Private industry is not always the superior solution.

[Ringo Stalin]

Nowhere Else To Go: Grandmother, Millions Of Others Face Eviction

Latest U.S. coronavirus news: Moderna vaccine approved; negotiations continue on stimulus deal; NY cases spike.

patch.com

 

[Ringo Stalin]

Global agriculture is able to feed at least twice the world's population (UN data).
Capitalism stands on the way.

Yemeni boy, ravaged by hunger, weighs 7 kg

Paralysed and severely malnourished, seven-year-old Faid Samim lies curled up on a hospital bed in the Yemeni capital Sanaa, having barely survived the journey there.

www.reuters.com

 

[Mircea]

Many other nations...

When the US becomes a nation, then perhaps it might do that.

When you get to high school you'll learn the difference between a clan, a tribe, a supra-tribe, a nation, a nation-State and a country.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

In the world, about 30% of food is thrown away. At the same time, from hunger per day (!!!) approximately 25,000 people die. Capitalism is a very efficient system. On killing people especially.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

Joke of the day

"What is the biggest challenge today? The Davos agenda.
- Pandemic
- Climate change
- Technologies
- Racial inequality

Sponsored by Bank of America"
***
The systemic crisis of capitalism is not considered in principle
Not with this sponsor

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Private industry is not always the superior solution:

There are people that believe “government’s the problem rather than solution. I heard Milton Friedman state that half of what our federal government’s spending is wasted. A great proportion of all other than federal spending, (including commercial and personal spending) is also “wasted”.

We, as individuals generally believe that governments’ spending for what we approve of, to the extent that’s spent in manners that we approve of, is justifiable; all other governments’ spending is less than justifiable. That’s politics. There are extremely few items of governments expense that are not controversial. Governments’ lines of expenses are criticized or subject to objections by some aggregate individuals or groups. Political disagreement occurs more so in democracies but also occurs within nations of only one political party or of extremely few leaders.

Outsourcing some specific government functions would be contrary to the public’s interest. There are some government functions that can be outsourced, but government rather than private industry provides them in a superior manner. Many other nations provide their population Wi-Fi, medical insurance, railroads and other public transportation at lesser expense and in a manner superior to that of the United States. It’s nonsense to contend that private industry does or will perform every function in a manner superior to government.

Respectfully, Supposn

Two things which react very poorly to distortions wrought by profit motive:
Corrections and television news.

Privately owned corrections by its very nature carries a baked in conflict of interest because real actual corrections and rehabilitation destroys the very commodity they profit off of.
A for profit news industry automatically seeks to enhance whatever serves the confirmation bias of the target viewer demographic because it is human nature to prefer to be told what one WANTS to hear as opposed to being told what one NEEDS to hear.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

They do not choose to be so poor that they can't afford healthy food. Health food is not cheap and plentiful nor easily accessible.

You're fighting against a mindset informed by dominionist based prosperity gospel, which teaches the following:

1. There are two types of people in the world, the wicked and the righteous.
2. The poor are wicked, which is the only reason that they are poor.
3. There is a Great Transfer of Wealth from the Wicked to the Righteous.
4. God showers his favor upon the Righteous by imbuing them with wealth, thus it is right for the poor to suffer.
5. It is also right, just and godly to inflict maximum suffering on the poor, to teach them that they are wicked.
   
   
   
   
   

 

[devildavid]

You're fighting against a mindset informed by dominionist based prosperity gospel, which teaches the following:

1. There are two types of people in the world, the wicked and the righteous.
2. The poor are wicked, which is the only reason that they are poor.
3. There is a Great Transfer of Wealth from the Wicked to the Righteous.
4. God showers his favor upon the Righteous by imbuing them with wealth, thus it is right for the poor to suffer.
5. It is also right, just and godly to inflict maximum suffering on the poor, to teach them that they are wicked.

I am fighting a mindset that doesn't understand logical connections and that we don't end up in circumstances because we chose them. It is a crazy form of libertarianism which only exists on the internet and is used to "win" every debate and has no bearing on reality. It is an a argument which asserts that personal choice controls every aspect of life and completely controls how every life turns out. It is nuts.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am fighting a mindset that doesn't understand logical connections and that we don't end up in circumstances because we chose them. It is a crazy form of libertarianism which only exists on the internet and is used to "win" every debate and has no bearing on reality. It is an a argument which asserts that personal choice controls every aspect of life and completely controls how every life turns out. It is nuts.

Not an either or...
You're actually fighting BOTH.
And that's because the two often go hand in hand.
Nothing informs an Ayn Rand RW anarcho-libertarian mindset as perfectly as prosperity gospel because, taken together, it's like God is actually giving them his blessing on acting like darwinian assholes who want to see the world subjected to a kind of classist form of "ethnic cleansing".
Every apocalyptic end times fundamentalist cult on the planet is informed by this and so is every fanatical doomsday conspiracy theory cult.

 

[Montgomery]

Nowhere Else To Go: Grandmother, Millions Of Others Face Eviction

Latest U.S. coronavirus news: Moderna vaccine approved; negotiations continue on stimulus deal; NY cases spike.

patch.com

It's a good attempt to start a decent discussion. I've tried to take it to a more all encompassing level with my new thread on Capitalism.
Fwiw, you've hit on the fact that America's form of greedy capitalism isn't working. It lacks the necessities of true capitalism.

See there.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

greedy capitalism isn't working. It lacks the necessities of true capitalism.

I've always wondered what "proper capitalism" is. United States in the 1950s?
This was a unique situation - all the competitors were either in ruins and occupied, or severely weakened in the war, almost all of the world's gold had moved to the United States. It won't happen again.
The capitalism of the 19th century, when state intervention in the capitalist economy was minimal and what about conservatives and libertarians dream of?
Slavery, the most brutal exploitation of workers in the mother countries, robbery and mass genocide in the colonies... I do not think that this "proper" capitalism can be called ideal.
Modern capitalism is imperialism, financial capitalism, global capitalism is time of the decay of capitalism and turn it into a "proper" one, is impossible, as turn stuffing back into the meat.
Decaying capitalism is deadly, since the financial bourgeoisie directly governs through its puppets, no matter how independent they may look. The only goal of the capitalists is profit. Profit at any cost. In the struggle for profit, contradictions arise, leading to wars, which in the atomic age is deadly for the whole world...

 

[Montgomery]

I've always wondered what "proper capitalism" is. United States in the 1950s?
This was a unique situation - all the competitors were either in ruins and occupied, or severely weakened in the war, almost all of the world's gold had moved to the United States. It won't happen again.
The capitalism of the 19th century, when state intervention in the capitalist economy was minimal and what about conservatives and libertarians dream of?
Slavery, the most brutal exploitation of workers in the mother countries, robbery and mass genocide in the colonies... I do not think that this "proper" capitalism can be called ideal.
Modern capitalism is imperialism, financial capitalism, global capitalism is time of the decay of capitalism and turn it into a "proper" one, is impossible, as turn stuffing back into the meat.
Decaying capitalism is deadly, since the financial bourgeoisie directly governs through its puppets, no matter how independent they may look. The only goal of the capitalists is profit. Profit at any cost. In the struggle for profit, contradictions arise, leading to wars, which in the atomic age is deadly for the whole world...

I think you've got it figured out pretty thoroughly.
But capitalism 'can' work and is still the preferable system if it's finely tuned to eliminate some of it's flaws. And so completely unfettered capitalism is everything you accuse it of being.

What I've tried to introduce here on this board is a new and different twist to capitalism which China has adopted. It's capitalism within a system in which the governing body is intent on social reform for the good of all the people. And so the question just becomes, is China's governing body strong and sincere enough to follow through indefinitely. If so then they have stumbled upon the ideal application of capitalism under a socialist system.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

If a monkey accumulates more bananas than it can eat, while most other monkeys are starving, scientists will study this monkey and conduct experiments on it to find out what is wrong with it.
When people do the same, for some reason they are put on the cover of "Forbes"...

 

[I'm Supposn]

If a monkey accumulates more bananas than it can eat, while most other monkeys are starving, scientists will study this monkey and conduct experiments on it to find out what is wrong with it.
When people do the same, for some reason they are put on the cover of "Forbes"...

Ringo Stalin, no; If a monkey accumulates more bananas than it can eat and shares them with his or her opposite sex mate while most other monkeys are starving, scientists would expect that species of monkeys to survive while all other of those monkey families would die out. Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Ringo Stalin]

This stinking capitalism cannot cope with the simplest task - to distribute employment evenly. Some work for 12 hours, and the second languish from idleness. For example, the USSR built the Shakhty textile factory (the largest in Europe) for one purpose: to employ the wives of miners.

 

[Mircea]

Ringo Stalin, no; If a monkey accumulates more bananas than it can eat and shares them with his or her opposite sex mate while most other monkeys are starving, scientists would expect that species of monkeys to survive while all other of those monkey families would die out. Respectfully, Supposn

That's what happens when you believe your own lies.

Yes, Bill Gates does have $95 Billion in wealth, which is not the same thing as $95 Billion in cash.

When you grow up, perhaps you'll understand the difference between wealth and cash.

In the meantime, you can donate a pair of scissors, a hammer, a spoon, and an Exacto-knife to Bill Gates.

Gates can promptly use the scissors to cut up his stock certificates in 1 mm x 1 mm squares and distribute them to The Poor® who won't be able to do anything with them, since they're no longer redeemable.

He can use the hammer to smash up the $22.6 Million Ming Dynasty vase he has and give the porcelain shards to The Poor® who will throw them on the ground, since the vase no longer has an value.

He can use the spoon to provide a spoonful of dirt from his real estate to The Poor®, but that assumes the The Poor® would be willing to bring their own Glad® brand plastic baggies or some other container and perhaps The Poor® can trade the baggie with a spoonful of dirt for a Big Mac®.

Finally, he can use the Exacto-knife to cut up and destroy a $1.7 Million Monet painting and give the little 1 mm x 1 mm pieces to The Poor® who won't be able to do anything with it.

Bill Gates will no longer have any wealth the The Poor® will still be poor but at least you'll feel better about yourself.

 

[Ringo Stalin]

 

[Ringo Stalin]

A few words about American freedom:
"A nation that oppresses other nations cannot be free. The power he needs to suppress another people always turns against him in the end"
Friedrich Engels

 

[iguanaman]

That's what happens when you believe your own lies.

Yes, Bill Gates does have $95 Billion in wealth, which is not the same thing as $95 Billion in cash.

When you grow up, perhaps you'll understand the difference between wealth and cash.

In the meantime, you can donate a pair of scissors, a hammer, a spoon, and an Exacto-knife to Bill Gates.

Gates can promptly use the scissors to cut up his stock certificates in 1 mm x 1 mm squares and distribute them to The Poor® who won't be able to do anything with them, since they're no longer redeemable.

He can use the hammer to smash up the $22.6 Million Ming Dynasty vase he has and give the porcelain shards to The Poor® who will throw them on the ground, since the vase no longer has an value.

He can use the spoon to provide a spoonful of dirt from his real estate to The Poor®, but that assumes the The Poor® would be willing to bring their own Glad® brand plastic baggies or some other container and perhaps The Poor® can trade the baggie with a spoonful of dirt for a Big Mac®.

Finally, he can use the Exacto-knife to cut up and destroy a $1.7 Million Monet painting and give the little 1 mm x 1 mm pieces to The Poor® who won't be able to do anything with it.

Bill Gates will no longer have any wealth the The Poor® will still be poor but at least you'll feel better about yourself.

Bill Gates has already pledged to give the bulk of his fortune to charity and has already given away $50 billion. He is a poor example and one who would support a wealthy tax also. Has consistently supported higher taxes on the wealthy too. He is not alone either. The smart billionaires understand that wealth maldistribution is a danger to them also.
These 14 billionaires just promised to give away more than half of their money like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/31/14-...-gates-and-warren-buffetts-giving-pledge.html

 

[Lafayette]

Bill Gates has already pledged to give the bulk of his fortune to charity and has already given away $50 billion.

That is not the point.

No one should be allowed to amass such a fortune. And he did so because Upper-income Taxation was to low. Given the monumental poverty that exists in America millionaire-earnings would be better taxed and spent upon providing Free Post-secondary Education or a National Healthcare for all. I could care less if a millionaire lives comfortably in his/her mansion.

I do care when low-taxation allows them to amass their fortunes with the money that could otherwise have been taxed and spent on key-services for all American-families.

Such as:
*It would assure more employment for those who otherwise will indulge in illegal activity to lead the lifestyle they want. Our jails are popping-at-the-seams! The Services Industries hire mostly talented people with a degree (or post-secondary skills-learning programs.)
*It would assure a higher standard of living as more Americans get the healthcare attention that they need to live longer. Your average life-span in the US is 3 to 4 years less than mine in France (which has a National Healthcare Service). It costs me $15 to see a doctor in France.
*It will help assure that people find jobs in the Services Industries that are the mainstay of the US job-market. Only about 12% work is in Manufacturing. (Which has nearly all gone to cheap-labor China and Southeast Asia. Here in Europe the smaller cars are being manufactured in North Africa.)

I could go on but it's needless to do so ...

 

[iguanaman]

That is not the point.

No one should be allowed to amass such a fortune. And he did so because Upper-income Taxation was to low. Given the monumental poverty that exists in America millionaire-earnings would be better taxed and spent upon providing Free Post-secondary Education or a National Healthcare for all. I could care less if a millionaire lives comfortably in his/her mansion.

I do care when low-taxation allows them to amass their fortunes with the money that could otherwise have been taxed and spent on key-services for all American-families.

Such as:
*It would assure more employment for those who otherwise will indulge in illegal activity to lead the lifestyle they want. Our jails are popping-at-the-seams! The Services Industries hire mostly talented people with a degree (or post-secondary skills-learning programs.)
*It would assure a higher standard of living as more Americans get the healthcare attention that they need to live longer. Your average life-span in the US is 3 to 4 years less than mine in France (which has a National Healthcare Service). It costs me $15 to see a doctor in France.
*It will help assure that people find jobs in the Services Industries that are the mainstay of the US job-market. Only about 12% work is in Manufacturing. (Which has nearly all gone to cheap-labor China and Southeast Asia. Here in Europe the smaller cars are being manufactured in North Africa.)

I could go on but it's needless to do so ...

You won't hear any arguments from me about the income disparity brought on by low taxes on the wealthy. We had it right in the 1960's with our 75% rate on the top bracket and those high rates were instrumental in creating our middle class. That middle class has not gotten a raise since Reagan slashed the top rate in the 1980's and I refuse to think it is just a coincidence.

 

[Lafayette]

I've always wondered what "proper capitalism" is. United States in the 1950s?

The word capitalism is in a sorry state. It is being punished for something it did not do.

Definition of capitalism (Merriam-Webster):

An economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free market

I guess I am a capitalist. I own a car.

No, not really? Dear me, dear me. What's a "real capitalist"?

Anyone who "profits" from a Market Economy because they spend money on products/services? Or someone who "benefits" from a Market Economy by their work and their purchasing of goods&services? What's the difference? There is none!

Someone who benefits from a Market Economy to earn/obtain wealth greatly out of proportion to their need is not a capitalist any more or less than I. Or you.

Because "capitalism" is simply an overworked word for the use of moneyed-instruments upon which an economy is conducted.

So, employing the word "capitalist" as regards an individual is an error. Unless we consume, and enjoy it, so we are ALL capitalists nowadays. Like it or not ...

 

[Ringo Stalin]

Definition of capitalism

Capitalism (Fr. Capital — the main property or sum) — a socio-economic formation based on the private ownership of the bourgeois class of the means of production and the exploitation of wage workers, deprived of the means of production and forced to sell their labor; replaces feudalism and is the last antagonistic socio-economic formation in the history of mankind.

 

[Mircea]

Bill Gates has already pledged to give the bulk of his fortune to charity and has already given away $50 billion.

$50 Billion in assets, not $50 Billion in cash.

Charities, like private and government pension funds, insurance companies, personal retirement plans, and a great many other things are often funded by assets, not cash.

He is a poor example...

Yes, he is.

This is a man who bought Q-DOS for $30,000 then Welshed on the contract because he was supposed consult with the man who invented and coded Q-DOS.

Gates converted Q-DOS to MS-DOS but in doing so created numerous flaws.

That's how computer virus came to be.

Gates screwed it up so bad that MS-DOS couldn't handle writing "0" bytes to a file, so it would truncate the file wherever the file pointer was.

So I write a little 4 to 6 byte program that you accidentally download onto your computer and then whenever you hit a certain key, like the space-bar or the letter "p" or the number "3" or whatever, it would truncate the file wherever the file pointer was (and I could make the file pointer jump around if I wanted).

Then you go to look at a photo on your computer or your thesis/dissertation or whatever and only part of it's there, because the rest of it got truncated and lost (meaning the data was over-written).

Neither Gates nor Microsux invented Windows.

That was the Software Group, that Microsux bought, who invented it. I was using Windows long before most of you people ever heard of it because that's how Enable worked. That was probably the most powerful software program at the time. We used it at TRADOC Headquarters.

You could have 8 "windows" open at a time. I'd open up a word-processing document as the target document, then open another word-processing document I called the "blurb" document because it had all the blurbs for Eyes Only or classifcation level and dissemination stuff, and then open another word-processing document for the text I wanted in the target document, then open a Lotus 1-2-3 style spreadsheet that might have the Tables of Organization & Equipment (we were working on Division '86 at the time) for the new Abrams and Bradley units and the 3x8 format for fires battalions, or maybe units and logistics for invading Iran or whatever and then open a spreadsheet with costing/financial data, then open a dBase-style database with data on whatever I needed then another database window for the telephone numbers and addresses and then the communications window.

It merges everything into the target document to create it and then uses the database to dial all the phone numbers for the Army commands and certain commanders for their review or whatever. You had to put the phone handle in the cradle, because that's how modems worked at the time.

Anyway, I wouldn't trust Gates and a pledge is not exactly binding.

I do note that he intends the money for private entities and not government.

 

[iguanaman]

$50 Billion in assets, not $50 Billion in cash.

Charities, like private and government pension funds, insurance companies, personal retirement plans, and a great many other things are often funded by assets, not cash.



Yes, he is.

This is a man who bought Q-DOS for $30,000 then Welshed on the contract because he was supposed consult with the man who invented and coded Q-DOS.

Gates converted Q-DOS to MS-DOS but in doing so created numerous flaws.

That's how computer virus came to be.

Gates screwed it up so bad that MS-DOS couldn't handle writing "0" bytes to a file, so it would truncate the file wherever the file pointer was.

So I write a little 4 to 6 byte program that you accidentally download onto your computer and then whenever you hit a certain key, like the space-bar or the letter "p" or the number "3" or whatever, it would truncate the file wherever the file pointer was (and I could make the file pointer jump around if I wanted).

Then you go to look at a photo on your computer or your thesis/dissertation or whatever and only part of it's there, because the rest of it got truncated and lost (meaning the data was over-written).

Neither Gates nor Microsux invented Windows.

That was the Software Group, that Microsux bought, who invented it. I was using Windows long before most of you people ever heard of it because that's how Enable worked. That was probably the most powerful software program at the time. We used it at TRADOC Headquarters.

You could have 8 "windows" open at a time. I'd open up a word-processing document as the target document, then open another word-processing document I called the "blurb" document because it had all the blurbs for Eyes Only or classifcation level and dissemination stuff, and then open another word-processing document for the text I wanted in the target document, then open a Lotus 1-2-3 style spreadsheet that might have the Tables of Organization & Equipment (we were working on Division '86 at the time) for the new Abrams and Bradley units and the 3x8 format for fires battalions, or maybe units and logistics for invading Iran or whatever and then open a spreadsheet with costing/financial data, then open a dBase-style database with data on whatever I needed then another database window for the telephone numbers and addresses and then the communications window.

It merges everything into the target document to create it and then uses the database to dial all the phone numbers for the Army commands and certain commanders for their review or whatever. You had to put the phone handle in the cradle, because that's how modems worked at the time.

Anyway, I wouldn't trust Gates and a pledge is not exactly binding.

I do note that he intends the money for private entities and not government.

The "windowing" interface was invented by Zerox and placed in public domain. Apple tried to sue Microsoft for using it and lost. You have a lot of misconceptions, Gates did not invent the computer virus,. He has given away $50 billion in cash to charity and has pledged to give all but $100 million away when he dies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_graphical_user_interface