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Pro-Choice...give me a break

yummy_zoe7

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Some things I just don't understand....

I honestly think pro-choice really doesn't make much sense. You’re basically saying I should have a choice to kill the baby that is growing inside of my stomach...and that is my right!. I am 8 months pregnant and I think it is a shame that woman are honestly getting this procedure done. I could never imagine having my baby vacuumed out of my uterus and just throwing her away like yesterdays trash. I understand certain situations cause for an abortion....don't get me wrong. But when woman are using "abortion" as a birth control method I think they're pretty sick in the head. My baby moves all the time and you can see her heartbeat jump just by observing my stomach. For people to say that the growing fetus does not feel pain until a certain month is ridiculous. It doesn't make since for people like Scott Peterson to get charged with the murder of his unborn baby....when you have mothers throughout the world doing the same thing.....murdering their baby's. Point blank you can look at it however you want but abortion is Murder because you are ending a life. Like I said I am not some narrow minded person that doesn't think abortion is necessary in certain life or death situations...but having my first child in 11 more weeks really opened up my eyes to the topic. "Pro-choice" is nothing but non-sense so woman can say....."I choose to kill my baby...and that is my right!"

Give me a break.......
 

GarzaUK

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If abortion was illegal would it stop it completely, absolutely not. The result would be back alley abortion performed with a instruments like a coathanger that could kill both girl and baby.

congradulations on your pregnancy!:mrgreen:
 

Kelzie

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yummy_zoe7 said:
Some things I just don't understand....

I honestly think pro-choice really doesn't make much sense. You’re basically saying I should have a choice to kill the baby that is growing inside of my stomach...and that is my right!. I am 8 months pregnant and I think it is a shame that woman are honestly getting this procedure done. I could never imagine having my baby vacuumed out of my uterus and just throwing her away like yesterdays trash. I understand certain situations cause for an abortion....don't get me wrong. But when woman are using "abortion" as a birth control method I think they're pretty sick in the head. My baby moves all the time and you can see her heartbeat jump just by observing my stomach. For people to say that the growing fetus does not feel pain until a certain month is ridiculous. It doesn't make since for people like Scott Peterson to get charged with the murder of his unborn baby....when you have mothers throughout the world doing the same thing.....murdering their baby's. Point blank you can look at it however you want but abortion is Murder because you are ending a life. Like I said I am not some narrow minded person that doesn't think abortion is necessary in certain life or death situations...but having my first child in 11 more weeks really opened up my eyes to the topic. "Pro-choice" is nothing but non-sense so woman can say....."I choose to kill my baby...and that is my right!"

Give me a break.......
I highlighted the most important part. That is what pro-choice is about. I wouldn't choose that and obviously you wouldn't either. But who are you to tell another woman what she should choose to do with her own body?
 

yummy_zoe7

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I don't have the right to tell women what to do with their bodies....but I do have an opinion on the issue. No matter how you look at it they are committing murder by ending a life. Let’s say I gave birth but realized I didn't want the baby, so I somehow caused bodily harm that caused the infant to die. That is exactly what woman is doing as we speak. They have sex and create a life and decide they don't want it. So they get a procedure that causes bodily harm to the fetus resulting in its death. I am not saying that abortions are going to be banned anytime soon because in reality......there not. It just hurts my heart to think that every other minute another baby is dying in this cruel manner.
 

Iriemon

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Many don't think a "." is a "baby."

It is more cruel to create a baby when it is not wanted.
 

ngdawg

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Let’s say I gave birth but realized I didn't want the baby, so I somehow caused bodily harm that caused the infant to die.
Yes, because it is a separate, self-sustaining entity and recognized as such by law and is so from about the 20th week, when viability is possible, hence late term abortions are NOT legal in this country. Now go the other way and try denying that it's NOT a part of you as it's growing, that it is NOT attached to your uterus feeding off you. Anti-choice groups use that argument.
Pro-choice is just that-women have the right to choose what can happen to and within their own bodies. That does NOT mean every pro-choicer chooses abortion.
 

-Demosthenes-

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What is the difference between a premature delivered baby that can live on it's own, and a unborn baby of the same age (since conception)?
 

yummy_zoe7

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Plus.... people can get a 2nd trimester abortion 13 - 21 weeks. Wow and a 21 week old baby can not feel anything......good grief lets get real!!! So your telling me that a 5 month fetus doesn't feel his or her limps getting ripped off by a vacuum?.... give me a break!


Let’s be realistic please
 

Calm2Chaos

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yummy_zoe7 said:
I don't have the right to tell women what to do with their bodies....but I do have an opinion on the issue. No matter how you look at it they are committing murder by ending a life. Let’s say I gave birth but realized I didn't want the baby, so I somehow caused bodily harm that caused the infant to die. That is exactly what woman is doing as we speak. They have sex and create a life and decide they don't want it. So they get a procedure that causes bodily harm to the fetus resulting in its death. I am not saying that abortions are going to be banned anytime soon because in reality......there not. It just hurts my heart to think that every other minute another baby is dying in this cruel manner.
That statement is utterly untrue and completely false.

Websters defines Murder as
"the intentional and unlawful taking of another person's life"

The argument is when does life begin. You obviously believe it begins at conception but not everybody does. And since this is definetly up to personal belief. You can not make a serious blanket statement as you did stating
No matter how you look at it they are committing murder by ending a life.
The scenario you described is completely opposite of the statement you made. Everyone recognizes that upon birth the baby is a viable being and is then protected by all laws.

Your definition of the begingin of life is not everyones and is not necessarily correct
 

Iriemon

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-Demosthenes- said:
What is the difference between a premature delivered baby that can live on it's own, and a unborn baby of the same age (since conception)?
You mean live on its own in a Petri dish?
 

steen

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yummy_zoe7 said:
Plus.... people can get a 2nd trimester abortion 13 - 21 weeks. Wow and a 21 week old baby can not feel anything......
That is a fcat, yes.
good grief lets get real!!!
Whenever you are ready, dear. That you WANT to believe something contrary to facts and evidence, that certainly is your choice (See, there is that thing again, that stuff about having the right to choose), but when you try to misrepresent your belief as a fact, then you are dishonest.
So your telling me that a 5 month fetus doesn't feel his or her limps getting ripped off by a vacuum?....
That would be true, yes.
give me a break!
certainly. The moment you stop spewing falsehoods, I will.
Let’s be realistic please
Wow, like, you know, sort of, like dealign with FACTS? Well, the fact is that your claims are false. So yes by all means lets be realistic.:2razz:
 

-Demosthenes-

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What is the difference between a premature delivered baby that can live on it's own, and a unborn baby of the same age (since conception)?
You mean live on its own in a Petri dish?
No, I meant to ask the difference between a baby born in the third trimester (but early), that has the normal structures and behavior of any other newborn, and an unborn baby of the same age (since conception).
 

goligoth

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The fetus isn't a baby just like a baby isn't an adult. But I do believe that the fetus is human even at the most primal level, it is human. It's just on a different stage of development.

I dislike debating on these posts because the pro-abortion side of the issue just runs around in circles saying "it's not a kid, it's not a kid, falsehood, falsehood, it's the mother's body" whereas the anti-abortion side runs in circles going the opposite direction never doing any actual debating just stating their beliefs and presenting them as fact. As you might see I am on the anti-abortion side of this issue and I am therefore unable to prove that the fetus feels pain or that it is alive but I will not present my opinion as fact and I will stay firmly anti-abortion.

If anyone on the pro-abortion side wishes to sway me I am all ears.
 

steen

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-Demosthenes- said:
No, I meant to ask the difference between a baby born in the third trimester (but early), that has the normal structures and behavior of any other newborn,
Actually preemies from the start of the 3rd trimester are NOT like other newborn, so right there your argument fails.
and an unborn baby of the same age (since conception).
For one, there is no baby until birth, so your argument doesn't make sense. Secondly, it doesn't matter, as the REAL issue is whether the woman is allowed to control her own body or not; that is so regardless of the "recipient." The status of the fetus is completely irrelevant, it can be a person 5 times over and still it doesn't have the right to her bodily resources against her will.
 

steen

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goligoth said:
The fetus isn't a baby just like a baby isn't an adult. But I do believe that the fetus is human even at the most primal level, it is human. It's just on a different stage of development.
Sure. It is of the species "human. Pro-choice have never denied this, so I am not sure why PL makes a deal out of that?
I dislike debating on these posts because the pro-abortion side of the issue
Who are pro-abortion? I don't really recall anybody ever advocating abortion as the preferred option, so your claim seems odd and certainly completely irrelevant.
If anyone on the pro-abortion side wishes to sway me I am all ears.
I don't think there are any here. there are prochoices, but to my knowledge, there are no pro-abortion people here?
 

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Can you give me a suitable alternative to abortoin which does not require killing the fetus? Because if so then I will call you pro-choice but until that time you are pro-abortion.
 

ngdawg

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Simple.
Don't have sex.
End of argument.
 

goligoth

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Thank you for that simplistic response but let us say, metaphorically speaking, of course, that someone did have sex without the purpose of concieving a child( now this is only metaphorically speaking I'm not saying that it really happens) and then the woman, in question, gets pregnant. What are you going to do? Are you going to flush the womb like you flush your toilet :toilet: or are you going to take reponsibility for your actons?
 

steen

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goligoth said:
Can you give me a suitable alternative to abortoin which does not require killing the fetus? Because if so then I will call you pro-choice but until that time you are pro-abortion.
What nonsense. I am for the woman having full choice about her own body and bodily resources, that's all.

That's pro-choice, not pro-abortion, your misrepresentation none withstanding.
 

steen

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goligoth said:
Thank you for that simplistic response but let us say, metaphorically speaking, of course, that someone did have sex without the purpose of concieving a child( now this is only metaphorically speaking I'm not saying that it really happens)
LOL, it happens all the time. Hence this invention called "contraception."
and then the woman, in question, gets pregnant. What are you going to do?
not a thing. It is up to her.
Are you going to flush the womb like you flush your toilet or are you going to take reponsibility for your actons?
What a silly and dishonest dichotemy. Being reponsible is to deal with your own life and not leave decisions to others. Thus having an abortion or deciding to acrry to term are both very responsible options.
 

goligoth

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I don't know how to use the quote thing correctly so I won't use it.

Do you completely deny the existence of the fetus?And the woman having the ability to use or not use her resources at her dicresion are important but can you get rid of the "entity" inside of her without harming it? Obviously you can't because you didn't answer my question the first time I asked. If you don't care what other people do with their lives and the lives around them( giving them the choice to do whatever the #@%$ they want) then you are accepting it as right. As an example and simply as an example: I assume you opposed Hitler. You probably opposed him because of his methodical killing of Jews and anyone who opposed him. I am not referencing this as to the killing so much as the not accepting it as right. You didn't agree with his extermination of a people and so you opposed him you didn't just sit by and say "well I am all for his ability to choose, I mean they are his resources". And while Hitler is a separate and more complicated topic the underlying message that I referenced it for exist so don't dance around my posts by twisting the minor imperfections of my posts to throw focus from the topic.

And as to the post of yours that soon followed: when I posted that was entirely and completely sarcastic. I was making fun of him for avoiding the question. The second thing you quoted in the same post you said it was up to her and I'm sorry I should have been more specific. In that particulair scenario I assumed that you were either the man and/or the woman involved and again not saying so was my fault. And as to the third thing that you quoted: The woman is obviously having an abortion for some reason whether it be financial, inconvience, lazziness, or whatever; the abortion is only as responsible as making sure that you get to the doctor in time to have your kidney removed. Having a kid is much more responsibility and it is her responsibility to take care of the kid or at least not burden it with such a crapy mother by giving it to an orphanage, killing it should never be an option. Therefore if abortion was outlawed and she was forced to have the kid she is not leaving the deciscion to others (it's not even an option).

I will restate my belief that I don't think that a potential human should be denied the right to life simply because the woman doesn't like sharing her breakfast with it.

I'm sorry that I couldn't quote you correctly when I should have in the middle of my post but I thought it would be distracting from the main topic to read something that you wrote and I would probably do it wrong anyway.
 

ngdawg

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Perhaps you should go back and read again-no one ignored your posts, in fact, they were answered quite succinctly.
You stated you don't like debating these type of topics-here's an idea....don't.
Oh, and by the way, not one person here said they're pro-abortion. It gets a tad tiresome and annoying to have to correct all the time. Don't put words or ideas in other's posts that weren't there to begin with.
 

tryreading

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goligoth said:
Therefore if abortion was outlawed and she was forced to have the kid she is not leaving the deciscion to others (it's not even an option).

I will restate my belief that I don't think that a potential human should be denied the right to life simply because the woman doesn't like sharing her breakfast with it.

Is it okay with you, if abortion were outlawed, that a woman be forced to carry a child to birth even if it is against her will? And if she doesn't choose to, she would need to be restrained for up to 9 months. Is that an option? And, if abortion were illegal, what would be the punishment appropriate for the offending woman, who had just aborted her fetus? These are serious questions.
 

Kelzie

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goligoth said:
I don't know how to use the quote thing correctly so I won't use it.

Do you completely deny the existence of the fetus?And the woman having the ability to use or not use her resources at her dicresion are important but can you get rid of the "entity" inside of her without harming it? Obviously you can't because you didn't answer my question the first time I asked. If you don't care what other people do with their lives and the lives around them( giving them the choice to do whatever the #@%$ they want) then you are accepting it as right. As an example and simply as an example: I assume you opposed Hitler. You probably opposed him because of his methodical killing of Jews and anyone who opposed him. I am not referencing this as to the killing so much as the not accepting it as right. You didn't agree with his extermination of a people and so you opposed him you didn't just sit by and say "well I am all for his ability to choose, I mean they are his resources". And while Hitler is a separate and more complicated topic the underlying message that I referenced it for exist so don't dance around my posts by twisting the minor imperfections of my posts to throw focus from the topic.

And as to the post of yours that soon followed: when I posted that was entirely and completely sarcastic. I was making fun of him for avoiding the question. The second thing you quoted in the same post you said it was up to her and I'm sorry I should have been more specific. In that particulair scenario I assumed that you were either the man and/or the woman involved and again not saying so was my fault. And as to the third thing that you quoted: The woman is obviously having an abortion for some reason whether it be financial, inconvience, lazziness, or whatever; the abortion is only as responsible as making sure that you get to the doctor in time to have your kidney removed. Having a kid is much more responsibility and it is her responsibility to take care of the kid or at least not burden it with such a crapy mother by giving it to an orphanage, killing it should never be an option. Therefore if abortion was outlawed and she was forced to have the kid she is not leaving the deciscion to others (it's not even an option).

I will restate my belief that I don't think that a potential human should be denied the right to life simply because the woman doesn't like sharing her breakfast with it.

I'm sorry that I couldn't quote you correctly when I should have in the middle of my post but I thought it would be distracting from the main topic to read something that you wrote and I would probably do it wrong anyway.
As to your problem with quotes:

On the bottom right of a person's post is a button that says "quote". Clicking on it will automatically bring you to the Reply to Thread page with their post in quotes. Alternatively, you could copy and paste their post to your reply, highlight it, and hit the button that looks like a cartoon-word-bubble thingy with lines it it. That will wrap quote tags around the selected text. As a last result, you can type [-QUOTE]....[/-QUOTE] before and after the quoted text (just remove the two - ). It really is a lot easier to tell what you're replying to if you use quotes.
 
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