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Prediction: GOP Will Force US into Default[W:183]

So what is your take on " raising the debt ceiling raises the debt"?

If debt is at X and it needs to be raised, Is not the new debt level greater than X?

(I am not a republ nor a conservative).

I could say its funny when dems think they can keep spending 40% more than they take in and it does not add to the debt.

Pitiful. You been perplexed by labels and not substance. Google debt ceiling and report back in.

But here's a hint, raising the debt ceiling doesn't raise any debt, anymore then paying your light bill does.
 
Why didn't you answer the question specifically?

go on...you can say it :ladwmo

I'd rather watch tea baggers make fools of themselves claiming that the raising the debt ceiling incurs more debt. It's hilarious to watch the invincible ignorance that is modern conservatism.

I mean look at you, you think paying your utility bills increases your debt. BWHAHHAHAHAHHAH! That's how out of touch conservatives are.
 
I'd rather watch tea baggers make fools of themselves claiming that the raising the debt ceiling incurs more debt. It's hilarious to watch the invincible ignorance that is modern conservatism.

Running from the question again...typical Progressive meme! You CAN'T answer it can you?

I mean look at you, you think paying your utility bills increases your debt. BWHAHHAHAHAHHAH! That's how out of touch conservatives are.

Waa? No, paying my utility bills reduces my wealth...wondering who's out of touch to make such a claim...
 
Running from the question again...typical Progressive meme! You CAN'T answer it can you?



Waa? No, paying my utility bills reduces my wealth...wondering who's out of touch to make such a claim...

See, you came through for me. You think paying bills for what you bought increases debt.

BWHAHHAHAHAHAHAHH!

God, it's like clockwork. Somebody hand this guy a balance sheet and walk him through it.
 
See, you came through for me. You think paying bills for what you bought increases debt.

BWHAHHAHAHAHAHAHH!

God, it's like clockwork. Somebody hand this guy a balance sheet and walk him through it.

Where did I say ANYTHING about debt? Perhaps you can explain how ME (as you asserted) using my surplus (wealth) to pay utility bills causes me to go into debt...no balance sheet required.

Now back to the question you continue to run from:

I keep hearing this 'hijacked' rhetoric but am confused by it. What exact positions do the 'tea partiers' hold that are not generally embraced by the balance of the GOP?

predicting the continuing typical Progressive meme of diversion...or perhaps denigration...:lamo
 
Guess you're not in favor of representative government. Seems to me the majority of the people you seem to despise are simply doing exactly what their constituents elected them to do.

But is this really the way a representative government is supposed to work? The ACA was passed by Congress and signed by the President. It is law. -If it's flawed it can be amended. Holding up the implementation of it - and worse putting people out of work unnecessarily - even if Congressional rules allow it simply doesn't seem right.
 
Where did I say ANYTHING about debt? Perhaps you can explain how ME (as you asserted) using my surplus (wealth) to pay utility bills causes me to go into debt...no balance sheet required.

Only now, at the end, does he understand. Debt ceiling has nothing to do with debt; it has to do with paying the utility bills.

NEXT RIGHTWING MEME!
 
Pitiful. You been perplexed by labels and not substance. Google debt ceiling and report back in.

But here's a hint, raising the debt ceiling doesn't raise any debt, anymore then paying your light bill does.

Of itself no. Raising the debt ceiling authorizes incurring more debt up to the new ceiling, so strictly speaking you're correct. I wouldn't bet against there being an increase in the debt once the debt ceiling is raised though
 
Of itself no. Raising the debt ceiling authorizes incurring more debt up to the new ceiling, so strictly speaking you're correct. I wouldn't bet against there being an increase in the debt once the debt ceiling is raised though

It authorizes raising money to pay obligations already incurred. Actually they could raise taxes to pay for that, or sell an aircraft carrier, for that matter. But either way, it isn't incurring debt -- it's paying bills.

To put it another way, how does a bill already incurred appear on a balance sheet and how does paying appear on a balance sheet.
 
I made the prediction. Let's see if it comes true. Meantime it give you a chance to vent your spleen at the government and the American people, and that's always fun to watch. Frothing teapartiers is a form of entertainment.

if as many people you claim to be from the tea party are on here, they should change the name of the from... debate politics to tea party politics.
 
Only now, at the end, does he understand. Debt ceiling has nothing to do with debt; it has to do with paying the utility bills.

please point out where I said it did...

perpetual strawman building...typical Progressive meme...discredited again...NEXT
 
It authorizes raising money to pay obligations already incurred. Actually they could raise taxes to pay for that, or sell an aircraft carrier, for that matter. But either way, it isn't incurring debt -- it's paying bills.

Wrong and right. It essentially opens an extended line of credit to pay for where we went over budget. So, you're admitting this admin has been running things over budget and needs an extended line of credit to pay for what they bought that we cannot afford. As the debt grows.
 
Wrong and right. It essentially opens an extended line of credit to pay for where we went over budget. So, you're admitting this admin has been running things over budget and needs an extended line of credit to pay for what they bought that we cannot afford. As the debt grows.

Wrong and right. The obligations of a budget already appear on the governments balance sheet as a liability. The debt ceiling makes sure that the liabilities are paid. It doesn't create new liabilities.

So no, the debt ceiling doesn't increase the debt. The debt is already there. It just pays the debt.

ARealConservative et al don't understand this fundamental concept because they don't understand basic principles of accounting and taxation. Also, they have trouble thinking since their minds are filled with obsessive rightwing meme, like the debt fetish.
 
It authorizes raising money to pay obligations already incurred. Actually they could raise taxes to pay for that, or sell an aircraft carrier, for that matter. But either way, it isn't incurring debt -- it's paying bills.

To put it another way, how does a bill already incurred appear on a balance sheet and how does paying appear on a balance sheet.

Yes I agree but it specifically authorizes the taking on of debt to pay those bills - akin to paying your electric bill with a credit card.

Please don't ask me about balance sheets - I was terrible at accounting. But from what I do remember of it that doesn't seem to me to be the right question. What matters I think not so much what the balance sheet looks like - because it should balance out to zero at the end of the day - but where the money to pay for it comes from.
 
Yes I agree but it specifically authorizes the taking on of debt to pay those bills - akin to paying your electric bill with a credit card.

Please don't ask me about balance sheets - I was terrible at accounting. But from what I do remember of it that doesn't seem to me to be the right question. What matters I think not so much what the balance sheet looks like - because it should balance out to zero at the end of the day - but where the money to pay for it comes from.

The debt already exists. The existing government obligations that resulted from the budget already appear on the government's balance sheet as a liability. Raising the debt ceiling merely pays the debt (one way or another). It doesn't create new liabilities.

This meme that raising the debt ceiling raises the debt is totally false. It pays for debts already incurred. To use Obama's example: you've already ordered the meal and got the bill. Paying the restaurant bill doesn't increase your debt. It just pays a debt. You have to pay for what you already bought.

ARealConsevative doesn't understand this basic accounting and governmental concept. (Too much Fox News I suspect)
 
Wrong and right. The obligations of a budget already appear on the governments balance sheet as a liability. The debt ceiling makes sure that the liabilities are paid. It doesn't create new liabilities.

So no, the debt ceiling doesn't increase the debt. The debt is already there. It just pays the debt.

ARealConservative et al don't understand this fundamental concept because they don't understand basic principles of accounting and taxation. Also, they have trouble thinking since their minds are filled with obsessive rightwing meme, like the debt fetish.


But are we not taking on new debt - new bond issues which carry interest payments - to pay the old debts?
 
Wrong and right. The obligations of a budget already appear on the governments balance sheet as a liability. The debt ceiling makes sure that the liabilities are paid. It doesn't create new liabilities.

So no, the debt ceiling doesn't increase the debt. The debt is already there. It just pays the debt.

ARealConservative et al don't understand this fundamental concept because they don't understand basic principles of accounting and taxation. Also, they have trouble thinking since their minds are filled with obsessive rightwing meme, like the debt fetish.

Wrong. It certainly does create new liabilities as the purpose of increasing the debt ceiling is to be able to acquire more credit to pay for said liabilities and more credit increases the debt. Liabilities brought on by spending more than we take in.
 
ARealConservative et al don't understand this fundamental concept because they don't understand basic principles of accounting and taxation. Also, they have trouble thinking since their minds are filled with obsessive rightwing meme, like the debt fetish.

no dice. you don't get to reinvent my position.

you have failed to explain how an annual operating surplus would create a condition where we exceeded our existing debt ceiling.

explain how that can happen please.
 
But are we not taking on new debt - new bond issues which carry interest payments - to pay the old debts?

If that were the case we wouldn't need to raise the debt ceiling.
 
I can't believe the GOP is that hateful that they would actually force a default.

I just don't want to go that far. Not yet.
 
I can't believe the GOP is that hateful that they would actually force a default.

I just don't want to go that far. Not yet.

I hear you. I'm just the messenger. Already Bachmann and the rest of the freaks are on record routing for a default. They are that ugly, that spiteful, that nihilistic.

Just look at some of the posters here -- they're cheering a default on.
 
no dice. you don't get to reinvent my position.

you have failed to explain how an annual operating surplus would create a condition where we exceeded our existing debt ceiling.

explain how that can happen please.

Keep dancing. It's fun to watch. But meantime raising the debt ceiling doesn't add a dime to debt. It just pays for liabilities already incurred and recorded on the government's balance sheet.

You've never run a business, have you?
 
Wrong. It certainly does create new liabilities as the purpose of increasing the debt ceiling is to be able to acquire more credit to pay for said liabilities and more credit increases the debt. Liabilities brought on by spending more than we take in.

Nope, the liability already exists. It merely pays for it, probably in the form of T-bills.

You're like the guy who thinks that if he doesn't pay his credit card bill, he's not in debt.
 
I hear you. I'm just the messenger. Already Bachmann and the rest of the freaks are on record routing for a default. They are that ugly, that spiteful, that nihilistic.

Just look at some of the posters here -- they're cheering a default on.

This is the one war in my lifetime I would sign up to die for. We are past the point of having legitimate differences in this country. I don't see a way to exist together any longer. our views on how to govern are simply way way too far apart
 
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