’t at all about sensitivity toward all human beings lives having value.
 
That wasn’t the question. The words you used mean entirely different things. Apparently you are unable to answer the original question which did not have the same wording or meaning that you changed it to.

How can anyone “trivialize or downplay Charlie Kirk's death”, which was the result of an assassination for his political views, without being seen as approving of (endorsing?) that action?
 
How can anyone “trivialize or downplay Charlie Kirk's death”, which was the result of an assassination for his political views, without being seen as approving that action?

Easily. They react in way that they don’t care about it. Not caring isn’t equal to approving. Approving requires a positive position. Not caring is a negative position.
 
Easily. They react in way that they don’t care about it.

That (bolded above) is taking an action. Calling it a reaction, changes nothing.

Not caring isn’t equal to approving. Approving requires a positive position. Not caring is a negative position.

Saying nothing about (ignoring) it is not caring.
 
Why do you keep this silly shit up? Simple statements with no context are meaningless also.

haven't you learned by now that context matters to me. I refuse to assume, or take your assumption on matters without contezt.

I have no more time. Signing off.
Bye-bye, you haven't offered anything constructive to the conversation anyway.
 
I'm not sure what you're driving at but, if my customer base tells me an employee pissed them off -- and they do so in enough numbers -- the employee is gone.
I'll bet your customer base is a hot mess.
 
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