• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Please read. MLK Day.

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
Please read, Dems or Republicans, it doesn't matter. I think this is very important:

Today is a very important day. It is the observation, of the birth of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. MLK was probally the most influencial leader of our time. He gave african-americans a voice and a way to fight. He is much more than a person. He was the figure head for the whole civil rights movement. There was other important people: Rosa Parks, W.E.B. Dubois, Malcolm X. But, MLK was the most successful. He used the teachings of Jesus and Ghandi to accomplish his goals.

Anyways, back when i was in high school (which was last year) I was in chorus class. Don't laugh. Last year we went to Alanta Ga. for five days. While there, we got a chance to visit his old church (which is now a museum), look at his eternal flame, and go to a newer church across the street, which had the same name as the old one. At the end of the church service my choir(which is about 90% black) was able to go up and sing with the churches chior. I didn't mention that the day was palm sunday and the anniversary of MLKs death, 40 yrs. i think. That was one of the most touching experiences of my life. To be where he preached gave me a bone-chilling feeling.

So today, celebrate. A good way to celebrate is to try to see people for the content of their character and not for the color of their skin. I know that you are thinking that you already do that but you don't. I try, but, I see color. Race is not important,but we make it important, when you see a person of color you unknowingly make judgements. It is time to try hard to not make those judgements. MLK had a dream that we can do this. We need to remember the past, where we have been. It was not that long ago when african-americans didn't have the same rights as whites. Only a couple hundred years ago, we didn't even consider them to be humans. Think about that. We must also remember where we are going and that we all have the same purpose. African-Americans have shown that they are extremly capable of succeding, when given a chance. All americans must must learn to move forward, together. Put our differences aside. At least for this one day. I know that everyone is happy that they got work or school off, but take five minutes to think about what i've said.

So, Happy Martin Luther King Day.

P.S.: I hope everyone will respond to this post and tell me what they think. Thank you. ;-)
 
Last edited:

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
Come on people. I want feed back. Do you agree? Disagree? Am I an idiot? What do you think of MLK? Has his "Dream" been accomplished? Will it ever be? What can we do to make his dream come true? Is racism a problem today, or am I dwelling on the past?

This issue is very important to me, so I want to know what people think. bipartisan, I don't care what you say.
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,957
Reaction score
6,071
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I am guilty of not noticing what yesterday was.

Yesterday, was family day. We went downtown to the aquarium and natural history musem. When we go there, we noticed there were marching bands and a very huge crowd. It took us a few moments before we noticed what was going on.

My wife and I had a quick chat about MLK. He was indeed one of the greatest leaders of our history. He did a great deed for our country. It is truely sad that folks (ahem Jessie Jackson) rides on the coat tails of that wonderful man and calls it "justice".

Race is not important,but we make it important, when you see a person of color you unknowingly make judgements. It is time to try hard to not make those judgements.

Absolutely!!
Dr King was not just refering to blacks. The only time I see color is when I see an interracial couple. Guilty as charged. I have no issues with ANY race. I try not to make judgements, but often I wonder why they are together. Is it arrogance or true love? It's not really any of my business (nor do I make it mine), but I do ponder.

I am an anglo-saxon and damned proud of it. Whatever race you are - you should be damned proud of it as well.
 

mixedmedia

iniquitably employed
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
373
Location
Naples, FL
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
I hope that everyone will take the time to read this from beginning to end. It is well worth it and the least we can do. Consider it an exercise in patriotism taught by one of our country's few legendary heroes.

http://yonip.com/main/peace/vietnam.html

Ok, so I move it here.

pwo, yes Martin Luther King did a lot more than protest the Vietnam War, but that does not mean his words concerning the war are invalid. In fact they are just as relevant today, obviously. I submitted this speech because it is lesser known and shows him not only to be a committed pacifist, but also a revolutionary and somewhat of a prophet.

I don't want to see the image of this important American figure, one of our only legendary 20th century heroes, diluted by saccharine patriotism or nostalgia. He was a man committed to non-violence and his views on America and what she needs to be fully realized were anti-establishment, revolutionary theories.

I hope you did read the whole speech and were able to reflect on its meaning for our time.

Thanks, too, for responding to my post!
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,957
Reaction score
6,071
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]The only change came from America as we increased our troop commitments in support of governments which were singularly corrupt, inept and without popular support. All the while the people read our leaflets and received regular promises of peace and democracy -- and land reform. Now they languish under our bombs and consider us -- not their fellow Vietnamese -- the real enemy. They move sadly and apathetically as we herd them off the land of their fathers into concentration camps where minimal social needs are rarely met. They know they must move or be destroyed by our bombs. So they go -- primarily women and children and the aged.


I wonder, in retrospect, that if we KNEW that 3 MILLION (yes million) Cambodians would die because of the resultant action of leaving Viet Nam - would they still think we the enemy for staying as long as we did?

Which is worse... 3 million deaths or the poor in our country?

Purhaps, we have the forsite to see that if Sadam were to continue it would have been significant compaired to the devistation of leaving Viet Nam.

[/font][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]So far we may have killed a million of them -- mostly children.


Unfortunatly, it appears as though Dr King was caught in the media swirl as well. He doesn't mention that they were starving before we got there as well.

He was a man of the cloth and supposed to declare wars as inhumain.

[/font][font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]A genuine revolution of values means in the final analysis that our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies.


Absolutely. What do we do if countries do not and kill one another? We have the burden on our hands to rid the world of such devisation, but when we act we get ostracised for doing so.
[/font]
 

mixedmedia

iniquitably employed
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
373
Location
Naples, FL
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
vauge said:
I wonder, in retrospect, that if we KNEW that 3 MILLION (yes million) Cambodians would die because of the resultant action of leaving Viet Nam - would they still think we the enemy for staying as long as we did?

Which is worse... 3 million deaths or the poor in our country?

Purhaps, we have the forsite to see that if Sadam were to continue it would have been significant compaired to the devistation of leaving Viet Nam.
First of all, I believe the number of Cambodians killed during the Khmer Rouge hovers around 1 1/2 million people. Not that it makes any difference morally, but it's always good to have the numbers reflect the facts.

I fail to see how genocide in Cambodia makes the Vietnam War a just one. Perhaps if anti-American sentiment were not so high in Southeast Asia due to the war in Vietnam, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge would not have had the popular backing of Cambodians in the early days of his regime. Perhaps our involvement in Vietnam was the CAUSE of Pol Pot's popularity at that time, thus ultimately responsible for the genocide of the Cambodian people. Pol Pot and his party had been active in Cambodia since the '50s yet it was not until we had been in Vietnam for nearly 10 years before his became a populist movement. Maybe, just maybe, our ways of "liberating people" can be as harmful to those we are trying to save as what we are attempting to save them from.

From what I have learned about Saddam Hussein since his "toppling" he was more interested, in his latter days, in writing romance novels than pursuing genocide. Perhaps we didn't know that at the time, funny that, but what we did know for certain is that Iraq has the 3rd largest known oil resources in the world even though only 10% of the country has been explored. Opinions vary on the possible bounty of those unexplored reserves, but most agree that it is likely very significant, perhaps even enough to usurp Saudi Arabia as the world's largest.



vauge said:
Unfortunatly, it appears as though Dr King was caught in the media swirl as well. He doesn't mention that they were starving before we got there as well
Martin Luther King was caught in a "media swirl" yet your feet are firmly planted on solid ground? So incredible the political two-step that goes on on the right. It is not politically correct to disagree with Martin Luther King because his efforts & accomplishments have now been established as integrally important to the American ethic, so instead, you cherry pick what he stood for and disregard what you don't currently agree with as misguided liberalism. Unbelievable.

And people are starving in every corner of the globe. Why not bring them all food instead of waging war "on the behalf" of one?


vauge said:
He was a man of the cloth and supposed to declare wars as inhumain.
That's because they are inhumane. So our spiritual leaders are not intended to have any real influence on the human spirit? On our actions? On our beliefs?

On the brighter side, using this statement as a rule, it's good to see that warmongering Christians such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson do not qualify as "men of the cloth."



vauge said:
Absolutely. What do we do if countries do not and kill one another? We have the burden on our hands to rid the world of such devisation, but when we act we get ostracised for doing so.
[/font][/font]
We do not have the burden on our hands to make war with evil. The burden we have is to show the world that there is ANOTHER WAY. That is the challenge put before Americans. That is the challenge of democracy, our experiment in freedom and the quest for the rights of humanity. It is the challenge put before the world, and if there is a God I would imagine he is tired of seeing men replay same bad movie over and over throughout history.

And we get ostracized when we choose to wage war for questionable reasons and in a questionable manner. Our self-serving, reactionary efforts to combat Communism in the world resulted in unjust wars and our bedding down with tyrants not only in Asia, but in Latin America as well. Not to mention the arming of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban.

Why is it that the right views all our military actions as right and just but actions designed to promote non-violence and social justice as largely misguided and wrong?
 

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
No one truly knows what MLK would think of the war in Iraq. He was definatly agaist war, but he would also understand stopping the brutality of Saddam. There is no doubt that america would be better off with him. This would allow MLK to move on to new problems. Helping tsunami victims, poverty in the world, genocide in somalia, and yes oppresion in Iraq. Maybe he would not agree to go war. But he would definatly try to help.

To vauge:
That is so true. We do see color. The other day, I saw the Vikings/Eagles football game. Insteed, of seeing two good quaterbacks. I saw two good black quaterbacks. Its weird. We don't notice any other features. Just color. In a speach yesterday, Colin Powell was talking about his military experience. He said that someone referred to him as the best black lieutenant. He would rather be known as the best lieutenat period. People still make comments like that. Maya Angeliou is the best black poet, Richard Pryor was the best black comedian, Aretha Franklin is the best black singer, and so on. Why do we have to include color.

Also, has anyone heard what Bill Cosby has been saying about African Americans today? Is he right?
 

mixedmedia

iniquitably employed
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
6,823
Reaction score
373
Location
Naples, FL
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
pwo said:
No one truly knows what MLK would think of the war in Iraq. He was definatly agaist war, but he would also understand stopping the brutality of Saddam. There is no doubt that america would be better off with him. This would allow MLK to move on to new problems. Helping tsunami victims, poverty in the world, genocide in somalia, and yes oppresion in Iraq. Maybe he would not agree to go war. But he would definatly try to help.
Of course he would want to help and of course he would have been against the war. Conservatives have already tried to profile our country's founders as bible thumpers and conformists but keep your hands off MLK. Face it, if he were around today, the right would revile him.

pwo said:
Why do we have to include color.
We DON'T.

pwo said:
Also, has anyone heard what Bill Cosby has been saying about African Americans today? Is he right?
Bill Cosby's heart is in the right place and he wants to help. That I believe. Only I don't see his advice as going to the heart of the problems with our youth today. Black or white. Still, he does care and is trying to make a difference. Fortunately for him, he is a celebrity who speaks to the beliefs of the right wing so he is spared the labels our other celebrity friends are branded with for doing the same thing.
Yeah, that good ole liberal media....what would we progressives do without them.
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
11,957
Reaction score
6,071
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Martin Luther King was caught in a "media swirl" yet your feet are firmly planted on solid ground? So incredible the political two-step that goes on on the right. It is not politically correct to disagree with Martin Luther King because his efforts & accomplishments have now been established as integrally important to the American ethic, so instead, you cherry pick what he stood for and disregard what you don't currently agree with as misguided liberalism. Unbelievable.
MLK was a good man that stood for a wonderful cause. That does not mean that he was perfect. Nor does it mean that I have to agree with his every utterance or political views. I could careless if that is politically correct or not.

That is so true. We do see color. The other day, I saw the Vikings/Eagles football game. Insteed, of seeing two good quaterbacks. I saw two good black quaterbacks. Its weird. We don't notice any other features. Just color. In a speach yesterday, Colin Powell was talking about his military experience. He said that someone referred to him as the best black lieutenant. He would rather be known as the best lieutenat period. People still make comments like that. Maya Angeliou is the best black poet, Richard Pryor was the best black comedian, Aretha Franklin is the best black singer, and so on. Why do we have to include color.
The other day, I was refering to a co-worker to another co-worker. I was said his name. The other guy didn't know him. I then said that he was a top notch guy and said a few details about him. Not once did I mention the color of his skin. The other gentleman that I was talking to..ask "oh, the black guy? Why didn't you say that?". It was not ment as a derogatory question. After he said it... I said "oh is that significant?".
 

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
We DON'T.
Mixedmedia

In a perfect world, yes. Are you sure?
Don't speak for conservatives and say that we would revile him. You're stereotyping us into none caring racists. Why would hate a man of God who had done so much for the country.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
135
Reaction score
3
Location
Virginia
I know it's long past the celebration by now, but I would just like to add my two cents. MLK was a great man who changed America in a profound way and for the better. My father was lucky to see him speak at the March on Washington and participate in the last leg of the Selma to Montgomery March.
 

pwo

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
205
Reaction score
1
Location
Illinois
Thanks for your two cents. I know that everyone that met him was deeply influenced.
 
Top Bottom