"Pro-Life"

[GEIxBattleRifle]

There are some hardcore specieists up in here.

 

[JayDubya]

lol "speciesism" lol


Yeah, that's about all the response that term deserves.

 

[AGENT J]

Please, by all means-- enlighten me.



Legal protection should begin at birth.



You apparently define 'people' as merely organisms which have human DNA. I do not.



Abortion is not homicide.

calling abortion homicide is nothing more than opinion and this fact has been proven many times by many people and by many links to FACTS,

If a person disagrees with you. and they dont think that its nothing more than OPINION simply ask them to use facts to back up their claim. They will fail every single time.

 

[choiceone]

My thoughts are twofold. If one believes in ethical nihilism, then one won't feel that killing fetuses is wrong. But on the other hand, if I am a human, shouldn't I value human life more than freedom? Is life more precious than freedom?

Regarding wars, I feel war should only be an option for matters of defense. Are we the saviors of the world? Is it our duty to liberate people in other nations from tyranny?

As for lives born in poverty, it's a gamble. Does a life born in squalor always die in squalor?

Should I value human life more than freedom? Did Patrick Henry value it above freedom? Go read the close of the Declaration of Independence: "To this we pledge our lives, our swords, and our sacred honor." To those guys, honor was sacred and life wasn't. Without freedom, there can be no honor, because honor is all about controlling what one's own body does. When your own body does what you yourself think is a violation of your honor and you cannot stop it, you might as well just give up your life.

 

[Henrin]

A single cell is created at fertilization. That's not a person.

I said a "human being" which is the correct term to use.

Of course you think that term is meaningless. It's too inconvenient for your argument.

Take a moment to look up the term. It's defined differently depending on who you talk too.

It is. Two humans mate and the byproduct of the mating is a zef. I'm sorry if that isn't romantic enough for you.

It is a great deal more than that and you know it. Insulting comments doesn't change anything.

lol I thought the term person was meaningless.

Well if you want to get picky here are some links to prove to you I was right.

Homicide Definition - FindLaw
Homicide - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
homicide - Legal Definition
homicide legal definition of homicide. homicide synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Would you like to admit you're wrong yet?

 

[AGENT J]

1.) I said a "human being" which is the correct term to use.



Take a moment to look up the term. It's defined differently depending on who you talk too.




It is a great deal more than that and you know it. Insulting comments doesn't change anything.



2.)Well if you want to get picky here are some links to prove to you I was right.

Homicide Definition - FindLaw
Homicide - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
homicide - Legal Definition
homicide legal definition of homicide. homicide synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Would you like to admit you're wrong yet?

Nobody is wrong except anybody that said a zygote is a human being and called that a "fact" thats an OPINION

1.) nope, OPINION, this has been proven many times by many posters with medical/science/dictionary links
2.) those links actual prove that its an OPINION

heres some more

homicide noun - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online
homicide - definition. American English definition of homicide by Macmillan Dictionary
American Heritage Dictionary Entry: homicide
Homicide | Define Homicide at Dictionary.com

Heck a couple of these dont even allow homicide to be used in any legal fashion, its only uses it as murder/illegal/crime which further cements that calling abortion homicide is 100% opinion.

Now I cant call you wrong if you admit its only your opinion but once you call it "factual" you are 100% wrong :shrug:

 

[Henrin]

Nobody is wrong except anybody that said a zygote is a human being and called that a "fact" thats an OPINION

human being
n.
A human.

human being
n
a member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child

Child
[chahyld] Show IPA
noun, plural chil·dren.
1.
a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.
2.
a son or daughter: All my children are married.
3.
a baby or infant.
4.
a human fetus.
5.
a childish person: He's such a child about money.

What were you saying again?

2.) those links actual prove that its an OPINION

How? They went out of their way to say any killing of human being by another human being is homicide legal or not. I even provided links that explained it in detail.

Btw, is there any reason you provided a link that says exactly what I was saying..

hom·i·cide
[hom-uh-sahyd, hoh-muh-] Show IPA
noun
1.
the killing of one human being by another.
2.
a person who kills another; murderer.

Notice how both uses are there?

 

[mac]

Ain't it ironic that the vast majority of folks who uphold the "sanctity of life" are also the same people who support going to war and bombing other nations, both of which inevitably result in deaths on both sides? These folks fight tooth-and-nail to defend the right to life of fetuses, yet when they're born, they are unwilling to support programs to raise these children, most of whom are born into poor/working class families: Head Start, social welfare, food stamps, the works.

I put forth this notion: you are not pro-life unless you oppose war. You are not pro-life if you fight for a child's right to be born, and then promptly dismiss the needs of the children born into families earning under $50,000 a year. I suppose you could dismiss the second requisite, but the first is vital if people want to continue touting the "pro-life" label.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you overgeneralize to make the opposition fit your bias. Pro-life describes people that oppose induced abortion, nothing else.

 

[AGENT J]

human being
n.
A human.

human being
n
a member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child

Child
[chahyld] Show IPA
noun, plural chil·dren.
1.
a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.
2.
a son or daughter: All my children are married.
3.
a baby or infant.
4.
a human fetus.
5.
a childish person: He's such a child about money.

What were you saying again?



How? They went out of their way to say any killing of human being by another human being is homicide legal or not. I even provided links that explained it in detail.

1.)thanks AGAIN for proving my EXACT point LMAO


SOME definitions humban being, dont allow anything preborn to be included, and SOME the minority allow some room for preborn and specifically mention FETUS which would by definition exclude zygote and embryo, and even more of a minority, ive only seen one allows all preborn by saying "unborn"

2.) because human being definition is subjective and all the homicide definitions dont say human (which is subjective), some say person and some say it has to be illegal or criminal as provide by YES your own links and mine.


SOrry the fact remains its OPINION and not factual :shrug:

 

[Henrin]

1.)thanks AGAIN for proving my EXACT point LMAO


SOME definitions humban being, dont allow anything preborn to be included, and SOME the minority allow some room for preborn and specifically mention FETUS which would by definition exclude zygote and embryo, and even more of a minority, ive only seen one allows all preborn by saying "unborn"

Perhaps it wasn't the best source, but child and therefore human being does include all unborn. That is a fact. I can provide a better source but you seem to want to argue that bad sources that somehow leave it out prove you right. Is that actual logic you are using there or are you just hoping it passes for it? Does it really make sense that something joins the species in the middle of pregnancy, lol?

What the hell here is what it says on merriam-webster

a : an unborn or recently born person
b dialect : a female infant
2
a : a young person especially between infancy and youth
b : a childlike or childish person
c : a person not yet of age

Then google

A young human being below the age of full physical development or below the legal age of majority.
A son or daughter of any age. (which btw, includes all ages lol)

Are you really going to picky that the term was fetus? "I win because you said fetus!" Weak.

2.) because human being definition is subjective and all the homicide definitions dont say human (which is subjective), some say person and some say it has to be illegal or criminal as provide by YES your own links and mine.

Keep thinking you are right, lol.

 

[JayDubya]

Let me get out my crystal ball here for you Henrin:

"Some sources use the definition you have already quoted, but some don't, therefore the definition does not include anything you have already sourced, because LMAO NUH-UNH :fart."

There's a reason why you shouldn't even humor the requests of some people - they're not here to have the discussion. They're not even here to spew emotion. There's only one logical reason someone would post that way.

 

[AGENT J]

Perhaps it wasn't the best source, but child and therefore human being does include all unborn. That is a fact. I can provide a better source but you seem to want to argue that bad sources that somehow leave it out prove you right. Is that actual logic you are using there or are you just hoping it passes for it?

What the hell here is what it says on merriam-webster

a : an unborn or recently born person
b dialect : a female infant
2
a : a young person especially between infancy and youth
b : a childlike or childish person
c : a person not yet of age

Then google

A young human being below the age of full physical development or below the legal age of majority.
A son or daughter of any age. (which btw, includes all ages lol)

Are you really going to picky that the term was fetus? "I win because you said fetus!" Weak.




2.)Keep thinking you are right, lol.

are you actually suggesting cause you can find ONE source that fits what YOU like and yet you, me and others have posted other sources that dont fit what you like that only the ONE source you like is relevant?

LMAO

sorry facts and reality dont work that way, the fact that all the links dont match is what makes it factually OPINION.

Unless you know some hierarchy that says websters is better tha oxford but macmillian is better than them both but freedicitionary is king of them all thats pure broken logic and dishonesty.
Thanks for again admitting that different sources say different things proving the reality and fact that its only your opinion.

2.) has nothing to do with what i think or what my opinion is, facts dont care about that, they just are and the facts is calling abortion homicide is 100% opinion as proven with the links here and many other links provide by many other posters

sorry that bothers you :shrug:

 

[AGENT J]

Let me get out my crystal ball here for you Henrin:

"Some sources use the definition you have already quoted, but some don't, therefore the definition does not include anything you have already sourced, because LMAO NUH-UNH :fart."

There's a reason why you shouldn't even humor the requests of some people - they're not here to have the discussion. They're not even here to spew emotion. There's only one logical reason someone would post that way.

You guessed wrong, i use facts and proof, feel free to use your own, we all have been waiting years

 

[JayDubya]

You guessed wrong, i use facts and proof, feel free to use your own, we all have been waiting years

I wasn't guessing.

And hey, look at that, the above post was 100% "LMAO NUH-UNH :fart."

 

[Henrin]

are you actually suggesting cause you can find ONE source that fits what YOU like and yet you, me and others have posted other sources that dont fit what you like that only the ONE source you like is relevant?

LMAO

Sorry, but you just like playing this retarded again of relying on people that are wrong to prove you right. Its rather stupid to argue against scientific fact with bull**** like you do, but it is pretty funny. That is not a child! That is not part of the human species! lol..

Keep making a fool of yourself to anyone that knows biology and can use basic logic. Homicide is both legal and illegal and applies to all humans be it defined as a person or not. A child applies to the unborn which includes a zef, a fetus, or an embryo. Just because one source refers to a fetus and above and another says all unborn doesn't mean ****. It just means that one person put down something different than another. The scientific fact is still the same.

Being anal doesn't make you right, but it does make you annoying.

 

[AGENT J]

I wasn't guessing.

And hey, look at that, the above post was 100% "LMAO NUH-UNH :fart."

nope facts and links

 

[AGENT J]

Sorry, but you just like playing this retarded again of relying on people that are wrong to prove you right. Its rather stupid to argue against scientific fact with bull**** like you do, but it is pretty funny. That is not a child! That is not part of the human species! lol..

Keep making a fool of yourself to anyone that knows biology.Keep being wrong, O-J.

I agree 100% it is stupid to argue against scientific fact, not sure why you are choosing to do it
fact remains calling abortion homicide is opinion has proven by facts and links and in other threads you have been involved in medical/SCIENTIFIC/ and dictionary links.

feel free to try and prove it wrong because you have failed every time
Im totally fine with not being biased and accepting ALL the data and facts and theory i read instead just the stuff i like, guess your not :shrug:

 

[Henrin]

I agree 100% it is stupid to argue against scientific fact, not sure why you are choosing to do it
fact remains calling abortion homicide is opinion has proven by facts and links and in other threads you have been involved in medical/SCIENTIFIC/ and dictionary links.

You mean other homicide is both illegal and legal and has been shown applies to all human beings be it called a person or not? Yeah, that has been shown alright.

 

[JayDubya]

You mean other homicide is both illegal and legal and has been shown applies to all human beings be it called a person or not? Yeah, that has been shown alright.

Ad nauseum, here and other places. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him refrain from LMAO NUH-UNH :fart.

 

[AGENT J]

You mean other homicide is both illegal and legal and has been shown applies to all human beings be it called a person or not? Yeah, that has been shown alright.

Yes that is correct.

Some definition of homicide are legal, some say its only illegal
some of the definitions say human beings some say person

Some definitons of human beings do not allow for anything preborn, some do down to fetus one i seen said unborn

some definitions of person use the law definitions, some do not and do not allow it to cover the unborn, some do

so yes all that has been shown which factually makes it all subjective pinion, thanks again for proving the facts and my point. :shrug:

 

[Henrin]

Yes that is correct.

Some definition of homicide are legal, some say its only illegal
some of the definitions say human beings some say person

Some definitons of human beings do not allow for anything preborn, some do down to fetus one i seen said unborn

some definitions of person use the law definitions, some do not and do not allow it to cover the unborn, some do

so yes all that has been shown which factually makes it all subjective pinion, thanks again for proving the facts and my point. :shrug:

Really? :doh I get the feeling you are new to this entire thing.

 

[AGENT J]

Really? :doh I get the feeling you are new to this entire thing.

Have any feeling you want

facts dont change based on your feelings or opinions

if you disagree please feel free to use facts to support your false calim and remember it has to be FACTS and then you have to show why your facts trump the other links/facts many others have posted :shrug: should be easy right? I mean you insist that you are right, shouldnt be hard to prove.

 

[Henrin]

Have any feeling you want

facts dont change based on your feelings or opinions

They sure don't. Your opinion that you can rely on your broken logic means nothing to the facts of the matter. It is a human being, it is a child, and homicide is both illegal and legal and has been shown applies to all human being defined as a person or not.

Anything else?

 

[Atreus21]

Killing is inevitable, and there is little society can do to prevent it. If parents can murder their children and get away with it, how can abortion be prevented? Furthermore, why should the government step in and force women to remain pregnant? And how would such a law be enforced? Before abortion became legal, women went to unlicensed providers and had unsafe abortions. The unborn suffered a far worse fate in those places than now where it is more humane.

Government already steps in and forces people not to kill other people. Same logic applies to killing your unborn child.

Consciousness isn't possible until the third trimester. Such abortions are exceedingly rare.

Irrelevant. Consciousness doesn't determine whether or not someone is a human being. And murder isn't rendered less murderous when it is committed rarely.

If the abortion is done in the first trimester, as most are, the zef feels nothing. It has the beginnings of a brain stem and nervous system with no conscious thought or perception. It cannot miss a life it has not yet lived, nor can it "feel" one way or the other about it.

Again, irrelevant. Killing is killing, irrespective of one's ability to be conscious of his or her death. Should we excuse murderers who induce comas in their victims before the killing stroke?

 

[Alyssa]

I said a "human being" which is the correct term to use.



Take a moment to look up the term. It's defined differently depending on who you talk too.




It is a great deal more than that and you know it. Insulting comments doesn't change anything.



Well if you want to get picky here are some links to prove to you I was right.

Homicide Definition - FindLaw
Homicide - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
homicide - Legal Definition
homicide legal definition of homicide. homicide synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Would you like to admit you're wrong yet?

Semantics won't help your weak argument. When will you get tired of trying?

No, slaves were not people. "People" means nothing more than whatever the current law says it does. You can't own people; personhood goes hand in hand with having your human right to liberty protected...

The same can be said about your argument. It's subjective in its entirely.

Nope. That's established scientific fact. Not an opinion. Opinions don't much matter when they contradict scientific fact. If someone asserts to you the law of gravity, and you say "Yeah well, that's just like, your opinion, man," then guess what? No, you're just wrong.

A newly fertilized egg is about the size of the period at the end of this sentence. A single cell does not take priority over the woman carrying it. This should be obvious to all but the most misogynist individuals.

Sorry, you can't disagree.

:roll: I hate to pee in your corn flakes, but I can. This isn't the Middle East and I'm not wearing a burka.

See now THAT is an opinion. And I disagree. Because if you're that psychotic and selfishly destructive, with that little regard for the human rights of others, it's everyone's business - we're better off with you locked up where you can't hurt anyone else. Self-preservation and all.

It sounds as if you are describing your own insufferably intolerant opinions.