Proof God Exists: Here is my 11-Step Logical Proof. Enjoy.

[calamity]

So your god is a monster, got it.

The Old Testament clearly shows this to be a fact.

 

[Logicman]

Good more christian fables I see about Obama (who as we all know is a christian)...

Some Christian. Advocates murdering the innocent unborn, turns America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah, and Obama is the "Most Biblically-Hostile U.S. President ever:

America’s Most Biblically-Hostile U. S. President - WallBuilders

 

[calamity]

A little misleading, both are nuts, but the Qur'an is far nuttier.
They took biblical stories, already nuts, and made them crazier.
And you have to know the correct way to read the Qur'an to learn what can be learned.

Also the teachings and deeds of Muhammed are pure evil.

As least Jesus, weather you believe in him or not, was a pretty decent character.
Muhammed was a genuine POS.

Bold is easy to understand.

Quran was written by conquerors while the New Testament was written by the conquered.

 

[Peter King]

A little misleading, both are nuts, but the Qur'an is far nuttier.
They took biblical stories, already nuts, and made them crazier.
And you have to know the correct way to read the Qur'an to learn what can be learned.

Also the teachings and deeds of Muhammed are pure evil.

As least Jesus, weather you believe in him or not, was a pretty decent character.
Muhammed was a genuine POS.

Except Muhammed did not live in Judea and if he lived, he lived many centuries later. You cannot compare the life of someone who lives in the Roman empire to that who lived in the middle east like Muhammed. He was not just a prophet but also a leader of people. Just like the first Jews to live in Judea had to live with a lot of violence to establish their people and religion.

And the teachings of Muhammed are no worse than those the of the old testament.

 

[Mashmont]

So your god is a monster, got it.

These gays did it to themselves. They made the choice to commit immoral sex acts.

It's like falling off a building, then blaming God for gravity.

 

[Peter King]

Some Christian. Advocates murdering the innocent unborn, turns America into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah, and Obama is the "Most Biblically-Hostile U.S. President ever:

America’s Most Biblically-Hostile U. S. President - WallBuilders

Yes, christian, a whole damned better christian than the Donald is or those who follow him like he is the second coming of christ (more like the second coming of a wicked person).

And he did what Roe v. Wade had given as the law of the land. And sorry, but the US has been a deeply schizophrenic society between the extremely religion and the extremely deviant. Obama did not make the US into that country. But again, your hatred of him speaks volumes here.

 

[ataraxia]

Any literal reading of the Bible shows it to be no less crazy than the Quran. There's some reasonable stuff in the N/T, but it in no way makes up for the horrific descriptions and doctrines written in the O/T.

So if Christians and Jews can learn to interpret their holy book so they can fit into the modern world, I am sure so too can Muslims. You just have to fix the real underlying problems, which are political, cultural, economic.

 

[Peter King]

These gays did it to themselves. They made the choice to commit immoral sex acts.

It's like falling off a building, then blaming God for gravity.

No, this has nothing with gays doing it to themselves, nature did this to the gays. They choose to have sex in the only manner that is available to them. If you feel that is immoral than so bit it. Still does not change the fact that if your god did this than he is a monster.

The bible is filled with these monstrous acts from this so called good god.

 

[calamity]

So if Christians and Jews can learn to interpret their holy book so they can fit into the modern world, I am sure so too can Muslims. You just have to fix the real underlying problems, which are political, cultural, economic.

As our society degrades so too will Christianity devolve back to its old ways. Just look at Russia. It won't take much to start burning "witches" again and throwing gays off rooftops. Hell, they already want to.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

So if Christians and Jews can learn to interpret their holy book so they can fit into the modern world, I am sure so too can Muslims. You just have to fix the real underlying problems, which are political, cultural, economic.

Wrong.
The Qur'an is a literary nightmare, and interpretation is not the problem.
Manipulation is the problem.

The bios of Muhammed are written as plain as day, and need no interpretation, and they are not going to change.
The deeds of Muhammed are the underlying problem.

 

[ataraxia]

Wrong.
The Qur'an is a literary nightmare, and interpretation is not the problem.
Manipulation is the problem.

The bios of Muhammed are written as plain as day, and need no interpretation, and they are not going to change.
The deeds of Muhammed are the underlying problem.

This passage is directly from the NT:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
Corinthians 14:34-35

It seems the text is plain as day, and leaves no room for interpretation. So why do modern Christian women talk so much in church?

 

[ataraxia]

Wrong.
The Qur'an is a literary nightmare, and interpretation is not the problem.
Manipulation is the problem.

The bios of Muhammed are written as plain as day, and need no interpretation, and they are not going to change.
The deeds of Muhammed are the underlying problem.

How do you interpret these Biblical passages to have them come out saying that slavery is wrong?

Although an owner could beat a male or female slave, she/he would have to avoid serious injury to eyes or teeth. The owner would have to avoid beating the slave to death. But it was acceptable to beat a slave so severely that it only disabled him or her for two days:
Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property]."

Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

A man who rapes or engages in consensual sex with a female slave who is engaged to be married to another man must sacrifice an animal in the temple in order to obtain God's forgiveness. The female slave would be whipped (don't ask me why a woman who had just been raped would then be whipped on top of it. But that's what God wanted, apparently). There is apparently no punishment or ritual animal killing required if the female slave were not engaged; men could rape such slaves with impunity.
Leviticus 19:20-22: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."

 

[ataraxia]

From the Bible:

Being property, female slaves could be required to engage in sexual intercourse and become pregnant against their will. The perpetrator could be their owner, or anyone that their owner designates:

Genesis 16:1-2: "Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai."

Genesis 30:3-4: "And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her."

Genesis 30:9-10: "When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son."

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Slavery existed since the beginning of time in all cultures.

You are using Jewish writings pretending they are Christian, but there is still slavery in Jesus time.

also slavery was justified in America from the curse of Hamm, ( actually the curse of Cannan) from the OT.

However I think Islam is the only major religion that still honors it.

 

[calamity]

Slavery existed since the beginning of time in all cultures.

You are using Jewish writings pretending they are Christian, but there is still slavery in Jesus time.

also slavery was justified in America from the curse of Hamm, ( actually the curse of Cannan) from the OT.

However I think Islam is the only major religion that still honors it.

Five minutes on Twitter, reading the threads begun by outspoken women, Jews or Gays tells you all you need to know about where the Christian mob would go if not restrained by strong secular laws against zealot-driven violence.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Five minutes on Twitter, reading the threads begun by outspoken women, Jews or Gays tells you all you need to know about where the Christian mob would go if not restrained by strong secular laws against zealot-driven violence.

Just using the " all you need to know" comment, indicates you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[ataraxia]

Slavery existed since the beginning of time in all cultures.

You are using Jewish writings pretending they are Christian, but there is still slavery in Jesus time.

also slavery was justified in America from the curse of Hamm, ( actually the curse of Cannan) from the OT.

However I think Islam is the only major religion that still honors it.

Slavery is illegal in all modern Islamic countries.

But the point is that Christians and Jews have learned to "interpret" those scriptural passages to have them not condoning actual slavery ("oh, those are just historical accounts, not commands, etc..."). But they do that now because the real underlying reasons for slavery have been removed (industrialization, advancing economies, political systems with separation of church and state, better systems of law and order, etc...). It's not because they learned to read their scripture any better.

So what makes you think Muslims are fundamentally different?

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Slavery is illegal in all modern Islamic countries.

But the point is that Christians and Jews have learned to "interpret" those scriptural passages to have them not condoning actual slavery ("oh, those are just historical accounts, not commands, etc..."). But they do that now because the real underlying reasons for slavery have been removed (industrialization, advancing economies, political systems with separation of church and state, better systems of law and order, etc...). It's not because they learned to read their scripture any better.

So what makes you think Muslims are fundamentally different?

It was just about 5 years ago when a Saudi prince killed his slave enroute to Europe.
Unluckly for him, he did it on the European side and is serving life as we speak.
No, slavery is condoned by God's law, sharia, and will always exist in Muslim countries.
They are still taking sex slaves from the Kurds.

And Muslims are human beings, It is Islam that is different, and draws Muslims into it.
Islam has written orders from God to kill you, me, and our families, and when God makes the orders,
to a religiously brainwashed group, you will have a higher percentage of people who follow it.

 

[ataraxia]

Slavery existed since the beginning of time in all cultures.

You are using Jewish writings pretending they are Christian, but there is still slavery in Jesus time.

also slavery was justified in America from the curse of Hamm, ( actually the curse of Cannan) from the OT.

No, when Christians want slavery, it can be justified scripturally with far more than THAT. Heck you can use the 10 commandments to justify it:

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts."
-Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America.

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral."
-Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example."
-Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina

"... under the same protection as any other species of lawful property...That the Ten Commandments are the word of G-d, and as such, of the very highest authority, is acknowledged by Christians as well as by Jews...How dare you, in the face of the sanction and protection afforded to slave property in the Ten Commandments--how dare you denounce slaveholding as a sin? When you remember that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job--the men with whom the Almighty conversed, with whose names he emphatically connects his own most holy name, and to whom He vouchsafed to give the character of 'perfect, upright, fearing G-d and eschewing evil' (Job 1:8)--that all these men were slaveholders, does it not strike you that you are guilty of something very little short of blasphemy?"
-MJ Raphall, 1861

 

[Daisy]

And Jesus told his followers they need to kill non-believers when he said the OT laws were still in effect. And most Christians know little about the religion itself.

Christianity and Islam are two sides of the same coin.

Yank...yank...yank...:2razz:

 

[Daisy]

I'm still waiting for the supposed many peaceful Christians to openly condemn and deplore Christian-inspired terrorists, crusaders and terrorism.

That's a given on my part...it is not the Christian way...

 

[Yasureoktoo]

No, when Christians want slavery, it can be justified scripturally with far more than THAT. Heck you can use the 10 commandments to justify it:

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts."
-Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America.

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral."
-Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example."
-Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina

"... under the same protection as any other species of lawful property...That the Ten Commandments are the word of G-d, and as such, of the very highest authority, is acknowledged by Christians as well as by Jews...How dare you, in the face of the sanction and protection afforded to slave property in the Ten Commandments--how dare you denounce slaveholding as a sin? When you remember that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job--the men with whom the Almighty conversed, with whose names he emphatically connects his own most holy name, and to whom He vouchsafed to give the character of 'perfect, upright, fearing G-d and eschewing evil' (Job 1:8)--that all these men were slaveholders, does it not strike you that you are guilty of something very little short of blasphemy?"
-MJ Raphall, 1861

How do the 10 commandments justify it.
The curse of Hamm does.
as I said, most of the slavery stuff is in the Jewish OT. but does exist in Jesus time.
Jesus in fact asks to treat them a little better.

 

[Daisy]

I don't know any Christian-inspired terrorists. That doesn't make sense. Jesus never preached nor inspired terrorism.

The Crusades...

 

[Daisy]

When did Jesus tell His followers to kill unbelievers? Verse, please?

He didn't...so why did they try to wipe out those who believed certain truths of the Bible they didn't agree with for political reasons?

 

[Daisy]

Well, let's test that. I find atheists usually know the bible far better than most Christians. I can tell from your posts you don't know your bible very well.



Yeah, Yahweh orders all that, much of it as part of OT law, although it's not Jesus doing it, obviously. Jesus is the one ordering non-believers to be killed.

Jesus said that OT laws are still in effect:

Matthew 5:18 (OT Laws are Still in Effect)
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.



And killing non-believers, that's OT law.

Deuteronomy 13:13-19 (OT Law Says Kill Non-Believers)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.”



Christianity and Islam, two sides of the same coin. Both say adherents should kill non-believers.

Yank...yank...yank...:2razz: