Price for a Deserter?

[washunut]

By all accounts this guy deserted his unit. People were killed looking for him. The killing of other Americans was made easier by this guy as the Taliban seemed to use this missing person to lay traps for those looking for him.

It seems incredible that a President would make no distinction between someone like this and a brave soldier captured in battle. Not only that, but to trade him for some high level terrorists!

Is the country so divided by us versus them politics that Obama loyalists can find a reason to get behind this action?

 

[Hicup]

By all accounts this guy deserted his unit. People were killed looking for him. The killing of other Americans was made easier by this guy as the Taliban seemed to use this missing person to lay traps for those looking for him.

It seems incredible that a President would make no distinction between someone like this and a brave soldier captured in battle. Not only that, but to trade him for some high level terrorists!

Is the country so divided by us versus them politics that Obama loyalists can find a reason to get behind this action?

No I think if you're a veteran of political message boards, you'll have a tough time finding moderate democrats in support of this idiot in chief. Sure you get your regular hyper-partisan lefties in NOT in support but deflection mode, and sure you have your hyper-partisan righties in salivation mode, but most of us are just what the **** did the President just do and why the hell did he do it, mode.


Tim-

 

[shavingcollywob]

Leave it to Pres. Obama to be on the losing end on the most lop sided trade since Boston sent Babe Ruth to New York.

Most pretty much everyone I know is shaking their heads wondering what Pres. Obama was thinking. Some people were understandably excited over a POW being released regardless of the price but that quickly died down as more and more information came out.

 

[danarhea]

We don't leave our own on the battlefield at the end of a war. We bring them home. However, having said that, this Bozo should be court martialled as soon as he gets back. Sure, we can give him credit for time served as a POW, but his discharge should be dishonorable, and he should not be eligible for any of the benefits that veterans receive after completing service.

 

[soot]

By all accounts this guy deserted his unit. People were killed looking for him. The killing of other Americans was made easier by this guy as the Taliban seemed to use this missing person to lay traps for those looking for him.

That has no bearing on anything.

We don't leave our own on the battlefield.

Full stop.

We don't leave our own on the battlefield at the end of a war. We bring them home. However, having said that, this Bozo should be court martialled as soon as he gets back. Sure, we can give him credit for time served as a POW, but his discharge should be dishonorable, and he should not be eligible for any of the benefits that veterans receive after completing service.

That's pretty much exactly where I stand on it.

 

[washunut]

We don't leave our own on the battlefield at the end of a war. We bring them home. However, having said that, this Bozo should be court martialled as soon as he gets back. Sure, we can give him credit for time served as a POW, but his discharge should be dishonorable, and he should not be eligible for any of the benefits that veterans receive after completing service.

I think it is a B.S. slogan the President is trying to push on his base the " We don't leave our own battlefield" line. That rightfully applies to any captured soldier. It DOES NOT APPLY to deserters who walk to the other side. He was where he wanted to be. We should have let him rot there.

 

[shavingcollywob]

That has no bearing on anything.

We don't leave our own on the battlefield.

Full stop.

Sure but not leaving our own on the battlefield shouldn't mean we make asinine deals to bring them home.

 

[Perotista]

We don't leave our own on the battlefield at the end of a war. We bring them home. However, having said that, this Bozo should be court martialled as soon as he gets back. Sure, we can give him credit for time served as a POW, but his discharge should be dishonorable, and he should not be eligible for any of the benefits that veterans receive after completing service.

I think more or less a common sense approach here. But Bergdahl wasn't captured on the battlefield, if the news account are to be believed he was captured running away or walking away from the battlefield. I am sure part of his debriefing in Germany is to assess and gather facts to either verify this or not. But I think as you, a dishonorable discharge if the charges are proven true should be handed to him ASAP along with being busted to the rank of Private, E-1.

Now there is no question about the Marine being held in Mexico as to whether he was a deserter or not. It is my opinion more effort should be/have been given to get him home than Bergdahl. But that is not the way this administration chose to play it.

 

[Perotista]

That has no bearing on anything.

We don't leave our own on the battlefield.

Full stop.



That's pretty much exactly where I stand on it.

Battlefield, I think perhaps that is the bone of contention here. Bergdahl was not captured on the battlefield if the news reports are to be believed. He was captured running or walking away from the battlefield and according to one account trying to walk to India. If he left his post as reported, he probably deserved to be left to his fate as he made his choice.

But we really do not know, we are all going on different news reports and what some soldiers have said who worked with him. I doubt if we, the public will ever know the full truth. I just wish as much energy, time and effort was put in getting our Marine back from Mexico, there is no doubt what so ever about that soldier serving honorably.

 

[Higgins86]

I imagine the years he spent in a taliban prison gave him plenty of time to reflect on his choices. That being said no one knows what this Sgt's state of mind was when he left his post. He could of been suffering from PTS, dehydration etc. Why not wait to hear all the facts before you try and put this guy back in prison.

 

[Hicup]

We don't leave our own on the battlefield at the end of a war. We bring them home. However, having said that, this Bozo should be court martialled as soon as he gets back. Sure, we can give him credit for time served as a POW, but his discharge should be dishonorable, and he should not be eligible for any of the benefits that veterans receive after completing service.

Add jail time for his little walkabout and I'll be somewhat ok with it. We can kill these released Gitmo Aholes with a drone later, but this deserter needs to get punished, and an apology issued to the families of those that were killed looking for him.


Tim-

 

[soot]

Battlefield, I think perhaps that is the bone of contention here. Bergdahl was not captured on the battlefield if the news reports are to be believed. He was captured running or walking away from the battlefield and according to one account trying to walk to India. If he left his post as reported, he probably deserved to be left to his fate as he made his choice.

If that was the case then the Army should have laid the groundwork for all of that years ago.

They should have filed a DA Form 4187 changing his duty status from Present For Duty (PDY) to Absent Without Leave (AWOL), and another changing his status from AWOL to DFR (Dropped From Rolls).

They should have filed a DD Form 553 to classify him as a deserter.

They should have filed a DA Form 3975 in order to have a USACRC control number assigned to his criminal case.

But his Chain of Command did none of those things.

The man has been carried on Department of the Army rolls as missing/captured since the day he went missing.

So unless or until the Army actually goes through the steps to report the guy as having been DFR and charge him as a deserter under UCMJ they're kind of required to actually follow the rules and treat him as a missing/captured Soldier who has been repatriated.

But we really do not know, we are all going on different news reports and what some soldiers have said who worked with him. I doubt if we, the public will ever know the full truth.

I think that's a fairly safe bet.

I just wish as much energy, time and effort was put in getting our Marine back from Mexico, there is no doubt what so ever about that soldier serving honorably.

Agreed.

He served honorably.

Then he was discharged.

Then he lived dishonorably.

I see no reason why he's owed anything that your average Joe Citizen isn't.

 

[Lutherf]

I just wish as much energy, time and effort was put in getting our Marine back from Mexico, there is no doubt what so ever about that soldier serving honorably.

Are you kidding?

We're releasing hundreds of illegals onto the streets of Tucson as we speak without asking for a doggone thing from Mexico. Then again, Mexico probably doesn't want most of them back anyway.

 

[AJiveMan]

Why the poutrage? Didn't McCain spill his guts while in captivity?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Why the poutrage? Didn't McCain spill his guts while in captivity?

not to the best of my knowledge, he is known to give the NVA outdated/incorrect information...

he also refused parole and early release, and oh by the way, was captured due to being shot down in action.....

 

[JoeTrumps]

everything is just rumor and speculation. The military is going to do a full investigation. If they decide the guy was a deserter, then the Administration must be asked why they didn't research the HELL out of this guy before agreeing to release VERY dangerous men for him. Let's hear all sides and then decide where the majority(or all) of the blame lies. Putting it all on Obama at this point just makes you look like a partisan. let's here the evidence first.

 

[AJiveMan]

not to the best of my knowledge, he is known to give the NVA outdated/incorrect information...

he also refused parole and early release, and oh by the way, was captured due to being shot down in action.....

Wasn't this vet captured too? Or did he just walk into their loving arms? Do we really know the truth, or is this just some babble coming from people who might have disliked him for one or more reasons?

When I was in the military, I knew a few brown shoes, who at the time, I would've said they just deserted, just because he had his nose up the duty sergeant's ass.

 

[Perotista]

If that was the case then the Army should have laid the groundwork for all of that years ago.

They should have filed a DA Form 4187 changing his duty status from Present For Duty (PDY) to Absent Without Leave (AWOL), and another changing his status from AWOL to DFR (Dropped From Rolls).

They should have filed a DD Form 553 to classify him as a deserter.

They should have filed a DA Form 3975 in order to have a USACRC control number assigned to his criminal case.

But his Chain of Command did none of those things.

The man has been carried on Department of the Army rolls as missing/captured since the day he went missing.

So unless or until the Army actually goes through the steps to report the guy as having been DFR and charge him as a deserter under UCMJ they're kind of required to actually follow the rules and treat him as a missing/captured Soldier who has been repatriated.



I think that's a fairly safe bet.



Agreed.

He served honorably.

Then he was discharged.

Then he lived dishonorably.

I see no reason why he's owed anything that your average Joe Citizen isn't.

Panetta when he was secretary of Defense could have made this same deal two years ago but didn't and I assume in turning that deal down then he had the president's backing. I wonder what changed in the intervening two years?

I don't know why the army didn't do the things you mentioned. Perhaps when they learned Bergdahl was captured by the Taliban they didn't do so in order to give him what little protection the Geneva Convention may have provided. I don't know and all I can do is speculate which isn't worth much if anything in achieving anything close to the truth. But one of the news reports did mention this. CNN's I think.

 

[Perotista]

Are you kidding?

We're releasing hundreds of illegals onto the streets of Tucson as we speak without asking for a doggone thing from Mexico. Then again, Mexico probably doesn't want most of them back anyway.

Perhaps we should start sending them back by the train load until they agree to release our Marine.

 

[soot]

Panetta when he was secretary of Defense could have made this same deal two years ago but didn't and I assume in turning that deal down then he had the president's backing. I wonder what changed in the intervening two years?

Me too.

I guess we'll have to wait for someone to write his or her memoirs.

I don't know why the army didn't do the things you mentioned. Perhaps when they learned Bergdahl was captured by the Taliban they didn't do so in order to give him what little protection the Geneva Convention may have provided. I don't know and all I can do is speculate which isn't worth much if anything in achieving anything close to the truth. But one of the news reports did mention this. CNN's I think.

You know, on the one hand, and this is really my first, gut, reaction, is to doubt that we'd do anything administrative (or fail to do anything administrative) in the hopes that our doing so would make the Taliban more inclined to respect the Geneva Convention.

Further, you'd think that if that was the gambit, then they'd take the additional step and actually call him a POW, which neither the Army nor the Administration ever "officially" did (I don't know if maybe Obama didn't unofficially call him a POW in a speech somewhere).

On the other hand, who the **** knows?

I agree that all we can really do is speculate.

 

[Perotista]

Me too.

I guess we'll have to wait for someone to write his or her memoirs.



You know, on the one hand, and this is really my first, gut, reaction, is to doubt that we'd do anything administrative (or fail to do anything administrative) in the hopes that our doing so would make the Taliban more inclined to respect the Geneva Convention.

Further, you'd think that if that was the gambit, then they'd take the additional step and actually call him a POW, which neither the Army nor the Administration ever "officially" did (I don't know if maybe Obama didn't unofficially call him a POW in a speech somewhere).

On the other hand, who the **** knows?

I agree that all we can really do is speculate.

I liked Panetta as Secretary of Defense, he was a good one. There are so many questions surrounding Bergdahl and so little answers, I would assume everyone could agree to that. But you know what they say about assumptions and I probably would be very wrong. I don't think Panetta is a tell all type of guy in a book.

Yeah, really on the speculation.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Wasn't this vet captured too? Or did he just walk into their loving arms? Do we really know the truth, or is this just some babble coming from people who might have disliked him for one or more reasons?

When I was in the military, I knew a few brown shoes, who at the time, I would've said they just deserted, just because he had his nose up the duty sergeant's ass.

I never commented about Bergdahl. I merely corrected statements you made about McCain (whom I'm not a fan of politically btw)

 

[BmanMcfly]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607

Relevant?

 

[AJiveMan]

I never commented about Bergdahl. I merely corrected statements you made about McCain (whom I'm not a fan of politically btw)

Corrected? what's to be corrected about a man that crashed many planes (he couldn't fly worth snot) and when he does get shot down from being a crappy pilot, he spills his guts to the N. Vietnamese.

Traitor Of The Month : John McCain | The Collapse Report

Now, about Bergdahl, some soldiers are saying he walked away, went AWOL, I'm drawing a comparison here between McCain and Bergdahl, do you see where I'm going now? Vietnam vets swore McCain was a lipper or a traitor, just as some soldiers are saying about Bergdahl.

People seem to already have this young man tried and convicted, a general courts martial hasn't even taken place yet. It couldn't at all be possible that these soldiers supposedly blowing the whistle on Bergdahl are doing this as being politically motivated do we? There's more to this story, there's always two sides to every story too.

 

[Linc]

People seem to already have this young man tried and convicted, a general courts martial hasn't even taken place yet. It couldn't at all be possible that these soldiers supposedly blowing the whistle on Bergdahl are doing this as being politically motivated do we? There's more to this story, there's always two sides to every story too.

Members of Bergdahl's unit were hastily put together in front of cameras by Republican operatives today.
We know where this is going .