Proposal: A Gun in every household

[Absentglare]

No, rather that the fact that drug addicts and wife beaters have access to guns doesn't imply that law abiding citizens who own guns suffer from the same level of risks.

Kellermann published a study stating that having a gun in the home led to a higher risk of homicide, only he failed to note in the summary or title that the risk of a gun in the home included guns brought in by assailants and that the risk of homicide due to a gun in the home was less than doing illicit drugs, living alone or renting. You really have to filter out the BS if you expect a study to influence law abiding gun owners.

Well, that's a much better offense.

However, you need not reference Kellermann's work to see the link between gun possession and suicide. The correlation is incontrovertible due to the success rate of suicide by firearm.

 

[Rucker61]

Well, that's a much better offense.

However, you need not reference Kellermann's work to see the link between gun possession and suicide. The correlation is incontrovertible due to the success rate of suicide by firearm.

Hanging/suffocation suicide success rate is about 61% according to Harvard Medical, and that rate of suicide method has grown 88% since 1999 to hit 12k dead in 2016, as opposed to a growth rate of 12.7% for gun related suicides. The number of guns in the US has increased by about 50% over that time. It's easy to see the link between rope and bed sheet possession and suicide, based on the success rate and the huge increase in the rate of hanging/suffocation for suicide.

 

[TurtleDude]

What's your argument, that drug addicts and wife beaters don't have access to firearms?

that's really inane. see Rucker61's schooling in post of 123.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well, that's a much better offense.

However, you need not reference Kellermann's work to see the link between gun possession and suicide. The correlation is incontrovertible due to the success rate of suicide by firearm.

and my attitude is SO WHAT. constitutional rights should not be denigrated over the worry someone might kill themselves

 

[Absentglare]

that's really inane. see Rucker61's schooling in post of 123.

Yeah, his post was good, unlike yours where you called the author a whore.

 

[Absentglare]

and my attitude is SO WHAT. constitutional rights should not be denigrated over the worry someone might kill themselves

Then you aren't actually contesting the point made by the other poster, you're just redefining what should be done as a result: nothing.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yeah, his post was good, unlike yours where you called the author a whore.

the guy is a whore. anyone who follows this issue knows that Hemenway starts with the premise that gun ownership is bad and contorts the facts to fit that. If you actually keep up with this topic you will have seen numerous posts where I noted that the "gun in the home" idiocy is worthless because Hemenway and other anti gun propagandists have used that term to include guns brought to the home by a killer etc

 

[TurtleDude]

Then you aren't actually contesting the point made by the other poster, you're just redefining what should be done as a result: nothing.

wrong as usual. Constitutional rights are not subject to diminution merely because some people -for GOOD or BAD reasons-kill themselves with firearms

 

[Rucker61]

Then you aren't actually contesting the point made by the other poster, you're just redefining what should be done as a result: nothing.

What should be done to legal gun ownership?

 

[jaeger19]

Well, that's a much better offense.

However, you need not reference Kellermann's work to see the link between gun possession and suicide. The correlation is incontrovertible due to the success rate of suicide by firearm.

First.. what Rucker61 posted..

And now the fact that Japan has much higher suicide rate than the US.. but has almost no access to guns.

That means the correlation is not incontrovertible.

 

[Absentglare]

the guy is a whore. anyone who follows this issue knows that Hemenway starts with the premise that gun ownership is bad and contorts the facts to fit that. If you actually keep up with this topic you will have seen numerous posts where I noted that the "gun in the home" idiocy is worthless because Hemenway and other anti gun propagandists have used that term to include guns brought to the home by a killer etc

None of your opinion above denies that gun possession correlates to higher rates of suicide.

 

[Absentglare]

wrong as usual. Constitutional rights are not subject to diminution merely because some people -for GOOD or BAD reasons-kill themselves with firearms

Again, you aren't contesting the relationship between guns and deaths, you're contesting what should be done with this information.

 

[Absentglare]

What should be done to legal gun ownership?

Nothing. The other poster didn't claim that we should outlaw guns, they were simply arguing that you're less likely to die if you don't have one in your home.

 

[apdst]

"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is a symbol of democracy, and it is our job to see it stays there"

Relaxing our gun laws and even encouraging gun ownership would do wonders to reduce the rate of firearm murders in this country, first by helping to eliminate the black market, and second, allowing these guns to be registered by responsible citizens with clean backround checks.

But this must also be a two-pronged approach. Mandatory rigourous training, saftey courses and strict backround checks must be enforced so we have a responsible well-armed population.
For political reasons this would be good, after all political power truly grows out of the barrel of a rifle.

However, what liberals don't seem to understand is that America doesnt have a gun problem; guns have an America problem. But part of fixing this problem is changing the way we deal with guns. Let the responsible, law-abiding citizens have their guns and make sure they get their training and proper evaluations.

But the bigger problem that leads to mass shootings, gun violence and gangs is the poverty, alienation, humiliation and mental illness caused largely by our precious capitalist system.

Bad guys don't target people they are afraid of. They only target people who they perceive to be at a significant disadvantage.

"God made man...Col. Colt made them equal."

 

[Absentglare]

First.. what Rucker61 posted..

And now the fact that Japan has much higher suicide rate than the US.. but has almost no access to guns.

That means the correlation is not incontrovertible.

You're confused if you think guns are an exclusive means of suicide.

 

[TurtleDude]

None of your opinion above denies that gun possession correlates to higher rates of suicide.

I couldn't care less. I am not willing to piss on constitutional rights EVEN if you could prove it would decrease the rate of suicide

 

[ChezC3]

One gun isn't enough. One gun for every member of the household. That's a start. Rifle, Shotgun, and Pistol for every member of the household even better.

 

[TurtleDude]

Again, you aren't contesting the relationship between guns and deaths, you're contesting what should be done with this information.

I am contesting that suicides would be measurably lower if guns were banned. I also find suicide rates irrelevant when discussing our rights to own firearms

 

[Rucker61]

Nothing. The other poster didn't claim that we should outlaw guns, they were simply arguing that you're less likely to die if you don't have one in your home.

How less likely?

 

[Absentglare]

I couldn't care less. I am not willing to piss on constitutional rights EVEN if you could prove it would decrease the rate of suicide

That's fine.

I'm going to either possess a gun or not possess a gun, and whether i choose to is independent of what anyone else thinks. I couldn't give less of a **** that someone thinks we'd be safer with a gun in every household, i'll go ahead and do whatever the hell i want.

 

[Rucker61]

That's fine.

I'm going to either possess a gun or not possess a gun, and whether i choose to is independent of what anyone else thinks. I couldn't give less of a **** that someone thinks we'd be safer with a gun in every household, i'll go ahead and do whatever the hell i want.

For those potential gun owners who think, "I'll never commit suicide", any possible, slight increase to a suicide rate shouldn't be a decision factor. For those who say, "Gee, I might use one to kill myself on day", they shouldn't own one.

 

[Absentglare]

How less likely?

Enough to reject the argument that i should be forced to possess a firearm in the name of safety.

 

[Rucker61]

Enough to reject the argument that i should be forced to possess a firearm in the name of safety.

Perhaps I missed something early, but was being forced to possess a firearm in the name a safety a possibility under discussion?

 

[Lursa]

None of your opinion above denies that gun possession correlates to higher rates of suicide.

I fail to see how this (gun-related suicide) is an issue that all other gun-owning Americans should be punished for. It does not pose a threat to public safety.

Can you explain that to me?

 

[TurtleDude]

That's fine.

I'm going to either possess a gun or not possess a gun, and whether i choose to is independent of what anyone else thinks. I couldn't give less of a **** that someone thinks we'd be safer with a gun in every household, i'll go ahead and do whatever the hell i want.

now you are learning.