Post Conception Opt-Out FOR MEN

[vegas giants]

The topic of the thread is not "legal equality of op-out options and parental rights". The topic is "Post-conception opt-out for men".

If one sees the father, only, as having the problem and abortion is perceived to end only the mother's responsibility/$cost then the inequality resulting from not aborting can be fixed with a financial opt out law for only the father.

If one looks at the total responsibility/$cost of all the people, organizations, institutions involved there is no way to design a law that allows any of them to opt out of supporting a child, except only the father.

However, if one looks at equality, only, as the problem today's laws are already fair to everyone involved:
If the woman aborts everybody's responsibility/$cost ends.
If the woman keeps the child nobody gets to opt out and everybody is involved in paying for the support of that child.

If the mother had a chance to opt everybody out and didn't is equality served allowing only the father a retroactive opt-out? Does that mean the mother has decision making power that the father can never have. Yup. Biology is a bitch.

If the man opt out the woman can also opt out thru abortion or adoption.


If she chooses to continue that stupid decision is on her and she shoukd be held responsible for it

 

[vegas giants]

Sex followed by threat of ruin is violent. A person goes from secure, intimate, to hardened enemy and subject.

The man made the fetus. She didn't do it alone. He's responsible for it. Personal responsibility. He doesn't get to tell a woman to kill it or be ruined. He doesn't get to use his personal obligations to manipulate her.

The dream of impregnating women and then threatening to ruin them is a misogynist one. It's a violent one. I cannot imagine being intimate with someone and then threatening them with ruin if they don't kill a fetus. One owes such a relation more.

Perhaps, deep down, the whole concept of an "opt out" is about de-personalizing sex. Essentially, turning sex into prostitution or, worse, rape. Acting like the whole thing was a contractual obligation and not a relationship. Acting like Constitutional rights to blahblah are more important than backing intimacy with integrity.

Listen to you.


The man made the fetus



And the woman is just this innocent victim?????



Holy cow

 

[ecofarm]

Listen to you.

The man made the fetus

And the woman is just this innocent victim?????

Holy cow

If a man engages in intimacy with a woman and then abdicates responsibility, she is an innocent victim.

 

[Lursa]

The man made the fetus. She didn't do it alone. He's responsible for it. Personal responsibility. He doesn't get to tell a woman to kill it or be ruined. He doesn't get to use his personal obligations to manipulate her.

This is it right here. They want to use it to escape consequences they knowingly risked...and then make it all about how she's a bad person if she still decides to have the kid. It's manipulation because it's all they have left, since the law supports her right to choose and then recognizes the child's rights to support.

 

[weaver2]

backing intimacy with integrity.

That's the key to all intelligent relationships.

 

[ecofarm]

Fantasizing about intimacy followed by threats of ruin is rape fantasy.

That's why such crap doesn't work in public. It's only on anonymous forums and in prisons. It's not some new great idea. It's shameful garbage.

 

[Lursa]

This is it right here. They want to use it to escape consequences they knowingly risked...and then make it all about how she's a bad person if she still decides to have the kid. It's manipulation because it's all they have left, since the law supports her right to choose and then recognizes the child's rights to support.

Oops, here: @Bodhisattva

 

[JANFU]

If he chooses option 3 then the woman has options again:

Woman has an abortion
Woman gives the baby up for adoption
Woman has the child and pays for it herself

It is pretty simple.

Yes she has 3 choices
Woman has an abortion
Woman gives the baby up for adoption
Woman has the child and both pay to support the child

It is pretty simple.

Bodhi women have been literally fffd over by man since the time of Eve.

It is all the woman's choice as it should be

 

[Bodi]

Yes she has 3 choices
Woman has an abortion
Woman gives the baby up for adoption
Woman has the child and both pay to support the child

It is pretty simple.

Bodhi women have been literally fffd over by man since the time of Eve.

It is all the woman's choice as it should be

Unless she is raped how is she being ****ed over when she has all of the power over her body and her choice?

 

[JANFU]

Unless she is raped how is she being ****ed over when she has all of the power over her body and her choice?

Well do women get pregnant from a turkey baster?
Or was it Immaculate Conception?

 

[AGENT J]

The topic of the thread is not "legal equality of op-out options and parental rights". The topic is "Post-conception opt-out for men".

100% false LMAO you don't get to magically change the topic so the rest of your feelings and lies dont matter LOL

I love the failed desperation of few posts not liking and or being able to change the facts so retarded and dishonest strawmen are posted that are completely meaningless and laughable to try and hide the support of inequality and discrimination that currently exists on this topic

If the topic is A . . .and the facts about the topic are 1, 2 and 3

getting upset and screaming and pouting no no no the topic is B, C ,D and therefore 8, 9 10 matter!!!! GRRRRRRR is never going to work and be taken seriously by anybody honest, educated ad subjective
keep trying though its hilarious!

Facts haven't change
FACTS
1.) the topic is legal equality of opt-out options and parental rights
2.) biology is 100% meaningless to the topic of legal equality of opt-out options and parental rights
3.) legal equality is not based on coercion
4.) legal equality regarding parental rights and legal opt-out options currently does not exist
5.) control over pregnancy/giving birth is 100% meaningless to the topic of legal equality, nobody wants that changed
6.) risks/consequences of pregnancy/birth is 100% meaningless to the topic of legal equality of opt-out options and parental rights
7.) safe haven laws require the mother permission or a type of condition and are factually not equal
8.) if you support safe haven laws and or the mother giving up the child for adoption without the fathers consent and you do not support op-out laws for the father that is hypocritical

If anybody disagrees feel free to factually prove otherwise thanks!

 

[Bodi]

Well do women get pregnant from a turkey baster?
Or was it Immaculate Conception?

You didn't even come close to answer the question.

 

[JANFU]

Unless she is raped how is she being ****ed over when she has all of the power over her body and her choice?

You wish to have power over another persons body?

 

[vegas giants]

If a man engages in intimacy with a woman and then abdicates responsibility, she is an innocent victim.

A man can not make a fetus. You are so quick to make him the villain you cant even get the biology right. Lol

 

[vegas giants]

Well do women get pregnant from a turkey baster?
Or was it Immaculate Conception?

She does not choose to have sex????

 

[Bodi]

You wish to have power over another persons body?

This is getting boring. I said that she has control over her body and choice and that is how it should be.

Now will you answer my question?

Unless she is raped how is she being ****ed over when she has all of the power over her body and her choice?

 

[Bodi]

If a man engages in intimacy with a woman and then abdicates responsibility, she is an innocent victim

So if a woman engages in intimacy with a man and then kills his developing child against his wishes, is he an innocent victim?

 

[ecofarm]

So if a woman engages in intimacy with a man and then kills his developing child against his wishes, is he an innocent victim?

"His developing child"

lol

 

[weaver2]

100% false LMAO you don't get to magically change the topic so the rest of your feelings and lies dont matter LOL

I love the failed desperation of few posts not liking and or being able to change the facts so retarded and dishonest strawmen are posted that are completely meaningless and laughable to try and hide the support of inequality and discrimination that currently exists on this topic

If the topic is A . . .and the facts about the topic are 1, 2 and 3

getting upset and screaming and pouting no no no the topic is B, C ,D and therefore 8, 9 10 matter!!!! GRRRRRRR is never going to work and be taken seriously by anybody honest, educated ad subjective
keep trying though its hilarious!

Facts haven't change
FACTS
1.) the topic is legal equality of opt-out options and parental rights
2.) biology is 100% meaningless to the topic of legal equality of opt-out options and parental rights
3.) legal equality is not based on coercion
4.) legal equality regarding parental rights and legal opt-out options currently does not exist
5.) control over pregnancy/giving birth is 100% meaningless to the topic of legal equality, nobody wants that changed
6.) risks/consequences of pregnancy/birth is 100% meaningless to the topic of legal equality of opt-out options and parental rights
7.) safe haven laws require the mother permission or a type of condition and are factually not equal
8.) if you support safe haven laws and or the mother giving up the child for adoption without the fathers consent and you do not support op-out laws for the father that is hypocritical

If anybody disagrees feel free to factually prove otherwise thanks!

If you had not been so intent in laughing off your ass you would have noticed that I agreed with your analysis.

 

[JANFU]

This is getting boring. I said that she has control over her body and choice and that is how it should be.

Now will you answer my question?

Unless she is raped how is she being ****ed over when she has all of the power over her body and her choice?

Assigning pregnancy and all the results on her.
As I stated you want to control her decision making, her body and choices.

 

[vegas giants]

Assigning pregnancy and all the results on her.
As I stated you want to control her decision making, her body and choices.

And you want to control his

 

[JANFU]

And you want to control his

Not at all but I am into personal responsibility for actions taken.

 

[vegas giants]

Not at all but I am into personal responsibility for actions taken.

So am I. If she signs a contract preconception she should be held to it

 

[AGENT J]

If you had not been so intent in laughing off your ass you would have noticed that I agreed with your analysis.

No you factually didnt, you tried (and completely failed) to change the topic
Why do you post so many lies? Do you think they fool anybody? LMAO

then the rest of your post was omitted because it was meaningless to the topic and or made up falsehoods

 

[JANFU]

So am I. If she signs a contract preconception she should be held to it

Nonsense