please define the reason..... (1 Viewer)

[Caine]

While I disagree that was not what the OP asked.




Again not the subject of thread, the OP said the reasons were not given and that he still didn't know what they were. The reasons were clearly given.



I know what I have posted of what we have found remains unrefuted and it was plenty and we discover more and more each day.



Not a very convincing rebuttle of the reasons.

Well, I already stated, in a short sentence anyhow, that we remain there because we have to fix what we started with this quagmire, and that we have to finish what was our final few tasks in the original plan of installing a government and training a working military before we can leave them to deal with thier own problems.

 

[Stinger]

Well, I already stated, in a short sentence anyhow, that we remain there because we have to fix what we started with this quagmire, and that we have to finish what was our final few tasks in the original plan of installing a government and training a working military before we can leave them to deal with thier own problems.

And we are still in Germany and Japan and S. Korea. What is your point? We will be in Iraq for a LONG time I hope because Al Asad is a very strategic location and very useful for us. But as far as the OP and the question asked, all one has to do is read the sources I cited already. The reason we went in the first place where clearly laid out.

 

[Stinger]

For tecoyah: What no comment about the reasons we went to war? I gave you a very good list from DEMOCRATS. Are we to assume that you now know?

 

[tecoyah]

For tecoyah: What no comment about the reasons we went to war? I gave you a very good list from DEMOCRATS. Are we to assume that you now know?

Yes Stinger...you have clarified all my confusion...thanks

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by tecoyah
virtually EVERYTHING this administration does as justified and perfectly acceptable,

Originally posted by stinger
Hyperbole is easilty spotted here, you don't think we fall for that do you.

What the hell are you talking about? You can't fall after you fell. Your logic is already in the garbage. It can't get any lower. I noticed that instead of responding to his assertion that your just a company "yes man" when it comes to the current Administration, you tried to change the subject with your little smoke screen.

Why can't you face the music and just rebut the assertion? Maybe because the assertion is right on the money.

All you got to do to prove him wrong, is state the issues you have disagreed with the President on. Simple enough.

 

[Billo_Really]

There is absolutely no legal justification for what we did going into Iraq. There was no need to rush to war. Iraq was not a threat to anyone. UN inspectors were doing their job but had to leave prematurely because Bush just had to attack!

Pro-war supporters don't realize just how much of a joke they sound like when they come up with all these bullshit reasons.

 

[akyron]

After months of looking (and occasionally replying) to the endless threads devoted to this war.....I am left with a very simple question, which my own research cannot fully answer completely:


Regardless of what was said by the administration leading up to actual War (going by quoted, official comment only leads to further confusion)....why are we really there?

For the Hot chicks.

"Libya, Algeria, Death Valley and Iraq have some of the hottest temperatures on earth. "

 

[Hoot]

It doesn't really matter now why we went into Iraq...we are there. But, I believe the main reason for Iraq can be summed up in one word..."greed."

Even greed doesn't matter because the Iraq war is lost. Most Iraqi's want our troops out of their country...alot of Iraqi's probably view our troops as murderers and rapists?

Iraqi's are dieing on the streets everyday. Sunnis are dragged out of their cars in broad daylight and gunned down in public. What was a semi-stable theocracy in Iraq..of no real threat, has now become a breeding ground for terrorists and a cemetary for our troops and a bankruptcy notice for America.

Yes, we killed Zarqawi, but some theorize that Bin Laden, himself, ratted the guy out, so he could place one of his own in that position, so where has Zarqawi's death gotten us? Nowhere.

The Iraqi police force, designed to protect the Iraqi people, has been infiltrated by corrupt Shiite militias who engage in assassination, torture, rape, murder for hire, and bribery.

Now we have Israel flexing their muscle and bombing the hell out of a one year old fledgling democracy in Lebanon. If the U.S. actually cared about promoting democracy we would try to use our influence on Israel to show some restraint, because this fragile democracy in Lebanon is going down the tubes as the U.S. sits back and watches, and this Israeli offensive is doing nothing to aid our cause in Iraq. Please note...before you flame me, I support Israel's right to defend herself, but the Israeli actions are not helping our cause in the Middle East. We are closer then ever into bringing Iran and Syria into this war.

The whole Middle East is now a nightmare, with the possible beginnings of WWIII, and we have Bush's disastrous foreign policy to thank.

 

[Billo_Really]

The last people I want in the White House at the start of WWIII is Bush and Chaney!

 

[oldreliable67]

The whole Middle East is now a nightmare, with the possible beginnings of WWIII, and we have Bush's disastrous foreign policy to thank.

bin Laden, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran? They didn't have anything to do with it?

 

[akyron]

We are closer then ever into bringing Iran and Syria into this war.

The whole Middle East is now a nightmare, with the possible beginnings of WWIII, and we have Bush's disastrous foreign policy to thank.

Meh the area has been warring with each other and within itself for thousands of years. Blaming it on one guy now no matter how powerful is completely specious and discounts 99.9% of history.

 

[PeteEU]

Meh the area has been warring with each other and within itself for thousands of years. Blaming it on one guy now no matter how powerful is completely specious and discounts 99.9% of history.

and ignoring the impact that one guy/action/country has/had on the situation in the middle east is just as stupid.

Personally I blame the US politicans for about 33% of the bullshit happening in the middle east today. 33% is Isreals fault and the last 33% is the arabs own fault and stupidity.

as for going into Iraq... well people were asking the same question before the US went in and it is still to be answered.

 

[Stinger]

as for going into Iraq... well people were asking the same question before the US went in and it is still to be answered.

It was answered completely, debated in detailed and voted on in the UN and the US Congress. If you weren't paying attention that is your fault but all the transcripts and statements, such as I have already posted, are available to you online.

 

[Hoot]

We went into Iraq because Bush & Company told us that Saddam was in colusion with Al Qaeda...infering that Saddam helped attack us on 9/11. We went into Iraq because of Saddams wmd programs, of which there was nothing...at least this was what Bush & Co. told us.

 

[ProudAmerican]

We went into Iraq because Bush & Company told us that Saddam was in colusion with Al Qaeda...infering that Saddam helped attack us on 9/11. We went into Iraq because of Saddams wmd programs, of which there was nothing...at least this was what Bush & Co. told us.

and we are not fighting AL Queda in Iraq and have found numerous chemical weapons.

go figure!!!!

also, we were given many more reasons than that. but if you want to use the democratic talking points, go ahead.

 

[Stinger]

We went into Iraq because Bush & Company told us that Saddam was in colusion with Al Qaeda...

That he was supporting terrorism including Alqaeda and that was true.

infering that Saddam helped attack us on 9/11.

You inferred that not the adminstiration.

We went into Iraq because of Saddams wmd programs, of which there was nothing..

Not true and cited over and over to you.

.at least this was what Bush & Co. told us.

No that is what you told us Bush & Co. told us. What they actually said is very available and for the most part true.

 

[Iriemon]

Operation Iraqi Liberation. That was the first name the U.S. went with.:shock:

Does anyone remember during the lead up to the war, when Wolfowitz said that the War would essentially pay for itself using oil revenue?

Wolfowitz went in front of Congress on March 27, 2003.
-"There's a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be U.S. taxpayer money."

-"It starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We're dealing with a country that can finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

-"The oil revenues of that countrycould bring between $50 and $100 billion over the next two or three years."

But since Bush administration officials rarely testify under oath I guess it wasn't really perjury.:roll:

He must have gotten somebody's attention since he is now the president of the World Bank.

Sorry, back on topic: Anyone who says oil was not a factor is a true kool-aid drinker. Oil is the most important resource in modern times, and if many experts are correct, that oil recovery is or will be on the decline, why not make a move for it? That is what China seems to be doing. Also, another aspect of invasion was to establish a future military role in the region. Now that we are right next door to Iran, we can establish a pro-west leadership, just like when we set up the Shah. Finally, protection of Israel.

Edit: Quotes from: Armed Madhouse. Greg Palast. 2006.

Yep. If Iraq did not have one of the world's largest oil reserves, this administration would never have bothered with it, WMDs or no.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Yep. If Iraq did not have one of the world's largest oil reserves, this administration would never have bothered with it, WMDs or no.

if I were to concede that is a fact, which neither of us can prove......there wouldnt be a damn thing wrong with it, since you and I both need that oil daily.

let me know when you stop using oil. only then will it NOT be hypocritical of you to condemn the government.

 

[Iriemon]

if I were to concede that is a fact, which neither of us can prove......there wouldnt be a damn thing wrong with it, since you and I both need that oil daily.

let me know when you stop using oil. only then will it NOT be hypocritical of you to condemn the government.

Ha ha. The fact that our oil somehow got under their land is a completely legitimate reason to start a war. Sure thing, Hirohito.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Ha ha. The fact that our oil somehow got under their land is a completely legitimate reason to start a war. Sure thing, Hirohito.

do you use the very oil daily that you are condemning the US government for?

simple question.

 

[Iriemon]

do you use the very oil daily that you are condemning the US government for?

simple question.

It's not a simple question, it's a loaded question. I don't condemn the US government for the fact that I use oil daily. Nor do I condemn the US government for the fact of oil. I would condemn the Bush administration for starting a war because of oil.

 

[ProudAmerican]

It's not a simple question, it's a loaded question. I don't condemn the US government for the fact that I use oil daily. Nor do I condemn the US government for the fact of oil. I would condemn the Bush administration for starting a war because of oil.

its a VERY SIMPLE question, and one you refuse to answer because of a hypocritical nature.

I will gladly, easily, and freely answer the same question without tapdancing around it.

I pay for gas daily that most likely comes from all areas of the middle east. I realize that if the middle east were allowed to dictate the use of that oil on their terms, I would most likely be walking everywhere I go. I dont want that, so I gladly give my government free reign to do whatever is necessary to keep that oil flowing.

You simply dont want to admit the same, though you clearly agree with me....unless of course you make sure the gasoline you buy comes from oil obtained in texas, or south america.

if you do that, then my apologies for the hypocrisy statement. somehow im fairly confident im correct though.

 

[Iriemon]

its a VERY SIMPLE question, and one you refuse to answer because of a hypocritical nature.

I will gladly, easily, and freely answer the same question without tapdancing around it.

I pay for gas daily that most likely comes from all areas of the middle east. I realize that if the middle east were allowed to dictate the use of that oil on their terms, I would most likely be walking everywhere I go. I dont want that, so I gladly give my government free reign to do whatever is necessary to keep that oil flowing.

You simply dont want to admit the same, though you clearly agree with me....unless of course you make sure the gasoline you buy comes from oil obtained in texas, or south america.

if you do that, then my apologies for the hypocrisy statement. somehow im fairly confident im correct though.

Hypocracy? LOL! Because I use gas therefore I'm a "hypocrite" if I believe one nation does not have the right to invade another just because it has a resource it needs?

In your view, a nation has free reign to invade another to keep its resources flowing? Therefore Japan legitimately attacked the US, because the US had interfere with Japan's access to oil, right?

 

[faithful_servant]

Text of the UN resolution regarding Iraq:

Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,

Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully,

Recognizing the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,

Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,

Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area,

Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,

Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,

Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council's repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people,

Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq,

Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein,

Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance,

Recalling that the effective operation of UNMOVIC, as the successor organization to the Special Commission, and the IAEA is essential for the implementation of resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions,

Noting the letter dated 16 September 2002 from the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq addressed to the Secretary General is a necessary first step toward rectifying Iraq's continued failure to comply with relevant Council resolutions,

Noting further the letter dated 8 October 2002 from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq laying out the practical arrangements, as a follow-up to their meeting in Vienna, that are prerequisites for the resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA, and expressing the gravest concern at the continued failure by the Government of Iraq to provide confirmation of the arrangements as laid out in that letter,

Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States,

Commending the Secretary General and members of the League of Arab States and its Secretary General for their efforts in this regard,

Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions,

Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,

1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq's failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991);

2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council;

3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material;

4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and or 12 below;

 

[faithful_servant]

coninued...

5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC's or the IAEA's choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter;

6. Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the letter shall be binding upon Iraq;

7. Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq , to facilitate their work in Iraq:

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and experienced experts available;

-- All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities, corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA ;

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution 1154 (1998);

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq's chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities;

-- Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient UN security guards;

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected;

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles;

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and

-- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment, materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage;

8. Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution;

9. Requests the Secretary General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA;

10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA;

11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;

12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;

13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;

14. Decides to remain seized of the matter.