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pro-life[W:1119]

Re: pro-life

Did anyone else make any sense out of that word salad?
 
Re: pro-life

Did anyone else make any sense out of that word salad?
WAS I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH? Science fiction teaches humans that non-humans can qualify as persons. Which, relevant to the Overall Abortion Debate, means that the idiocy most often blathered by abortion opponents, the notion that human-ness alone is all that is needed for an entity (like an unborn human) to qualify for personhood, is indeed idiocy.
 
Re: pro-life

WAS I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH? Science fiction teaches humans that non-humans can qualify as persons. Which, relevant to the Overall Abortion Debate, means that the idiocy most often blathered by abortion opponents, the notion that human-ness alone is all that is needed for an entity (like an unborn human) to qualify for personhood, is indeed idiocy.

"Fiction...(something made up in someone else's mind) teaches us that non-humans can qualify as persons."

(For the record, I AM pro-choice, but this right here is uncharted territory)

Uhhhh, yeah okay. (backing away slowly)
 
Re: pro-life

"Fiction...(something made up in someone else's mind) teaches us that non-humans can qualify as persons."
YUP. Just like fiction, such as Aesop's Fables, is often used to teach other things. Ever hear the phrase "the moral of the story"? Are you not aware that that is another made-up thing?

(For the record, I AM pro-choice,
GOOD.

but this right here is uncharted territory)
HAW! HAW!! HAW!!! Not hardly! (as explained above, regarding other fiction)
 
Re: pro-life

"i" dont get to say what murder is, it has a factual definition. So are you saying you cant support your false claim? please let us know when you can, thanks

I am not asking you what laws you are going to make to define murder, I'm asking you, personally, what you believe to be the least heinous act of murder could possibly be. Please don't dodge the question.
I am not trying to insult you or be confrontational, but I find that conversation breeds change, so I'm trying to start one with you.
 
Re: pro-life

1.) I am not asking you what laws you are going to make to define murder
2.) I'm asking you, personally, what you believe to be the least heinous act of murder could possibly be.
3.) Please don't dodge the question.
4.) I am not trying to insult you or be confrontational, but I find that conversation breeds change, so I'm trying to start one with you.

1.) and i didnt tell you what laws im going to make define murder cause i dont make them
2.) like i told you, beliefs arent a factor here. this isnt a question of opinion and feelings its a matter of FACT.
3.) didnt dodge it the first tie i factually answered. You not like the answer is your issue but facts are facts. abortion =/= nurder
4.) not possible and i didnt think that. Im fine with conversation and logic good faith conversation starts with accuracy and honesty. My answer and facts have already been presented. Let me know when you can support your false claim or show integrity and acknowledge your statment is inaccurate. Thanks
 
Re: pro-life

1.) and i didnt tell you what laws im going to make define murder cause i dont make them
2.) like i told you, beliefs arent a factor here. this isnt a question of opinion and feelings its a matter of FACT.
3.) didnt dodge it the first tie i factually answered. You not like the answer is your issue but facts are facts. abortion =/= nurder
4.) not possible and i didnt think that. Im fine with conversation and logic good faith conversation starts with accuracy and honesty. My answer and facts have already been presented. Let me know when you can support your false claim or show integrity and acknowledge your statment is inaccurate. Thanks

You said abortion was not murder. I said it was. To put us both on the same ground, I asked you to tell me what your most lenient definition of the word is, so that I may understand your thought process. Can you please reply and not dodge the question again? Because my second question, what you believe is murder, is the one that you dodged. You answered my original claim that abortion was murder quite vehemently.
 
Re: pro-life

WAS I NOT CLEAR ENOUGH? Science fiction teaches humans that non-humans can qualify as persons. Which, relevant to the Overall Abortion Debate, means that the idiocy most often blathered by abortion opponents, the notion that human-ness alone is all that is needed for an entity (like an unborn human) to qualify for personhood, is indeed idiocy.

The reason this statement is faulty is in your own argument. Science fiction! A perfect example of something that is not real! But even if it were real, would aborting the baby of another species be any less inhumane than aborting our own children?

To me, the potential for life, no matter how insignificant, must be respected. And before you tear into me about what I said in respect to contraception in my other reply, once again, that is not killing a child, but instead, preventing it from even beginning to form. Something that isn't alive can't be killed. Unfortunately, you say that about unborn children, so I find myself in a difficult situation here.
 
Re: pro-life

For the record, I said what I said because I knew that, while it would be polarizing, it would at least spark some discussion that can possibly lead to change. Now can we please all remain rational with our replies?
 
Re: pro-life

1.)You said abortion was not murder.
2.) I said it was.
3.) To put us both on the same ground, I asked you to tell me what your most lenient definition of the word is, so that I may understand your thought process.
4.) Can you please reply and not dodge the question again?
5.) Because my second question, what you believe is murder, is the one that you dodged.
6/) You answered my original claim that abortion was murder quite vehemently.

1.) yes i pointed out a fact support by the definition of the word abortion =/= murder
2.) facts prove you wrong
3.) there is no same ground. Im aware of facts and you arent. the only way to put us on equal ground is fr you to educate yourself and realize this fact. Its not a thought process besides accepting facts. This isnt an opinion issue. I cant abandon facts to come to you uneven ground.
4.) can ask this question 50 times and post the factual lie that im dodging but my answer will be the same and it will never be a dodge. You dont liking facts is your issue.
5.) again this is no dodge. If one is educated and understand hos facts and definition work one understands that beliefs arent a factor here when dealing with facts.
6.) I answer both questions quite vehemently because both answered are based on facts.

again if you dont like these facts thats your issue to get over. I cant play make believe on this issue.
Fact remains:

abortion =/= murder
 
Re: pro-life

1.) yes i pointed out a fact support by the definition of the word abortion =/= murder
2.) facts prove you wrong
3.) there is no same ground. Im aware of facts and you arent. the only way to put us on equal ground is fr you to educate yourself and realize this fact. Its not a thought process besides accepting facts. This isnt an opinion issue. I cant abandon facts to come to you uneven ground.
4.) can ask this question 50 times and post the factual lie that im dodging but my answer will be the same and it will never be a dodge. You dont liking facts is your issue.
5.) again this is no dodge. If one is educated and understand hos facts and definition work one understands that beliefs arent a factor here when dealing with facts.
6.) I answer both questions quite vehemently because both answered are based on facts.

again if you dont like these facts thats your issue to get over. I cant play make believe on this issue.
Fact remains:

abortion =/= murder

On the same ground in our conversation, not necessarily in our beliefs.

Also, if I need to be educated, then please! Educate me! It's what I've been asking you to do for the past hour!
 
Re: pro-life

1.)On the same ground in our conversation, not necessarily in our beliefs.
2.)Also, if I need to be educated, then please! Educate me! It's what I've been asking you to do for the past hour!

1.) I told you how to achieve what we are looking for.
2.) yes obviously you do if you dont know the definition of abortion and murder. If your knowledge is that weak on the topic and you deny facts so obvious i cant help you. Again the issues is yours to work out.
 
Re: pro-life

The reason this statement is faulty is in your own argument. Science fiction!
SEE THAT WORD "SCIENCE"? Science is very real. And for anything to be properly called "science fiction", it must include something that is scientifically accurate. More below.

A perfect example of something that is not real!
HAW! HAW!! HAW!!! It is Objective Fact that the words "person" and "human" represent different and unrelated concepts. Even in things not called science fiction, that Fact has been getting taught to children for generations now. Here's an example from 1951 --if, in that fiction, the non-human was not a legal person, the portrayed legal decision should have been very different.

But even if it were real, would aborting the baby of another species
DEPENDS ON THE SPECIES. When do its members normally acquire the characteristics that generically can be used to distinguish persons from ordinary animals? Since "human-ness" is provably not one of the relevant characteristics, and since the particular species-ness of any other species is not one of the relevant characteristics (remember, we expect some robots to someday qualify as persons, and they have no species), It Logically Follows that personhood depends on other factors than basic biology.

be any less inhumane than aborting our own children?
NOT CHILDREN. As explained here, unborn humans are so very different from ordinary children that unborn humans should never be confused with children. NEXT, while ordinary abortions are done in a manner that sometimes qualifies as "inhumane", it is possible to do abortions in a manner that never qualifies as "inhumane". The very first step is simply to cut the umbilical cord inside the womb (it has no nerves so cutting it is totally painless). Lack of oxygen will cause the unborn brain to shut down in rather less than a minute. And in less than 10 minutes death will occur, also from lack of oxygen --but the brain will feel nothing, because it is shut down. After death, of course, what happens to the body is irrelevant with respect to the word "humane".

To me, the potential for life, no matter how insignificant, must be respected.
AN IGNORANT STUPIDITY. You cannot survive without killing, constantly, via your body's immune system, and regularly, via the food you eat. ALSO, an unborn human totally qualifies as a living thing, just like a mosquito qualifies as a living thing. There is no "potential for life" involved.

And before you tear into me about what I said in respect to contraception in my other reply, once again, that is not killing a child,
ONCE AGAIN ABORTION IS DIFFERENT FROM KILLING AN ORDINARY CHILD. Because no unborn human properly qualifies for that label! Don't let thousands of years of ignorance (before modern DNA tests provided new and very relevant knowledge) get in the way of Objectively Verifiable Fact.

but instead, preventing it from even beginning to form.
NOT ALL BIRTH CONTROL WORKS LIKE THAT. An IUD, for example, and the morning-after pill, prevent womb-implantation of an already-living unborn human entity. And there is nothing wrong with that --remember that 50% of them Naturally fail to womb-implant, anyway.

Unfortunately, you say that about unborn [mindless human animals that act worse than parasites]
I SAY NO SUCH THING. While I'm aware that some pro-choicers don't consider unborn humans to be alive, I'm not one of them. They are 100% alive and 100% human. But neither of those two Facts matter. That's the point abortion opponents can't seem to wrap their minds around, usually because of Stupid Prejudice.
 
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Re: pro-life

1.) I told you how to achieve what we are looking for.
2.) yes obviously you do if you dont know the definition of abortion and murder. If your knowledge is that weak on the topic and you deny facts so obvious i cant help you. Again the issues is yours to work out.

For the longest time, a "fact" of medical science was that if you were diseased, you had bad blood and needed to be bloodletted by leeches or incisions. However, we quickly discovered that that was faulty information. I am asking you to explain, not to tell me that you don't need to explain because it isn't relevant or because it is not factual, how the killing of an unborn child does not constitute murder.
 
Re: pro-life

For the longest time, a "fact" of medical science was that if you were diseased, you had bad blood and needed to be bloodletted by leeches or incisions. However, we quickly discovered that that was faulty information. I am asking you to explain, not to tell me that you don't need to explain because it isn't relevant or because it is not factual, how the killing of an unborn child does not constitute murder.

PETA believes killing animals is murder. Can you explain how it's not?
 
Re: pro-life

SEE THAT WORD "SCIENCE"? Science is very real. And for anything to be properly called "science fiction", it must include something that is scientifically accurate. More below.


HAW! HAW!! HAW!!! It is Objective Fact that the words "person" and "human" represent different and unrelated concepts. Even in things not called science fiction, that Fact has been getting taught to children for generations now. Here's an example from 1951 --if, in that fiction, the non-human was not a legal person, the portrayed legal decision should have been very different.


DEPENDS ON THE SPECIES. When do its members normally acquire the characteristics that generically can be used to distinguish persons from ordinary animals? Since "human-ness" is provably not one of the relevant characteristics, and since the particular species-ness of any other species is not one of the relevant characteristics (remember, we expect some robots to someday qualify as persons, and they have no species), It Logically Follows that personhood depends on other factors than basic biology.


NOT CHILDREN. As explained here, unborn humans are so very different from ordinary children that unborn humans should never be confused with children. NEXT, while ordinary abortions are done in a manner that sometimes qualifies as "inhumane", it is possible to do abortions in a manner that never qualifies as "inhumane". The very first step is simply to cut the umbilical cord inside the womb (it has no nerves so cutting it is totally painless). Lack of oxygen will cause the unborn brain to shut down in rather less than a minute. And in less than 10 minutes death will occur, also from lack of oxygen --but the brain will feel nothing, because it is shut down. After death, of course, what happens to the body is irrelevant with respect to the word "humane".


AN IGNORANT STUPIDITY. You cannot survive without killing, constantly, via your body's immune system, and regularly, via the food you eat. ALSO, an unborn human totally qualifies as a living thing, just like a mosquito qualifies as a living thing. There is no "potential for life" involved.


ONCE AGAIN ABORTION IS DIFFERENT FROM KILLING AN ORDINARY CHILD. Because no unborn human properly qualifies for that label! Don't let thousands of years of ignorance (before modern DNA tests provided new and very relevant knowledge) get in the way of Objectively Verifiable Fact.


NOT ALL BIRTH CONTROL WORKS LIKE THAT. An IUD, for example, and the morning-after pill, prevent womb-implantation of an already-living unborn human entity. And there is nothing wrong with that --remember that 50% of them Naturally fail to womb-implant, anyway.


I SAY NO SUCH THING. While I'm aware that some pro-choicers don't consider unborn humans to be alive, I'm not one of them. They are 100% alive and 100% human. But neither of those two Facts matter. That's the point abortion opponents can't seem to wrap their minds around, usually because of Stupid Prejudice.

fiction: ˈfikSH(ə)n, noun: literature in the form of prose, especially short stories and novels, that describes imaginary events and people.

Is a fetus an animal, then? Less than an animal? What is a baby in the womb to you?
 
Re: pro-life

IDK what the posts in front of this one are about, but Imma try to get back on the topic of this thread. Abortion is an abomination and a stain upon our society today. If the founders of our nation were to see the ludicrous idea that human life can be purged before birth, they would have been appalled and ashamed of their descendants.

Abortion is murder of an unborn human being, no matter what the government has decided.

Oh for crapsake! Abortion has been around since the dawn of time and our founders didn't address it in the Constitution so they weren't too concerned.

UNTIL the last third of the nineteenth century, when it was criminalized state by state across the land, abortion was legal before "quickening" (approximately the fourth month of pregnancy). Colonial home medical guides gave recipes for "bringing on the menses" with herbs that could be grown in one's garden or easily found in the woods. By the mid eighteenth century commercial preparations were so widely available that they had inspired their own euphemism ("taking the trade"). Unfortunately, these drugs were often fatal. The first statutes regulating abortion, passed in the 1820s and 1830s, were actually poison-control laws: the sale of commercial abortifacients was banned, but abortion per se was not. The laws made little difference. By the 1840s the abortion business -- including the sale of illegal drugs, which were widely advertised in the popular press -- was booming. The most famous practitioner, Madame Restell, openly provided abortion services for thirty-five years, with offices in New York, Boston, and Philadelphia and traveling salespeople touting her "Female Monthly Pills."

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/05/abortion-in-american-history/376851/

You really need to read that article and educate yourself.
 
Re: pro-life

For the longest time, a "fact" of medical science was that if you were diseased, you had bad blood and needed to be bloodletted by leeches or incisions. However, we quickly discovered that that was faulty information. I am asking you to explain, not to tell me that you don't need to explain because it isn't relevant or because it is not factual, how the killing of an unborn child does not constitute murder.

Murder only occurs when the killing is "unjustified."

Abortion is justifiable based on the value of the mother's wishes superseding the lesser value of the fetus's right to life.

So, it's impossible for abortion, by definition, to be murder.
 
Re: pro-life

1.)For the longest time, a "fact" of medical science was that if you were diseased, you had bad blood and needed to be bloodletted by leeches or incisions. However, we quickly discovered that that was faulty information.
2.) I am asking you to explain, not to tell me that you don't need to explain because it isn't relevant or because it is not factual, how the killing of an unborn child does not constitute murder.

1.) actually thats not faulty information, leeches are still used in some cases for something in some places. What ACTUALLY happened is better technology and techniques developed. No offense but you are young and foreign arent you?
2.) because the definition of abortion and the definition or murder make that fact so. Maybe the issue is you dont know what either of those terms are, if thats the case then you should learn what they mean. Also YOU made the false claim so it would be on YOU to prove your case. You get all these things right? You understand words have definitions and you cant just make things up and you understand YOU made your false statement so its on YOU to support it right.

You stated abortion is murder.
I pointed out the fact that by definition abortion =/= murder.

my claim is already factually supported by facts and definitions.

If you would like that reality to change, you have to;)

a.) defend your original false statement with something of logical, honest and intellectual merit
b.) explain why the defense magically trumps facts and definitions of words

when you can do so please let us know, thanks
 
Re: pro-life

Oh for crapsake! Abortion has been around since the dawn of time and our founders didn't address it in the Constitution so they weren't too concerned.



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/05/abortion-in-american-history/376851/

You really need to read that article and educate yourself.

"Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

Your tagline. Interesting. I wonder who is who in this situation.
 
Re: pro-life

Murder only occurs when the killing is "unjustified."

Abortion is justifiable based on the value of the mother's wishes superseding the lesser value of the fetus's right to life.

So, it's impossible for abortion, by definition, to be murder.

The mother got pregnant of her own accord. Why then is it her right to infringe on the child's right to life because it meets her own convenience?

What makes the fetus not a child? Because it seems that that is what makes you think killing it is fine.
 
Re: pro-life

Because animals have no soul, personality, free will, or abstract reasoning that makes us human.

They clearly have personality, free will and abstract reasoning. None of us have a soul.
 
Re: pro-life

1.) actually thats not faulty information, leeches are still used in some cases for something in some places. What ACTUALLY happened is better technology and techniques developed. No offense but you are young and foreign arent you?
2.) because the definition of abortion and the definition or murder make that fact so. Maybe the issue is you dont know what either of those terms are, if thats the case then you should learn what they mean. Also YOU made the false claim so it would be on YOU to prove your case. You get all these things right? You understand words have definitions and you cant just make things up and you understand YOU made your false statement so its on YOU to support it right.

You stated abortion is murder.
I pointed out the fact that by definition abortion =/= murder.

my claim is already factually supported by facts and definitions.

If you would like that reality to change, you have to;)

a.) defend your original false statement with something of logical, honest and intellectual merit
b.) explain why the defense magically trumps facts and definitions of words

when you can do so please let us know, thanks

First, yes, I am young, but I do not let people look down on me because of my age. If I can do something to promote change, it doesn't matter how old I am.

Second, no, I am not foreign.

Third, you have still yet to answer my question, and

Fourth, what is a fetus to you. Because until you tell me what you believe, I can't debate you. I've been trying to for the past day
 
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