Snoozin
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- Sep 10, 2005
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- Location
- Washington, DC
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- Political Leaning
- Liberal
Well lets see...For the first 10 years of my life i was molested by my brother, then by a church friend (We had gone to a AME church [African Methodist Epesicpal...basicly methodist tho] when i was little, but it was just someplace to go and play and hang out for me, nothing to do with God at all, wasn't even really interested with the 'big guy upstairs'). I was suicidel at 6, tried to kill myself at 9 and again at 13. Throughout that i had becoem a big girl, cause i didn't know how to cope so i turned to food, in that i went through brutal ridicule and even beaten just because i was big. I went into a severe depression at 12, turned to cutting and suicide attempt for a second time, tehn onto an eating disorder (bullemia). I went to therapy, had medicines and what not...i was improving a bit, but all the medicines did was cure my 'chemical imbalence' not my heart.Snoozin said:Let me just say now that I really want to believe in God. I do believe, off and on. Usually losing faith in extraordinarily hard times, which is when an individual is supposed to believe in God. So my question is, if you believe in God, how did you get to that point? How do you prove He exists?
Snoozin said:Let me just say now that I really want to believe in God. I do believe, off and on. Usually losing faith in extraordinarily hard times, which is when an individual is supposed to believe in God.
Snoozin said:So my question is, if you believe in God, how did you get to that point? How do you prove He exists?
leejosepho said:Pretty much like I believe teenonfire4him77 has shared, He proves Himself at the personal level when, one by one, we who become desperate and/or at least willing reach out to Him and leave the results to Him. In contrast, however, Santa Claus allegedly responds to demands if we are first "good".
teenonfire4him77 said:Well lets see...For the first 10 years of my life i was molested by my brother, then by a church friend (We had gone to a AME church [African Methodist Epesicpal...basicly methodist tho] when i was little, but it was just someplace to go and play and hang out for me, nothing to do with God at all, wasn't even really interested with the 'big guy upstairs'). I was suicidel at 6, tried to kill myself at 9 and again at 13. Throughout that i had becoem a big girl, cause i didn't know how to cope so i turned to food, in that i went through brutal ridicule and even beaten just because i was big. I went into a severe depression at 12, turned to cutting and suicide attempt for a second time, tehn onto an eating disorder (bullemia). I went to therapy, had medicines and what not...i was improving a bit, but all the medicines did was cure my 'chemical imbalence' not my heart.
In 7th-8th grade, there was a lot of bullying going on, i was basiclly all alone (very small school, only 19 people in my class) All of the friends ive grown up with since kindergarden have turned on me.
But this year, a new girl, Jordann, came to our class...we talked every once in a while, but i was too busy in my own problems to try and get to know her. But somethign just told me to make friends with her...then one day i had gone over her house after school, and we realized how much in common we had, we had basicly a heart to heart. She was a pastors kid, and so i was liek ok thats cool...and she had told me of that point in ehr life where she choose to follow God on her own. I wasn't really interested at the time about anything to deal with God, cause at that time i was convinced that there was none, and if so, then ill just go to hell then cause i really didn't care.
Throughout the summer, we kept in touch, even as she went on her missions trip to Jamacia. Then when the next shcool year came, we went to different highschools...I had become a partyer, and i started drinking, but i never had sex, but the way teens dance now a days (esp. partys i went to) if was darned near sex, but with clothes on...but i started going to her youth group, and thats when my life started to change.
I saw the way she lived, with her struggles and triaumphs in the Lord, and it inspired me. She didn't try and talk to me about him, only if i wanted to, and the youth pastor then, Janele...was amazing. She showed me what true christ-like love was, I never felt that...not from anyone, not my parents...she actually cared about me! She could see right through the mask that ive learned to put on that made my life seem like it was great on the outside...and it opened my eyes and my heart to see that there is a God out there who loves me more then anything, and hates what ive been doing to myself, and wants to take my pains from me so I can live freely in his name.
At this point, I wanted to know the Lord. I wanted to feel the joy through the pain that everyone around me felt, I wanted to live an honerable life and have the relationship with Jesus that is so precious.
So my first major turning point experirence was at Aquire the Fire, it's a convention that is done all over the US. to teach kids about Christ. (A branch of Teen Mania- www.battlecry.com )
It was there where I experienced Christ breaking through the walls in my heart, and i just gave my all to him. Right then and there, I decided the live for him...that is where i got saved, and many other people in my youth group did too.
Then the opprotunity to go on a missions trip with Teen Mania to South Africa came up, and i jumped on it. This past summer, I learned so much on taht trip, i grew so much more in my relationship...bonded with people who have been true christians (meaning not just by name, but by life) longer then I have...and they keep me accountable as I do them.
Just because i have embarked on thi new path in Jesus, doesn't mean i wont ever slip back into my old behaviors(Lord knows i have)...but having friends who keep my accountable and are always there for a shoulder to cry on when the devil trips me up and i give into the temptation that he gives me, and i feel the incredible guilt about it.
Since I've gotten back to school, ive found it a bit hard to fit in, and heck, i might even loose some of my friends soon...but you know what? That probably the best thing, cause as much as I want to reach out to them, i don't want to force them and i don't need them bringing me back down to the place where I used to be. And I always have my church friends...who are as on fire for the Lord as I am.
No matter what anyone tells me, or what kind of 'proof' they give me to disprove the exsistence of God...it wont sway me. I know what he has done for me in my life, because I saught him will all my heart...and he has blessed me 10 fold because of it.And there ya go:lol:
alex said:This is a classic example of religion taking advantage of someone. You were in a seriously low point in your life it seems (sorry to hear about all the terrible times you went through). You had a void in your life that needed to be filled. Religion did that for you. People become very desperate for unconditional love at all times. They turn to religion to obtain this. Sounds like this is what happened here.
How does this prove the existence of a god?
Snoozin said:That's a good way to look at it....I guess I just get bogged down in how horrible certain aspects of life are, why are so many people so cruel to others? Why does God let that happen?
And why do I feel *closer* to God when I try to help people then when I am actually *thinking* about Him?
Snoozin said:I don't think it's fair to say religion has *taken advantage* of her since the changes it has effected have been very positive ones. ?? And in a way, her story proves the existence of God in *her* life.
But I have a question for you, since I'm assuming you don't believe in God. How do you prove he doesn't exist, or does that not have any bearing on whether you believe or not? I cannot prove or disprove His existence. I've tried both.
alex said:The burden of proof falls on the believer, not a doubter. There is no empirical or rational evidence for the existence of a god. The lack of that kind of evidence is proof itself.
Snoozin said:But the old adage, "The absence of proof is not proof of absence."
alex said:The Riddle of Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Also from Epicurus:
"If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one another."
Do these seem logical? Are they valid points?
alex said:This is a classic example of religion taking advantage of someone. You were in a seriously low point in your life it seems (sorry to hear about all the terrible times you went through). You had a void in your life that needed to be filled. Religion did that for you. People become very desperate for unconditional love at all times. They turn to religion to obtain this. Sounds like this is what happened here.
How does this prove the existence of a god?
The Riddle of Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
alex said:This is a classic example of religion taking advantage of someone. You were in a seriously low point in your life it seems (sorry to hear about all the terrible times you went through). You had a void in your life that needed to be filled. Religion did that for you. People become very desperate for unconditional love at all times. They turn to religion to obtain this. Sounds like this is what happened here.
How does this prove the existence of a god?
Also from Epicurus:
"If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one another."
Do these seem logical? Are they valid points?
Nez Dragon said:If religion helps so many people get through the tough times in their lives, and it gives people strength, and helps some of the most miserable people completely change their lives for the better, how is it taking advantage of them?
Nez Dragon said:I'm going to solve this whole riddle for you.
Oh, one quick question... Have you read the Bible alex? If not, you should shut up. If you do not know what you are talking about, there is no point in listening to you.
Nez Dragon said:For the solution. In the beginning of Genesis, God created the garden of Eden, where Adam and Eve were meant to live together with God in happiness. Then Eve was tempted by the snake to eat a golden apple from the tree that God had forbidden them to eat from. When they ate the apple, they gained the knowledge of right and wrong. To punish them, God banished them from the Garden, among some other punishments.
The Bible is not meant to be taken literally, word for word. Rather, it is deeply symbolic. You have to think about what is written, which is a major stumbling block in religious arguments.
Nez Dragon said:Therefore, I interpreted the story as such: God first made it so that humans could coexist with Him in the Garden of Eden. They would be free to love each other unconditionally. However, when Original Sin (the eating of the apple) occured, humans gained free will-they would be free to make their own decisions and choose what is right and what is wrong. Our ability to make any decision we want is our free will, but humans also are tempted and corrupted by power.
God gave us free will. In exchange, He no longer directly affects the course of the world. You could say we are, in a way, independant from God. This does not mean that God does not answer prayers. He answers genuine prayers, not evil ones. If you ask God to kill or hurt someone, it will not happen. If you ask God for guidance and strength, He will guide you. How else can you explain how Christianity has survived for two thousand years, through numerous persecutions, how people have the strength to become martyrs throughout history? Christianity grew during its early time in Rome, like when Nero was burning Christians alive so that they could be used as human torches, from several hundred to millions. People who were involved in the persecutions of Christians have converted to Christianity!
Nez Dragon said:Christianity is the most persecuted religion in this century, perhaps even throughout all of history. It is also one of the largest religions. In China the communist government persecutes Christianity, yet there are still a fair amount of Chinese Christians. Simply looking at its strength throughout history, I find it hard to believe that Christianity is a false belief.
there is about what? 6 BILLION people in the world?The Christian numbers are falling. The number of people who profess "no religion" in The USA has doubled between 1990-2001. It went from 14.3 million people to 29.3 million.
Look, you keep believing whatever you want about my 'classic' example ok? Clearly your heart is closed, and have no desire to know God...and thats on you.It is taking advantage of someone because it is offering them something they cannot refuse in their lowest hour. It has a condition to this offering; believe in what it tells you to. This is not free will and therefore it has taken advantage of the person.
Snoozin said:... the old adage, "The absence of proof is not proof of absence."
Snoozin said:... I just get bogged down in how horrible certain aspects of life are, why are so many people so cruel to others? Why does God let that happen?
Snoozin said:And why do I feel *closer* to God when I try to help people then when I am actually *thinking* about Him?
alex said:This is a classic example of religion taking advantage of someone. You were in a seriously low point in your life it seems (sorry to hear about all the terrible times you went through). You had a void in your life that needed to be filled. Religion did that for you. People become very desperate for unconditional love at all times. They turn to religion to obtain this. Sounds like this is what happened here.
How does this prove the existence of a god?
alex said:The burden of proof falls on the believer, not a doubter. There is no empirical or rational evidence for the existence of a god. The lack of that kind of evidence is proof itself.
Nez Dragon said:... Have you read the Bible alex? If not, you should shut up. If you do not know what you are talking about, there is no point in listening to you.
Nez Dragon said:If religion helps so many people get through the tough times in their lives, and it gives people strength, and helps some of the most miserable people completely change their lives for the better, how is it taking advantage of them?
Nez Dragon said:Christianity is the most persecuted religion in this century, perhaps even throughout all of history.
alex said:... from Epicurus:
"If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one another."
Do these seem logical? Are they valid points?
teenonfire4him77 said:God can't help those who pray with hearts full of hate ...
alex said:... I have read the Bible. I went to a Christian School. That is were I learned to be an Atheist.
leejosepho said:Oh, how you have just brought a fresh sparkle into my morning
Because that is precisely what He wants us/you to do! And no matter whatever else you might ever do, be sure to keep doing precisely that!...
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