Polling on Jan. 6 shows the vast majority of Americans aren’t crazy

[element94]

Trust me, the USA is going to be fine. We won’t be brought down by idiots like this. Don’t worry.

Then we need to start throwing the leaders in jail.

 

[NWRatCon]

The facts will likely speak for themselves. Alleged biases don't create facts. Nor is this pre-determined

Yet again, the facts uncovered will be the determiner. Not some emotional and useless poll

At least some opinion will change as facts come out.

 

[Hampton86]

At least some opinion will change as facts come out.

Kind of the whole point

 

[NWRatCon]

Then we need to start throwing the leaders in jail.

That's how we "can be fine".

 

[element94]

That's how we "can be fine".

Jailing those responsible for causing the attack on the Capitol is a bad thing?

 

[NWRatCon]

Jailing those responsible for causing the attack on the Capitol is a bad thing?

I'm sorry, no. What I meant was that "if we want to be fine, the leaders of the insurrection need to be jailed ".

 

[Perotista]

The facts will likely speak for themselves. Alleged biases don't create facts. Nor is this pre-determined

Yet again, the facts uncovered will be the determiner. Not some emotional and useless poll

You’ll call them facts, but what percentage of all Americans will? Let’s say the Republicans form a committee to investigate Biden. Then McCarthy doesn’t allow Pelosi to put the Democrats on that committee she wants to. Instead McCarthy places the Democrats on the committee he wants to. Would you call that committee biased? Would you believe the results as fact? That’s exactly what we have here only it was Pelosi who chose the Republicans and it’s 1-6 being investigated instead of Biden.

I wouldn’t believe or trust McCarthy’s committee to find the truth and come up with valid facts any more than I’ll believe or trust Pelosi’s committee to find the truth and come up with valid facts. Now, the FBI, I trust them. They’ve done a good job of investigating and bringing over 700 charges against those who deserve it. But I certainly don’t trust Pelosi nor McCarthy, for them it’s all political. Both trying to gain a political advantage. I would wager once Pelosi’s committee is done with, only democrats will believe, republicans won’t along with most independents. Pelosi brought partisan politics into this. The FBI wouldn’t have, and they haven’t have so far.

 

[element94]

I'm sorry, no. What I meant was that "if we want to be fine, the leaders of the insurrection need to be jailed ".

I thought I saw a question mark, my fault.

 

[NWRatCon]

You’ll call them facts, but what percentage of all Americans will? Let’s say the Republicans form a committee to investigate Biden. Then McCarthy doesn’t allow Pelosi to put the Democrats on that committee she wants to. Instead McCarthy places the Democrats on the committee he wants to. Would you call that committee biased? Would you believe the results as fact? That’s exactly what we have here only it was Pelosi who chose the Republicans and it’s 1-6 being investigated instead of Biden.

I wouldn’t believe or trust McCarthy’s committee to find the truth and come up with valid facts any more than I’ll believe or trust Pelosi’s committee to find the truth and come up with valid facts. Now, the FBI, I trust them. They’ve done a good job of investigating and bringing over 700 charges against those who deserve it. But I certainly don’t trust Pelosi nor McCarthy, for them it’s all political. Both trying to gain a political advantage. I would wager once Pelosi’s committee is done with, only democrats will believe, republicans won’t along with most independents. Pelosi brought partisan politics into this. The FBI wouldn’t have, and they haven’t have so far.

I'm going to, reluctantly, have to call "bullshit" on this one, my friend. There was a bipartisan bill to create a commission, the Republicans killed it. Pelosi created a bipartisan committee to investigate, and McCarthy alone tried to sabotage it. There is only one party playing politics here, and it is not the committee, and is not Pelosi.

 

[SoCal]

...Of which 39% lean toward the GOP, 34% toward the Democrats with the remaining 27% as pure or true independents. Gallup’s figures are more than a month old; they usually do this once or twice a month. These also are very dynamic and see lots of changes.

Looking at the senate, still very early. I think the Democrats can pickup Wisconsin and Pennsylvania with a 50-50 shot at North Carolina. The Republicans have a 50-50 shot at Georgia, perhaps Arizona, longer odds against that through.

Yeah, I never could figure out why Biden picked Harris. She isn’t liked today, has horrible favorable ratings. Heck, she wasn’t liked by democrats in their primaries. It made no sense to me. I agree Biden is too old. Harris, independents dislike her more than Trump for some reason. Where does that leave the Democrats, maybe my personal favorite. Tammy Duckworth from Illinois. She’s a spunky gal and a disabled vet. She’s also from flyover country which I think is a plus, she’s a fresh, young face. I’d get on her bandwagon if she ran. But first, let’s get 2022 in the bag as I think the midterms will have a direct effect on the presidential in 2024.

I don't have the detailed knowledge of redistricting you have, but as you point out, the bottom line is that they're going to take the House. And again, as far as independents go, since the rise of Trumpism, the division between the two camps have never been more stark and you should take the polling with a grain of salt. It's like when people say they don't have a racist bone in their body.

I think Harris would make a great president, I wish she was be out in the public eye much more. She's playing the traditional role of a VP just like Biden is as president, when these are far from traditional times. I don't believe either are meeting the challenge of Trumpism. Duckworth was my favorite pick for VP, being a vet would really help many overcome their hesitation of voting in our first women president. I think unless something pretty radical happens between now and 24', the Democrats are in deep doo-doo...

 

[Perotista]

I don't have the detailed knowledge of redistricting you have, but as you point out, the bottom line is that they're going to take the House. And again, as far as independents go, since the rise of Trumpism, the division between the two camps have never been more stark and you should take the polling with a grain of salt. It's like when people say they don't have a racist bone in their body.

I think Harris would make a great president, I wish she was be out in the public eye much more. She's playing the traditional role of a VP just like Biden is as president, when these are far from traditional times. I don't believe either are meeting the challenge of Trumpism. Duckworth was my favorite pick for VP, being a vet would really help many overcome their hesitation of voting in our first women president. I think unless something pretty radical happens between now and 24', the Democrats are in deep doo-doo...

2024 is three year off. Way to early to be worried about it. So much can happen, many unforeseen events will occur to effect it between now and then. Even the midterms aren’t written in stone. Go back six months, Biden was sitting on 55% overall job approval, 41% disapproval. The Democrats led in the generic congressional ballot 48-41. It’s been downhill for Biden and company since then. Now there’s nothing saying that in a few months down the road, those numbers can’t rebound to where they were six months ago. If so, the midterms might turn out to the good for Democrats. These numbers are very dynamic and change constantly. I don’t think they will unless Biden and company can get inflation under control. That is what most Americans consider this nation’s most important problem. It’s inflation, rising prices that is hurting Biden and company the most followed by COVID.



Not that Biden and company can do much about those two issues. They’ll just have to weather them out. But the public expects them to solve these problems. Presidents and the party in power take credit when the economy is going great guns, they’re going to get the blame when it isn’t or turns sour. That’s a fact of political life.

By historical standards, the average loss of seats in the house is 26 for the first midterm. Holding loses to the projected 10-15 seats would beat the historical average. What is hurting the Democrats is their loss of 13 seats in 2020 when Biden won the presidency by 7 million plus votes. Without those loses, the loss of 10-15 still would still leave the democrats in control. 2020 was the first election since 1884 where a candidate won the popular vote via the presidency and lost house seats. Grover Cleveland won the presidency back then, he won the popular vote by a slim 58,000 votes and lost 8 house seats. Biden’s 7 million plus win normally would have brought in at least 20 new Democratic house members. It didn’t. 2020 wasn’t a normal election. It was an election to get rid of Trump, not an endorsement or rejection of either party. You had 8 million ticket splitters. 8 million people who voted for Biden, against Trump would be more accurate and then voted Republican down ballot. That’s an unheard-of number of ticket splitters. I don’t think that has ever happened before.

My advice. Don’t get too down in the dump. 2016 wasn’t a normal election, 2020 wasn’t either. I have a gut feeling 2022 won’t be either.

As for Harris, I don't know why she is so disliked. But in poll after poll, her favorable's are always in the 30's with unfavorable's in the 50's. Personality maybe. Her favorable/unfavorable numbers are Trump like with his very unpleasent personality.

 

[poweRob]

A frighteningly high percentage of Republicans remain in utter denial about the Jan. 6 insurrection, choosing to exonerate the president who instigated it and downplaying the violence that occurred. Still, let’s remember that a very large share of Americans have not lost their minds nor forgotten last year’s events.

A new Associated Press-NORC poll shows results similar to other major polling. Some 57 percent say former president Donald Trump deserves “a great deal” or “quite a bit” of the blame; that number grows to 70 percent hold when we include respondents who think Trump was moderately to blame.

Even 4 in 10 Republicans say he bears at least a moderate amount of responsibility. It’s still mind-blowing that 60 percent of Republicans say Trump bears little or no responsibility; that number, however, is 11 points lower than it was a year ago.

In addition, the poll says, “Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the riot was extremely or very violent, and about 7 in 10 think Congress should continue investigating the events of January 6.”............

In sum, we have treated the problem of violent extremism too broadly (causing politicians to cower in fear of a political minority), and too narrowly (focusing too much on legal and political reforms). The data tells us that democracy and nonviolence are political winners, and that dabbling in political violence is a loser. We need to start acting as though we are under threat from a pernicious, anti-democratic and violent minority — because we are.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/05/polling-jan-6-trump-blame/

Before the last paragraph posted above, Ms. Rubin discusses 3 responses we, as a society, should make. (I have summarized these.) (1) We should make clear the source of the threat - Trump and the MAGA movement. (2) We should do more to combat domestic terrorism, and the DOJ should lead in that effort. (3) We should address inroads that domestic terrorism has made into the military and religion. Noting the connection between Christian Nationalism and violence. Here she says “.....the prevalence of Christian imagery at the Capitol: “Comfortably intermingled with these tributes to white supremacy were Christian symbols and rhetoric. There were numerous Bibles, crosses, ‘Jesus Saves’ signs and ‘Jesus 2020’ flags that mirrored the design of the Trump campaign flag.”

We’re seeing a lot of discussion about January 6 this week as we approach the 1 year anniversary of that event. Our Democratic leaders and president need to make certain that this discussion continues.

That's good to know.

 

[poweRob]

Poll: House's Jan. 6 probe is popular — even among many Republicans​

Three out of five respondents say Trump is responsible for the events that led to the U.S. Capitol riot.

"...Survey respondents also overwhelmingly believe that Trump's supporters were to blame for breaching the Capitol on Jan. 16, 62 percent to 14 percent..."

Poll: Most Americans support independent investigation into Capitol riot, believe white nationalism played a part​

Also very good to know.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

"You can't love your country only when you win." President Joe Biden

The Capitol insurrection was based on a lie about the 2020 election. And for a whole year now, the insurrection itself has been lied about.

Donald Trump supporters' violent attack on the Capitol has been the subject of a dishonesty campaign that began amid the fog of January 6 and escalated even as the facts became clearer. Trump, some right-wing media figures and some Republican members of Congress have mounted a sustained effort to rewrite the history of that deadly day. CNN

CNN reports, "President Joe Biden on Thursday marked the first anniversary of the January 6 insurrection by forcefully calling out former President Donald Trump for attempting to undo American democracy, saying such an insurrection must never happen again.

"Biden vowed to defend the nation's founding ideals from the threats posed by the violent mob that stormed the Capitol one year ago and the prevailing lies that Trump and his allies continue to repeat about the 2020 election."

"For the first time in our history, a President had not just lost an election. He tried to prevent the peaceful transfer of power as a violent mob reached the Capitol," Biden said in a speech from the US Capitol that lasted just under 30 minutes. "But they failed. They failed. And on this day of remembrance, we must make sure that such an attack never, never happens again."

Republicans are a no-show. Republican lawmakers are not in town for the anniversary of the attack on our capitol. It is a given that Trump's gullible, uninformed followers will not view the events of today, hear our President, and they certainly will not watch the videos of the attacks on the police and the ransacking of the capitol. Staying loyal to Trump requires ignorance so they can lie about it.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

However, before the day’s insufferable events began, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis was asked his opinion of what would take place. DeSantis rightly noted this is Christmas Day for the DC system; they have been preparing for this day for almost a year.

Republicans are a no-show. Republican lawmakers are not in town for the anniversary of the attack on our capitol.

On January Six, 2021, after weeks of planning and communication, Republican President Donald Trump incited an attack on our capitol with these words:

“We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.
When you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules.
We fight like hell and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”

On a day when 140 police were attacked and wounded, on a day when our capitol was ransacked and Senators and House members had to flee for their lives, on a day when five people were killed in the attack, on a day when extremists wanted to hang the vice-president, on a day when Trump and his allies in Congress attempted an overthrow of our government, Republican Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said these words.

"It has been stunning to see some Democrats try to exploit this anniversary to advance partisan policy goals that long predated this event."

Apparently this Republican leader would have us treat January six, 2022, as just another day. In any case that is the genre of today's Republican Party, Trump's Republican Party.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

"This mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the President and other powerful people," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Jan. 19, 2021.

"Former President Trump's actions that preceded the riot were a disgraceful dereliction of duty... There is no question that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of that day," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Feb. 13, 2021.

"The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters," House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Jan. 13, 2021.

 

[Hampton86]

You’ll call them facts, but what percentage of all Americans will? Let’s say the Republicans form a committee to investigate Biden. Then McCarthy doesn’t allow Pelosi to put the Democrats on that committee she wants to. Instead McCarthy places the Democrats on the committee he wants to. Would you call that committee biased? Would you believe the results as fact? That’s exactly what we have here only it was Pelosi who chose the Republicans and it’s 1-6 being investigated instead of Biden.

I wouldn’t believe or trust McCarthy’s committee to find the truth and come up with valid facts any more than I’ll believe or trust Pelosi’s committee to find the truth and come up with valid facts. Now, the FBI, I trust them. They’ve done a good job of investigating and bringing over 700 charges against those who deserve it. But I certainly don’t trust Pelosi nor McCarthy, for them it’s all political. Both trying to gain a political advantage. I would wager once Pelosi’s committee is done with, only democrats will believe, republicans won’t along with most independents. Pelosi brought partisan politics into this. The FBI wouldn’t have, and they haven’t have so far.

You can believe what you want, but if the facts are there, then they are there. Most people look for facts. Seems mostly trumpers that distrust facts (or reality or science). Never going to make those paranoid nuts believe anything reasonable.

 

[Perotista]

You can believe what you want, but if the facts are there, then they are there. Most people look for facts. Seems mostly trumpers that distrust facts (or reality or science). Never going to make those paranoid nuts believe anything reasonable.

Not only Trumpers, but 58% of all Americans think the committe is biased. You can skate all you want around that. It would have been much better off for all of us, Trumpers, anti-Trumpers, those who are neither, Republicans, Democrats, independents, the party faithful, the non-affiliated, etc. to let the FBI handle the investigations and to bring charges against those who warranted it instead of making 1-6 a partisan political issue. Especially when Pelosi hand picked who would be on the committee, both Democrats and Republicans.

58 percent say Jan. 6 House committee is biased: poll

A majority of voters say they believe the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol is biased, according to a new Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey. Fifty-eight perce…

thehill.com

There's a total lack of confidence in congress.

Only 12 Percent of Americans Have Confidence in Congress:...

U.S. adults also had relatively low levels of confidence in the presidency and the Supreme Court.

www.newsweek.com

As for me, I trust the FBI, as for congress, either party, I have absolutely no trust in them, I don't believe a word they say, it's all partisan politics to either gain power or retain power. Lies, half truths, exaggerations, out of context quotes, etc. etc. etc. I'll follow the FBI investigations, not congress's. I believe justice will come from the FBI, not a hand picked biased committee which will once finished, finalized pre-determine results.

 

[Perotista]

I'm going to, reluctantly, have to call "bullshit" on this one, my friend. There was a bipartisan bill to create a commission, the Republicans killed it. Pelosi created a bipartisan committee to investigate, and McCarthy alone tried to sabotage it. There is only one party playing politics here, and it is not the committee, and is not Pelosi.

Perhaps, but whatever it is, whatever reason, the fact remains 58% of all Americans think the 1-6 committee is biased and their finding won't be fair and or honest. Now you want a fair investigation in which most Americans believe in, let the FBI handle this. They've done an excellent job so far, bringing over 700 charges. The FBI kept partisan politics out of their investigations. Pelosi and company reeks of it. Pelosi's fault, McCarthy's fault, doesn't matter. It still reeks of partisan politics to a good majority of Americans. Biased is the word used. One shouldn't expect anything less, that what congress is all about, partisan politics. Especially in today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide and the super, mega, ultra-high partisanship.

Truth be told, I haven't paid a single second worth of attention to the house hearings. Now I've followed the FBI's. I'm all ears when the FBI talks and provides information, deaf on Pelosi's committee. But to each their own. You won't get truth and or honesty from any politican.

 

[cpwill]

That's good to know.

I think - and, I have no evidence to support this; it is completely supposition - that even the numbers of Republicans who support Trumps version of events and the actions of the rioters is likely somewhat overstated. In these (stupid - so. very. stupid) tribal times, we probably have a lot of Republicans who are personally queasy with what happened, and would prefer to just pretend that it didn't, but, they are as hell aren't going to admit THAT to mr-pollster-from-that-lib-media-outlet-guy.

I guess you could call them shy normals?

 

[NWRatCon]

Perhaps, but whatever it is, whatever reason, the fact remains 58% of all Americans think the 1-6 committee is biased and their finding won't be fair and or honest. Now you want a fair investigation in which most Americans believe in, let the FBI handle this. They've done an excellent job so far, bringing over 700 charges. The FBI kept partisan politics out of their investigations. Pelosi and company reeks of it. Pelosi's fault, McCarthy's fault, doesn't matter. It still reeks of partisan politics to a good majority of Americans. Biased is the word used. One shouldn't expect anything less, that what congress is all about, partisan politics. Especially in today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide and the super, mega, ultra-high partisanship.

Truth be told, I haven't paid a single second worth of attention to the house hearings. Now I've followed the FBI's. I'm all ears when the FBI talks and provides information, deaf on Pelosi's committee. But to each their own. You won't get truth and or honesty from any politican.

I think, my friend, your biases are showing, and that's too bad, because you're deliberately blinding yourself to significant, valid (and damning) information. Forget the polls. McConnell and McCarthy set out to portray the investigation as political, and you've fallen willingly into the obvious trap. They don't have any qualms about bias. You know that, I know that. What they are really afraid of is investigation, period. Anyone's investigation. Chris Wray and Merrick Garland will be their next targets. Again, you know that.

Their fear is justified, because we know they were up to their mouths in coordinating and justifying the plot. There are 147+ congressional participants in the coup plot, and when their participation is exposed, as it is being exposed, it spells big trouble. Criminal trouble, political trouble. It may fracture the party. Frankly, that would be a good thing. Cut out the rot, save the tree.

As noted in the OP article, "Even 4 in 10 Republicans say he bears at least a moderate amount of responsibility. It’s still mind-blowing that 60 percent of Republicans say Trump bears little or no responsibility; that number, however, is 11 points lower than it was a year ago.

In addition, the poll says, “Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the riot was extremely or very violent, and about 7 in 10 think Congress should continue investigating the events of January 6.”

So, there is a core within the party, maybe not the majority, but a significant plurality, that is rational. That's the core that matters and has the potential to lead the party to recovery. Liz Cheney is part of that core.

 

[Perotista]

I think, my friend, your biases are showing, and that's too bad, because you're deliberately blinding yourself to significant, valid (and damning) information. Forget the polls. McConnell and McCarthy set out to portray the investigation as political, and you've fallen willingly into the obvious trap. They don't have any qualms about bias. You know that, I know that. What they are really afraid of is investigation, period. Anyone's investigation. Chris Wray and Merrick Garland will be their next targets. Again, you know that.

Their fear is justified, because we know they were up to their mouths in coordinating and justifying the plot. There are 147+ congressional participants in the coup plot, and when their participation is exposed, as it is being exposed, it spells big trouble. Criminal trouble, political trouble. It may fracture the party. Frankly, that would be a good thing. Cut out the rot, save the tree.

As noted in the OP article, "Even 4 in 10 Republicans say he bears at least a moderate amount of responsibility. It’s still mind-blowing that 60 percent of Republicans say Trump bears little or no responsibility; that number, however, is 11 points lower than it was a year ago.

In addition, the poll says, “Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the riot was extremely or very violent, and about 7 in 10 think Congress should continue investigating the events of January 6.”

So, there is a core within the party, maybe not the majority, but a significant plurality, that is rational. That's the core that matters and has the potential to lead the party to recovery. Liz Cheney is part of that core.

I don't trust either political and am loyal to none. If that is being blind, so be it. I trust the FBI, not the Democratic nor the Republican political parties. If the Democrats want to continue to investigate, fine. That doesn't mean since I think they're biased with pre-determine results already printed, I'll believe them. If the FBI or someother non-partisan, non-biased source backs up their findings, then that's different. I think the FBI bringing charges against 700 plus of the participants is a good start. Who has Pelosi's committee charged?

The difference is you have faith and trust in a political party, I don't. I wouldn't trust either major party as far as I could throw a 10 ton bull elephant. As for Trump, I think he's disgusting and for his antics like election interferrence here in Georgia, he ought to have charges brought up against him and thrown in jail. That would be done in the legal system, not by partisan congressional committees.

Perhaps you're right, my disgust for both major parties as a result of what I believe of putting loyalty to party over loyalty to nation, for the good of the party over the good of the country has made me blind. what I keep looking for is what is good for all of America, not just a poltiical party's base.

 

[Hampton86]

Not only Trumpers, but 58% of all Americans think the committe is biased. You can skate all you want around that. It would have been much better off for all of us, Trumpers, anti-Trumpers, those who are neither, Republicans, Democrats, independents, the party faithful, the non-affiliated, etc. to let the FBI handle the investigations and to bring charges against those who warranted it instead of making 1-6 a partisan political issue. Especially when Pelosi hand picked who would be on the committee, both Democrats and Republicans.

58 percent say Jan. 6 House committee is biased: poll

A majority of voters say they believe the House select committee investigating the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol is biased, according to a new Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey. Fifty-eight perce…

thehill.com

There's a total lack of confidence in congress.

Only 12 Percent of Americans Have Confidence in Congress:...

U.S. adults also had relatively low levels of confidence in the presidency and the Supreme Court.

www.newsweek.com

As for me, I trust the FBI, as for congress, either party, I have absolutely no trust in them, I don't believe a word they say, it's all partisan politics to either gain power or retain power. Lies, half truths, exaggerations, out of context quotes, etc. etc. etc. I'll follow the FBI investigations, not congress's. I believe justice will come from the FBI, not a hand picked biased committee which will once finished, finalized pre-determine results.

That number is fluid, and will drop as facts are uncovered.

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

I think there may be a basis for discussion in this, but I'm a bit skeptical. Let's try this:

How bad do you think it was? I think it was bad. Really bad. But I don't think it even belongs in the same conversation as Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Could it have been that bad? Theoretically, yes. But the chances of that actually happening were incredibly small and the likely outcome of it even approaching success would have been a lot of dead rioters.

What, if any, do you consider the current threat level? Of an attack like that happening again? Very small. Maybe the worst part of the security breach aspect of it is what it showed our foreign enemies. Imagine some asshole sitting in a cave in Afghanistan or where ever watching that unfold thinking to himself "wow that was easy."

Are efforts to remove neutral officials and manipulate vote counting procedures part of an "overall plan" and what effect do you think they are intended to have? If there is a specific plan to install someone in a position to count only specific votes, or ignore votes, or otherwise falsify vote tallies, then that certainly should be investigated and exposed. As far as voter "restrictions" go my requirement is that I see a specific example of a person who voted legally in 2020 who would then not be able to vote legally in 2024.

Do you not think there could be a "next time"? Did you ever think there would be a "last time"? I should probably ask you to be more specific on this one but I'll answer based on what I assume you meant. Sure there could be a next time. Just based on the idea that anything possible it would be foolish to discount that. I seriously doubt it could ever go down the way it did last time given what we know now. Everyone here obviously thinks there was some sort of institutional support for 1/6, and assuming that happened under the direction of the evil orange man I think it's safe to say that won't be happening again any time soon.
Now the important part: did I ever think there would be a last time? I, not being in charge of securing the Capitol or imagining potential scenarios to prevent, did not see that coming. I suppose if I sat down and tried to imagine what was possible I would have eventually gotten around to the risk of a large mob rushing the building at the same time and how easily it could be overrun. Did anyone else ever consider that? We know a little about the FBI informant stuff but I'm not getting into that conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, sometimes security gaps have to be exploited to be exposed. Think 9/11, or more recently in December what happened at the Longworth House Office Building.

1) January 6 was an aberration in the history of the nation. The Capitol building was last violently breached August 24, 1814, more than 200 years ago. It didn't happen during the Civil War, it didn't happen in WWII, or on 9/11. That, to me, is significant. We agree that what happened on 1/6 was significant.


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[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

I think there may be a basis for discussion in this, but I'm a bit skeptical. Let's try this:

2) It was a direct attack on our institutions of government (which, by definition, is insurrection, BTW), and intended to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. It was intended to be violent, and a significant number of participants prepared accordingly. It was coordinated in advance and anticipated to succeed. That has never happened in US history, either. If the intent was the disrupt, then I would go further than saying it was anticipated to succeed - I will say it DID succeed. But that disruption would NEVER be more than temporary, in this case only a few hours. I'm not really sure what people imagine the outcome being. Do you think they were going to drag Mike Pence out to the steps, conduct a mock trial, and then hang him on live TV? Let me tell you what would have happened. A dipshit wearing a viking hat would have walked through the door ushering Mike Pence by the arm. Then, for the world to see, the gentleman wearing the viking hat would maybe see a muzzle flash and his head would explode in a pink mist. The disruption was never going to be anything other than temporary and no matter what they did on 1/6 Joe Biden would be president 14 days later.

3) It is being excused and minimized not only by participants, but by a major portion of a major party and fellow travelers. Those that minimize it are not friends of the nation or of our democratic institutions, and do not have the best interests of the nation at heart. So, if Bob says what happened on 1/6 was horrible. A stain on our country, something that should never have happened and we should all hope never happens again. Then Susie says "yep, you're right Bob that was really awful." Then Bob says "I know right! It was as bad as 9/11. The worst attack on democracy in the history of humanity!" If Susie replies, "well Bob it was bad but maybe not that bad" she is not minimizing it, she is disagreeing with Bob's opinion of its severity. Now if there is anyone saying what happened was no big deal then let's get their names out there. And the false flag stuff is obviously bullshit.

We aren't going to agree on this, I get that. I know the website I'm on and the lean isn't exactly hard to detect. You seem like a smart person so I am hoping you can at least admit there is a small amount of politics being played here. If I were the democrats I'd use the hell out of 1/6. If Trump runs again the democrat campaign commercials are easy..you just run 30 seconds of footage of 1/6 and play audio of Trump making bullshit claims about the election.
Basically all I'm saying is 1/6 was bad but not as bad as some make it out to be, and I'm not going to ignore the politics being played.

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