Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.[W:963:1176:1448]

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

My debate tactic is to argue within the realm of political economy, when discussing topics specific to political economy.



Your opinion has been regurgitated ad nauseum.

Your posts try to prove your philosophy through irrelevant facts

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

compared to the USA before the stench of the New Deal was farted upon our nation

Show us the numbers. As a percent of GDP.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Show us the numbers. As a percent of GDP.

That's a silly request. Before the ND, we didn't have farmers being penalized for NOT growing wheat. We didn't have federal gun control laws.

 

[PMZ]

From Wikipedia.

John Maynard Keynes was one of the first economists to advocate government deficit spending as part of the fiscal policy response to an economic contraction. In Keynesian economics, increased government spending is thought to raise aggregate demand and increase consumption, which in turn leads to increased production. Keynesian economists argue that the Great Depression was ended by government spending programs such as the New Deal and military spending during World War II. According to the Keynesian view, a severe recession or depression may never end if the government does not intervene. Classical economists, on the other hand, believe that increased government spending exacerbates an economic contraction by shifting resources from the private sector, which they consider productive, to the public sector, which they consider unproductive.
Government spending can be financed by seigniorage, taxes, or government borrowing.

Apparently conservatives love depressions and recessions. They make labor so cheap. So much opportunity picking over the bones of others.

 

[TurtleDude]

From Wikipedia.

John Maynard Keynes was one of the first economists to advocate government deficit spending as part of the fiscal policy response to an economic contraction. In Keynesian economics, increased government spending is thought to raise aggregate demand and increase consumption, which in turn leads to increased production. Keynesian economists argue that the Great Depression was ended by government spending programs such as the New Deal and military spending during World War II. According to the Keynesian view, a severe recession or depression may never end if the government does not intervene. Classical economists, on the other hand, believe that increased government spending exacerbates an economic contraction by shifting resources from the private sector, which they consider productive, to the public sector, which they consider unproductive.
Government spending can be financed by seigniorage, taxes, or government borrowing.

Apparently conservatives love depressions and recessions. They make labor so cheap. So much opportunity picking over the bones of others.

Liberals love taking credit for "charity" they forced others to pay for

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

The New Deal kept things crappy for years and the stench of that nonsense remains to this day

Yeah, the American economy's really done terribly in the eighty years since the New Deal was implemented, huh?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Yeah, the American economy's really done terribly in the eighty years since the New Deal was implemented, huh?

ITs a house of cards that cannot last forever. people who think like you will continually demand more and more government paid for by the "rich". and one day when the money runs out, people who think like you will be really angry that the public teat has run dry. THose dependent on said teats are going to be unable to cope

at that point TSHTF

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

ITs a house of cards that cannot last forever. people who think like you will continually demand more and more government paid for by the "rich". and one day when the money runs out, people who think like you will be really angry that the public teat has run dry. THose dependent on said teats are going to be unable to cope

at that point TSHTF

Wealth doesn't "run out" as long as there are skilled workers with productive tools adding value to raw materials and energy to make products (goods and services) that customers feel add comfort or satisfaction to their lives.

What would run out?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Wealth doesn't "run out" as long as there are skilled workers with productive tools adding value to raw materials and energy to make products (goods and services) that customers feel add comfort or satisfaction to their lives.

What would run out?

the money of those hit with increasing tax hikes. They will either leave or stop paying. Right now the top 5% pay more income taxes than the rest of the country combined. And we sure don't use more than half the stuff paid for by those taxes

 

[Tetelestai]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.[W:1176]

Progressive taxation is impossible without one thing and that is gross violation of property rights.

When one has progressive taxation the government must do precisely what it does today. Every dime you earn or make has to be reported to or scrutinized by the government. They have the right to invade every nook and cranny searching for that indeclared or unreported dollar you stashed away. Without any due process or probable cause or even warrant they may look into every account, every safety deposit box, every sock drawer and under every matress. If they find you have some unreported $ they not only tax it but penalize you.

So accoring to progressives we have the right to privacy when it comes to matters like sex. It is not ones business, least of all the governments, who I sleep with or what films I watch at home ( I agree ). But the money I earn from my labor is everyone's business, especially the governments, and I have no right whatsoever to hide any of it.

Explain how this is moral?

It's not moral. Everybody understands we need to pay some taxes. There would be no military or any other essential service that the country needs. But todays progressive liberals go way beyond that which is really needed for government and even to help those that are in need. Capitalism works best when we allow business owners to keep a large part of what they earn. These business' then have the money for research and development, opening new locations and hiring a lot more people. All this, in turn, causes tax revenues to increase and less people on public assistance. As it is now, US taxes are the highest in the world. This is causing a downward spiral. You see, business owners don't take a pay cut unless they absolutely have to. So, they don't hire, don't expand, and raise prices. In fact, many are moving their business' over seas where labor is cheaper and taxes are lower, thus keeping their pay higher. The progressives are quite literally destroying the economy of the US and assuring that the poor remain poor and that, eventually, the rich will move out and the remaining people will be poor.

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

the money of those hit with increasing tax hikes. They will either leave or stop paying. Right now the top 5% pay more income taxes than the rest of the country combined. And we sure don't use more than half the stuff paid for by those taxes

You pay in proportion to the wealth that you have. what could be fairer than that?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

You pay in proportion to the wealth that you have. what could be fairer than that?

1) a tax on wealth is idiotic

2) the wealthy pay far more of the income tax than their share of the income

People should pay for what they use

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

1) a tax on wealth is idiotic

2) the wealthy pay far more of the income tax than their share of the income

People should pay for what they use

People pay in proportion to the wealth that they have even though the tax is on income. It just works out that way. What could be fairer than that?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

People pay in proportion to the wealth that they have even though the tax is on income. It just works out that way. What could be fairer than that?

paying for what you use

and you are incorrect The top 5% pay far higher tax proportions

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

You pay in proportion to the wealth that you have. what could be fairer than that?

Are you kidding me? What would be "fair" is a single federal income tax rate applied to income, from all sources, after a truly standard (as in the same for every tax return) deduction. If you do not advocate that license plates, national park admission, lottery tickets or bus fare being priced based on the customer's wealth then why advocate different income tax rates?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Are you kidding me? What would be "fair" is a single federal income tax rate applied to income, from all sources, after a truly standard (as in the same for every tax return) deduction. If you do not license plates, lottery tickets or bus fare being priced based on the customer's wealth then why advocate different income tax rates?

progressive tax rates are nothing more than a scheme scumbag politicians made up that allows them to pander to the maximum number of voters

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Are you kidding me? What would be "fair" is a single federal income tax rate applied to income, from all sources, after a truly standard (as in the same for every tax return) deduction. If you do not advocate that license plates, national park admission, lottery tickets or bus fare being priced based on the customer's wealth then why advocate different income tax rates?

Everybody, equal pain in paying your taxes would be fair. In that case you'd be paying a whole lot more.

Wealthy people don't know about skipping necessities to pay your bills. They don't know about working hard. They don't know about going without. They don't know about tough decisions.

Until they do, our taxes aren't fair.

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

progressive tax rates are nothing more than a scheme scumbag politicians made up that allows them to pander to the maximum number of voters

Do you think that anybody cares about your whining?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Everybody, equal pain in paying your taxes would be fair. In that case you'd be paying a whole lot more.

Wealthy people don't know about skipping necessities to pay your bills. They don't know about working hard. They don't know about going without. They don't know about tough decisions.

Until they do, our taxes aren't fair.

that's idiotic I pay a hundred dollars or more for each dollar I get in return. Half the country pays less than a few pennies for every dollar

You seem to think the purpose of taxes is to make life equally miserable for everyone

Why would us rich agree to such a government?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Do you think that anybody cares about your whining?

Its you, by definition who whines. I am rich and I don't need others to pay for my existence. Your posts, on the other hand, constantly complain about the wealthy

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

that's idiotic I pay a hundred dollars or more for each dollar I get in return. Half the country pays less than a few pennies for every dollar

You seem to think the purpose of taxes is to make life equally miserable for everyone

Why would us rich agree to such a government?

I don't expect you to agree. You're all about what's yours. That's fine with me. But, we want you to know what it's like to feel your bills. What it's like to have to work. What it's like to feel pressure. It's the least that we can do for you.

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Its you, by definition who whines. I am rich and I don't need others to pay for my existence. Your posts, on the other hand, constantly complain about the wealthy

So, you whine. What we expect from those who feel entitled.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I don't expect you to agree. You're all about what's yours. That's fine with me. But, we want you to know what it's like to feel your bills. What it's like to have to work. What it's like to feel pressure. It's the least that we can do for you.

that isn't a legitimate function of government

but that post of yours demonstrates some really disturbing desires to "afflict the comfortable"

That is why one day I hope liberal wealthy understand this sort of mindset and unite with the rest of us who value freedom to put an end to such attitudes having any power in our society

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

So, you whine. What we expect from those who feel entitled.

I am not the one demanding others pay for me. you seem to think that you are entitled to others wealth or you have a right to afflict your misery on others

 

[PMZ]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

that isn't a legitimate function of government

but that post of yours demonstrates some really disturbing desires to "afflict the comfortable"

That is why one day I hope liberal wealthy understand this sort of mindset and unite with the rest of us who value freedom to put an end to such attitudes having any power in our society

It's a very legitimate function of government.

Equal pain among taxpayers. What could be more fair?