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I thought that this country was about freedom.Navy Pride said:I don't care how great the minds are......Like I said if you volunteerily don't vote then just shut up...........Voting is what this country is supposed to be about........
Busta said:I thought that this country was about freedom.
Why must I be silent? Why can't I protest? Why can't I contact my Rep. about an issue? Why can't I sign a petition? Why can't I exchange ideas with others?
Now focus like a laser beam: Pinpoint exactly where and how you establish casting a vote as a requirement to exercise the first amendment.
Source your answer.
Navy Pride said:You don't have a rep..you did not vote......
You are not a registered voter so your signature would be void on a petition......
If you can't take the time to vote who would want to hear your whinning?
A vote is a very precious commodity my friend........Think about it.............
Navy Pride said:I don't care how great the minds are......Like I said if you volunteerily don't vote then just shut up...........Voting is what this country is supposed to be about........
As far as people that are to young to vote that is the law and they are not voting volunteerily...........huge difference.......
Navy Pride said:You don't have a rep..you did not vote......
You are not a registered voter so your signature would be void on a petition......
If you can't take the time to vote who would want to hear your whinning?
A vote is a very precious commodity my friend........Think about it.............
Then they forfit their right to bitch about the system if they are not going ot participate in it.Stace said:Some people feel that not voting is making just as much of a statement as going to the polls would.
Since voting ISN'T mandatory, why should these people have to shut up? They're still covered under the First Amendment.
jamesrage said:Then they forfit their right to bitch about the system if they are not going ot participate in it.
How can you bitch about politics,taxes,judicial nominations, and so on if you did not participate in the voting process?It amazes how many people bitch about these things but they do not participate or some people only participate once every fours years to elect a president but hardly vote in any local elections.
Stace said:Who said anything about bitching? Not me....You can still have an opinion on political issues even if you don't vote. Having an opinion does not equal bitching.
jamesrage said:It is absurd to complain/bitch about something that you had a oportunity to help change but refused to do so.
http://bitching.urbanup.com/458631
http://bitching.urbanup.com/166930
dictionary.com said:v. Slang bitched, bitch·ing, bitch·es
v. intr.
To complain; grumble.
Stace said:And again....having an opinion about something is not the same as bitching.
See, the word opinion isn't there at all.
jamesrage said:
dictionary.com said:Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
1 a : a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a formal expression of a judgment or appraisal by an expert —see also opinion testimony at TESTIMONY —compare FACT
2 a : advice or evaluation regarding the legal issues involved in a situation given by an attorney to a client <an opinion of title> called also legal opinion —see also opinion letter at LETTER 1 b : an advisory opinion issued by an authorized public official (as an attorney general) or a recognized body (as the American Bar Association)
3 a : the formal written expression by a court or judge of the reasons and principles of law upon which the decision in a case is based
Stace said:Hmm...still don't see the word complain in there. Opinions CAN be positive, ya know.
jamesrage said:How do you think Bush is handling the war in Iraq and Afganistan?
Stace said:Quite frankly, I think he's doing a crappy job. But see, that's my opinion. There are some people that think he's doing a great job, and that's their opinion. And with that, you are covering both sides of the spectrum.
jamesrage said:What you just expressed was a complaint.
complain
1 : to express grief, pain, or discontent
2 : to make a formal accusation or charge
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=discontent&x=10&y=25
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/grief
dictionary.com said:Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: &-'pin-y&n
Function: noun
1 a : a belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a formal expression of a judgment or appraisal by an expert —see also opinion testimony at TESTIMONY —compare FACT
2 a : advice or evaluation regarding the legal issues involved in a situation given by an attorney to a client <an opinion of title> called also legal opinion —see also opinion letter at LETTER 1 b : an advisory opinion issued by an authorized public official (as an attorney general) or a recognized body (as the American Bar Association)
3 a : the formal written expression by a court or judge of the reasons and principles of law upon which the decision in a case is based
Which that is your complaint.Stace said:No, let's try this again:
I believe that Bush is doing a crappy job.
It is my opinion that if I had said I think Bush is doing a great job, you would have had nothing more to say on the matter.
jamesrage said:Which that is your complaint.
It would not be complaining and therefore it would not be bitching.Because it is the opposite of complain.
The point me and others are trying to make is how are you going to complain about a problem when you have every oportunity to fix it or try to fix the problem.
AlbqOwl said:Our constitution prevents any vote that would prohibit have nots from becoming haves.
Stace said:And the point I'm trying to make is that not everyone that has an opinion on an issue is complainging that there is something wrong with that issue. I don't like Bush; I did my part by voting against him in '04 (I wasn't quite old enough to vote in '00).
Since I was never a NCO, I can not make an opinion on that.Although I do find it hard to beleave that troops in Iraq were able to vote but not soldiers attending pldc.My husband doesn't like Bush, but he couldn't vote because he was in PLDC. Does that make his opinion any less valuable? No.
Busta said:In context, I was only referring to the Presidential election from which I abstained, and no other.
What instrumint establishes this idea that the self evident right to free speech must be earned? Does not "equal" mien "reason", and not "voted"? Do my tax dollars mien nothing? Does my citizenship mien nothing?
Is not the idea that someone who does not vote on a given issue, thus looses their right to speak on said issue in the future, synonymous with the idea of second class citizens?
It has been established in America that some people are more equal then others ("Hate Crime" legislation), are you now in favor of some people being less-equal then others?
Surly this is not so, yet your post insinuates otherwise.
What source of morality inspires you to believe that when I exercise my Constitutional right to not vote, that I have somehow given up my moral authority? Is not "moral authority" self evident, showing itself through the words and deeds of one's life? Is not one such piece of self-evidence my telling the truth? "I do not support either candidate."
I must now lie at the voting booth by falsely showing support for a given candidate in order to be seen as having "moral authority"?
Exactly what kind of oxymoron is that; that I must lie in order to be seen with moral authority?; a contradiction in terms?; an adjective–noun?
Does not that lie divorce me from the very moral authority which you claim I would be giving up?
What sort of symbol is this opinion of yours?
Aside from the fact that the only election that I did not vote in was the last Presidential election......saying nothing for my state reps. or local government.....Navy Pride said:You don't have a rep..you did not vote......
You are not a registered voter so your signature would be void on a petition......
If you can't take the time to vote who would want to hear your whinning?
A vote is a very precious commodity my friend........Think about it.............
*Ahem*AlbqOwl said:If you will read my post in its full context you will see that I was referring to moral authority, not legal authority. There is a difference, and I know you know what the difference is.
Busta said:.....What source of morality inspires you to believe that when I exercise my Constitutional right to not vote, that I have somehow given up my moral authority? Is not "moral authority" self evident, showing itself through the words and deeds of one's life? Is not one such piece of self-evidence my telling the truth? "I do not support either candidate."
I must now lie at the voting booth by falsely showing support for a given candidate in order to be seen as having "moral authority"?
Exactly what kind of oxymoron is that; that I must lie in order to be seen with moral authority?; a contradiction in terms?; an adjective–noun?
Does not that lie divorce me from the very moral authority which you claim I would be giving up?
What sort of symbol is this opinion of yours?
Busta said:*Ahem*
If you would read my post in it's full context, you will see that I did address moral authority.
The legal aspect comes into play because this thread is discussing
"Should voting be Mandatory?" As in legally mandatory.
In addition to not answering any of my questions, you and Navy have yet to source the foundation of your personal conclusions.
Do you believe, like Navy, that the first Amendment should not apply to me when I do not vote because my not lieing at the voting booth negates my "reputation"?
If so, that's fine. Let's explore that.
What instrumint establishes "reputation"? How is it legally defined? What are it's attributes? How is "reputation" taken from the Constitution?
Having an opinion is one thing, but since we are discussing potential legislation, "because I say so" holds no water. You must reinforce yourself with law.
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