Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

[CLAX1911]

Mississippi are even farther down that putting the responsibility where it belongs road.

No they're not they're completely missing that.

It takes two to tango. The responsibility is on both.

This is some idiot in Mississippi saying women can't kill their babies at any point during pregnancy so let's go after men. Because getting an erection is the same exact thing as killing a baby.

This only makes sense to people who do not accept that that thing in the womb is a potential person and erection is not.

 

[Bodi]

Has something like this happened to you ?

Just a hypothetical. I have two daughters that I wanted and love being a dad.

 

[Bodi]

except its nothing like slavery but yeah, other than that ...

Correct. It is more like Indentured Servitude.

 

[Bodi]

Don't you just love OHIO's "Conception begins at erection " law?

Ohio Democratic lawmakers propose 'Conception Begins at Erection Act' • Ohio Capital Journal

A new bill in Ohio would make it a crime for men to ejaculate without intending to have a baby.

ohiocapitaljournal.com

A new bill in Ohio would make it a crime for men to ejaculate without intending to have a baby.

They are taking money away from the child...

 

[Bodi]

Mississippi are even farther down that putting the responsibility where it belongs road.

All of the responsibility is on the woman. All of it. She can, where legal, make others pay for her choice though.

 

[weaver2]

Mississippi are even farther down that putting the responsibility where it belongs road.

I see you are from Southern New England. Curious people want to know when did Mississippi become Southern New England?

 

[Lursa]

Correct. It is more like Indentured Servitude.

Did someone force the man or woman to take the risk of having sex? If they chose to take the risk..shouldnt they be held accountable for the consequences?

Doesnt the man make a conscious decision to hand over control of his reproductive status to the woman?

 

[DaveJ]

Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

This argument is not about biology. This argument is about the law. The issue is currently unequal under the law. This discriminates against men and forces men to pay for a choice that the woman makes.

- Women currently have a post conception opt out of having and paying for a child that they do not want.
- Men currently do not have a post conception opt out of having and paying for a child that they do not want.

Right now, women have all of the power over their pregnancy, and that is how it should be. They can have the child or not have the child. That is how it should be.
Women should be able to have sex, get pregnant and walk away from parenthood and from paying for a child they do not want (abort the child) if they want to, and they have this right... or are in the process of getting it back.

Men should be able to have sex, get a woman pregnant and walk away from parenthood and from paying for a child they do not want if they want to, but they have not this right.

Currently men are bound to whatever choice a woman makes post conception. She can walk away, and he cannot walk away. This is unequal.

What many have proposed is essentially the following:

1. Man and woman have sex.
   1. Woman gets pregnant.
      1. Woman has options:
         1. Woman never informs man of pregnancy and aborts
         2. Woman never informs man of pregnancy and has child but never gets financial help from him
         3. Woman informs man of pregnancy and wants no financial support as they have some sort of joint custody
         4. Woman informs many of pregnancy and wants financials support from the man

At this point the man has options:

1. Man agrees to pay and has some sort of custody
2. Man agrees to pay and has no role in the child’s life
3. Man does not agree to pay for anything and wants nothing to do with her or the child

If he chooses option 3 then the woman has options again:

1. Woman has an abortion
2. Woman gives the baby up for adoption
3. Woman has the child and pays for it herself

It is pretty simple. As always, we will see posts from people that make the claim that if the man has options that the woman is being controlled. That is not the case. She has all the power over her body and pregnancy. At no time does the man have any power to have her abort or to not abort.

We might see people conflate the argument… insisting that biology and law can not be separated. That is utterly ridiculous. This is about post conception. She is already pregnant.

We might see the worst type of debate… the man has to pay and gave up all his rights once he came even though she did not give up her rights.

Anyway… thoughts?

Very logically laid out.
My question is, how can you justify the act of abortion given the possibility that a fetus is a human?
Or is that not a possibility.
None of my business of course, if you don't want to answer.

 

[Bodi]

Very logically laid out.

Thnx.

My question is, how can you justify the act of abortion given the possibility that a fetus is a human?
Or is that not a possibility.
None of my business of course, if you don't want to answer.

The possibility that the fetus is a human? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

 

[DaveJ]

Thnx.



The possibility that the fetus is a human? I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

I'm not sure what you don't understand about it. Simple concept.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Well if you can make a choice then requires commitment from someone else through legal Force it may not be slavery per se but why does someone's else's choice cost another person

its responsibility for the life created

Did you ever see that picture of the difference between public housing for women who can't afford to support their kids versus public housing for men who can't afford to support their kids?

no, I'm sure its spectacular ..... and likely far from the truth

 

[hecatmoggie]

Correct. It is more like Indentured Servitude.

I'm surprised Democrats don't try and push a bill to own brown people

 

[Bodi]

I'm not sure what you don't understand about it. Simple concept.

There is some agenda or something strange. Why even ask it? Are a human and a human going to produce a cat? WTF.

Pick up your game, mate.

 

[CLAX1911]

its responsibility for the life created

It's legally only a life if the woman decides it is

no, I'm sure its spectacular ..... and likely far from the truth

So you didn't see it.

No public housing for women who can't afford their kids is nice public housing forbid who can't afford their kids in jail

 

[DaveJ]

There is some agenda or something strange. Why even ask it? Are a human and a human going to produce a cat? WTF.

Pick up your game, mate.

Sorry, maybe I should have included the word "being" after Human. I assumed you would be morally opposed to killing a human. Never mind, we might have to agree to disagree. I don't personally think it makes sense to draw a line at the point of birth and say that that is the point when the human becomes a human being. I know some people see it that way.

 

[Bodi]

Sorry, maybe I should have included the word "being" after Human. I assumed you would be morally opposed to killing a human.

Nope. In fact, there need to be MOAR abortions...

Never mind, we might have to agree to disagree. I don't personally think it makes sense to draw a line at the point of birth and say that that is the point when the human becomes a human being. I know some people see it that way.

A human being becomes a Person after birth.
Before that they can be a human, human being,
kid, child or baby... but they are not a person
until after birth.



.

 

[Jagged]

I didn't say that they would.

Why do you think that children born into poverty, abuse, drugs and gangs is a good idea to chance?

You imply it by suggesting any man should legally be allowed to be a dead-beat dad. Not just the ones born into poverty, abuse, drugs and gangs.

 

[Jagged]

75% of all abortions are done for women in families that are living on or below the poverty line. These are families that are living in stressed conditions. Statistics show that adding unplanned and unwanted children to an already stressed family harms all members of the family but most of all the child of the unintended pregnancy.

Unintended pregnancy has a range of negative consequences—abridged educational careers (23, 24), labor-market struggles (19, 47), higher crime rates (2, 53), more abortions (48), increased levels of household stress (47, 48), and other related outcomes...... our estimates are inherently conservative (47).
...... (it is) one of the most critical challenges facing the public health system and imposes significant financial and social costs on society. Long-term studies confirm that reducing unintended pregnancy incidences would increase labor force participation rates, improve academic achievement, have better economic efficiency, increase the level of health and reduce in crime rates among vulnerable groups.

Unintended Pregnancy and Its Adverse Social and Economic Consequences on Health System: A Narrative Review Article - PMC

Unintended pregnancy is among the most troubling public health problems and a major reproductive health issue worldwide imposing appreciable socioeconomic burden on individuals and society. Governments generally plan to control growth of births ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This thread is about all pregnancies, not just the ones below the poverty rate. The vast majority being above the poverty rate.

 

[Jagged]

All of the responsibility is on the woman. All of it. She can, where legal, make others pay for her choice though.

So the guy she has sex with has no choice? He HAS to have sex with her? He HAS to get her pregnant?

 

[Lursa]

So the guy she has sex with has no choice? He HAS to have sex with her? He HAS to get her pregnant?

I do frequently ask this, why do men so willingly hand over their reproductive status to women? The women will act in their best interests if they get pregnant, right? So then shouldnt men do the same to protect themselves? Or accept the consequences of their decision? Because women do have to accept the consequences of their decision...right? But our consequences are biological/medical and the OP structures the issue demanding that we ignore "biology."

The OP claims it's about equality but he only means financial "equality". Pretty sure he means "equity" but wants it to sound more outrageous that somehow men are being discriminated against.

 

[Bodi]

You imply it by suggesting any man should legally be allowed to be a dead-beat dad. Not just the ones born into poverty, abuse, drugs and gangs.

In order to make things legally equal... men would need a post-conception opt-out like women have. That is logic, despite your emotional outburst.

 

[Bodi]

So the guy she has sex with has no choice? He HAS to have sex with her? He HAS to get her pregnant?

So you are arguing that she had to have sex? She had no choice and now HAS to kill the developing human?

See how bad your reasoning is?

 

[weaver2]

This thread is about all pregnancies, not just the ones below the poverty rate. The vast majority being above the poverty rate.

This thread is about males whining that women can end responsibility for a child by getting abortions and they can't.

 

[Lursa]

This thread is about males whining that women can end responsibility for a child by getting abortions and they can't.

And they know it, and still take the risk, and then yeah...whine.

 

[Bodi]

Because you didn't answer what the post-conception responsibilities for men and women are.

Sure I did. I have continually said that in this scenario she can choose to do whatever she wants to do.