Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

[weaver2]

Why do you think a child not aborted is automatically going to suffer?

75% of all abortions are done for women in families that are living on or below the poverty line. These are families that are living in stressed conditions. Statistics show that adding unplanned and unwanted children to an already stressed family harms all members of the family but most of all the child of the unintended pregnancy.

Unintended pregnancy has a range of negative consequences—abridged educational careers (23, 24), labor-market struggles (19, 47), higher crime rates (2, 53), more abortions (48), increased levels of household stress (47, 48), and other related outcomes...... our estimates are inherently conservative (47).
...... (it is) one of the most critical challenges facing the public health system and imposes significant financial and social costs on society. Long-term studies confirm that reducing unintended pregnancy incidences would increase labor force participation rates, improve academic achievement, have better economic efficiency, increase the level of health and reduce in crime rates among vulnerable groups.

Unintended Pregnancy and Its Adverse Social and Economic Consequences on Health System: A Narrative Review Article - PMC

Unintended pregnancy is among the most troubling public health problems and a major reproductive health issue worldwide imposing appreciable socioeconomic burden on individuals and society. Governments generally plan to control growth of births ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[weaver2]

You have quite an imagination

Well, it's a huge relief to know that women don't get beaten up by men over sex issues. Good to know that women are enjoying this male activity and those statistics on domestic violence are just a figment of my imagination.

 

[Lursa]

Well, it's a huge relief to know that women don't get beaten up by men over sex issues. Good to know that women are enjoying this male activity and those statistics on domestic violence are just a figment of my imagination.

Do you notice that the only 2 posters that support the OP refuse to argue it seriously or directly?

 

[trouble13]

Well, it's a huge relief to know that women don't get beaten up by men over sex issues. Good to know that women are enjoying this male activity and those statistics on domestic violence are just a figment of my imagination.

Why are you quoting my posts when you are saying things that have absolutely nothing in common with what I said.

 

[Bodi]

So that means beating up women isn't related to sex, it's just a male recreational activity? And refusing to use a condom, banning abortions and then demanding exemption from child care payments is men's way of respecting women and showing love and equal status?

This is the view you have "of men"?

Pretty dark.

 

[weaver2]

This is the view you have "of men"? Pretty dark.

Yup, dark is my view of the men that ban abortions, refuse to use condoms, demand freedom from supporting children they sire and engage in recreational domestic violence.

 

[weaver2]

Why are you quoting my posts when you are saying things that have absolutely nothing in common with what I said.

Did you not, at post #131, say: ".........Contrary to popular belief, men are not as controlled by their dicks as they think. It's just something we pretend to be to flatter women and make them feel special. ......

Do you not understand what that is saying about domestic violence?

 

[trouble13]

Did you not, at post #131, say: ".........Contrary to popular belief, men are not as controlled by their dicks as they think. It's just something we pretend to be to flatter women and make them feel special. ......

Do you not understand what that is saying about domestic violence?

Yes I said that and it has nothing to do with domestic violence. That requires a huge leap to get where you are. I don't even know how to get there from my post to yours. Walk me through it if you like but I don't see it.

 

[Bodi]

Yup, dark is my view of the men that ban abortions, refuse to use condoms, demand freedom from supporting children they sire and engage in recreational domestic violence.

Oh, that is different. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Anyway… thoughts?

I agree with your OP (which was too long to quote for a short reply) 100%.

 

[noonereal]

Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

This argument is not about biology. This argument is about the law. The issue is currently unequal under the law. This discriminates against men and forces men to pay for a choice that the woman makes.

- Women currently have a post conception opt out of having and paying for a child that they do not want.
- Men currently do not have a post conception opt out of having and paying for a child that they do not want.

Right now, women have all of the power over their pregnancy, and that is how it should be. They can have the child or not have the child. That is how it should be.
Women should be able to have sex, get pregnant and walk away from parenthood and from paying for a child they do not want (abort the child) if they want to, and they have this right... or are in the process of getting it back.

Men should be able to have sex, get a woman pregnant and walk away from parenthood and from paying for a child they do not want if they want to, but they have not this right.

Currently men are bound to whatever choice a woman makes post conception. She can walk away, and he cannot walk away. This is unequal.

What many have proposed is essentially the following:

1. Man and woman have sex.
   1. Woman gets pregnant.
      1. Woman has options:
         1. Woman never informs man of pregnancy and aborts
         2. Woman never informs man of pregnancy and has child but never gets financial help from him
         3. Woman informs man of pregnancy and wants no financial support as they have some sort of joint custody
         4. Woman informs many of pregnancy and wants financials support from the man

At this point the man has options:

1. Man agrees to pay and has some sort of custody
2. Man agrees to pay and has no role in the child’s life
3. Man does not agree to pay for anything and wants nothing to do with her or the child

If he chooses option 3 then the woman has options again:

1. Woman has an abortion
2. Woman gives the baby up for adoption
3. Woman has the child and pays for it herself

It is pretty simple. As always, we will see posts from people that make the claim that if the man has options that the woman is being controlled. That is not the case. She has all the power over her body and pregnancy. At no time does the man have any power to have her abort or to not abort.

We might see people conflate the argument… insisting that biology and law can not be separated. That is utterly ridiculous. This is about post conception. She is already pregnant.

We might see the worst type of debate… the man has to pay and gave up all his rights once he came even though she did not give up her rights.

Anyway… thoughts?

Dumb ass thread.

 

[Bodi]

Dumb ass thread.

Sorry

 

[Bodi]

75% of all abortions are done for women in families that are living on or below the poverty line. These are families that are living in stressed conditions. Statistics show that adding unplanned and unwanted children to an already stressed family harms all members of the family but most of all the child of the unintended pregnancy.

Unintended pregnancy has a range of negative consequences—abridged educational careers (23, 24), labor-market struggles (19, 47), higher crime rates (2, 53), more abortions (48), increased levels of household stress (47, 48), and other related outcomes...... our estimates are inherently conservative (47).
...... (it is) one of the most critical challenges facing the public health system and imposes significant financial and social costs on society. Long-term studies confirm that reducing unintended pregnancy incidences would increase labor force participation rates, improve academic achievement, have better economic efficiency, increase the level of health and reduce in crime rates among vulnerable groups.

Unintended Pregnancy and Its Adverse Social and Economic Consequences on Health System: A Narrative Review Article - PMC

Unintended pregnancy is among the most troubling public health problems and a major reproductive health issue worldwide imposing appreciable socioeconomic burden on individuals and society. Governments generally plan to control growth of births ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Great reasons to support abortions programs for those living at or below the poverty line.

.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Men can opt out of conception anytime post conception. They only need to decide which suicide method they prefer.

 

[Lursa]

Men can opt out of conception anytime post conception. They only need to decide which suicide method they prefer.

The thing is...they want to be able to still have sex. Understood! But some men still expect sex without consequences, which the OP points out:

Men should be able to have sex, get a woman pregnant and walk away from parenthood and from paying for a child they do not want if they want to, but they have not this right.

Today, DNA testing and technology have made it much harder for men to skip out on their kids. What he doesnt point out is that women still cannot have sex without consequences, never could, still cant. But he really beats that "it's not equal!!!!" drum hard.

It's not equal. Women still cannot escape the consequences of a pregnancy...but he pretends our consequences dont exist by wailing "it has nothing to do with biology!!!!" Well, ask any woman that's been pregnant, having the kid or not, and you'll find out that it's not possible to remove "biology" from the equation for women. Bottom line for @Bodi and those who support running away* and leaving kids and taxpayers stuck with the bill: they dont care.

*because even an opt out law would not prevent the woman from still having the kid, it's really designed to coerce women into having the abortions, because the "man" is using it to tell her he'll leave her, he'll end it, wont support a baby, etc.

 

[weaver2]

Great reasons to support abortions programs for those living at or below the poverty line.

.

Even better reason to support a contraceptive program offering free access to every kind of birth control. Colorado found out that such a program more than paid for itself in reduced welfare costs, reduced unemployment and increased educational numbers of women graduating from HS and going on to post secondary education . When women have access to effective birth control that they control unintended pregnancies and abortions go way down.

 

[Bodi]

Men can opt out of conception anytime post conception. They only need to decide which suicide method they prefer.

You would rather see men die than to hold a woman accountable for their legal choice? ?

That is some sick shit.

 

[Bodi]

Even better reason to support a contraceptive program offering free access to every kind of birth control.

Totally agree.

 

[weaver2]

You would rather see men die than to hold a woman accountable for their legal choice? ?

That is some sick shit.

Bodi, that's sarcasm.

 

[Bodi]

Bodi, that's sarcasm.

I figured... but it is good material.

.

 

[ScrambledEggs]

Ahh yes, why can't the man get all of the benefits of sex without any of the risk?

And if a child is born, why should the man have any responsibility for anything?

And why should the welfare of a child/minor be protected by the state by requiring the man/father to support the welfare of the child?

Don't these women know us men own them and they work for us? I should be able to ejaculate into your vagina and go back to watching football. Don't like it? Sorry ho - I'm a man, and my child? Not my problem, unless you do exactly as I say

MAGA

 

[hecatmoggie]

I'm 100% against it and in fact if it were me and I had the power?

A man would be financially responsible for all the pregnancy bills and then for 18 years every cost for that child. If the man isn't going to be present in the life at least financially he should be.

The woman? she can deliver and give the child up for adoption and go on with her life without being present.

Two people, two choices to have sex, both knowing the responsibility of their actions. One 18 years commitment the other 10 months

(rape/incest/health of mother I'd consider other options)

 

[Bodi]

Ahh yes, why can't the man get all of the benefits of sex without any of the risk?

And if a child is born, why should the man have any responsibility for anything?

That is why she has a Choice to make.... she decides that he does not have any responsibility.

And why should the welfare of a child/minor be protected by the state by requiring the man/father to support the welfare of the child?

She decided...

Don't these women know us men own them and they work for us? I should be able to ejaculate into your vagina and go back to watching football. Don't like it? Sorry ho - I'm a man, and my child? Not my problem, unless you do exactly as I say

MAGA

Now this part is really weird. No idea how to respond. Slavery is illegal?

.

 

[Bodi]

I'm 100% against it and in fact if it were me and I had the power?

A man would be financially responsible for all the pregnancy bills and then for 18 years every cost for that child. If the man isn't going to be present in the life at least financially he should be.

Why? Under the OP, she made the choice to have the kid knowing it would all be on her.

The woman? she can deliver and give the child up for adoption and go on with her life without being present.

Now that is more like slavery than anything I have said.

Two people, two choices to have sex, both knowing the responsibility of their actions. One 18 years commitment the other 10 months

(rape/incest/health of mother I'd consider other options)

WAIT! You are saying that if she gives the baby up for adoption she is done and moves on with her life but he still has to pay for 18 years? LOL

.

 

[ScrambledEggs]

That is why she has a Choice to make.... she decides that he does not have any responsibility.

Ahh yes, all the risk of intercourse is on the woman

All the welfare of a child is on the woman

We own you bitchessss

MAGA!