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I don't know what the stats are on non-ID carrying citizens but would bet it would cost more than a million U.S.D. this is the federal government we are talking about. Still, if a person wants to do a basic transaction it often requires some form of photo ID so it's just not likely that most adults don't have them already. I am positive that the issue is raised to protect "ghost voting", that's the best way I can describe someone not having the actual right to the vote casting it. I'm still on board with adopting the ink finger in use in the ME, it seems to be pretty effective.I'd be willing to bet that very few such people actually exist, and fewer still vote. The cost to the state/federal government to provide IDs would be miniscule. If it cost a million bucks, that's 33 cents per person. I think we can afford that.
What can I buy for 33 cents nowadays?
Again, warriors of the right who advocate for these so called 'reforms' ...where is the mountain of evidence proving voter fraud is a problem?...
Again, warriors of the right who advocate for these so called 'reforms' ...where is the mountain of evidence proving voter fraud is a problem?
This is a phony soluton in search of a problem.
In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden*tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. - The Cutting Edge News
Charges were made in at least three federal elections in California 3 4 and twice in Florida5 that voting by ineligible aliens may have determined the outcome of the election. For instance:
In Florida, election observers say a “sizable number” of Florida votes in the 2000 election may have been cast by ineligible felons, illegal immigrants, and non-citizens. 6
In California, former Republican Rep. Robert K. Dornan was defeated by Democrat Loretta Sanchez by 984 votes in the 1996 election. State officials found that at least 300 votes were cast illegally by non-citizens.7 Investigation of the allegations established that aliens had illegally voted in those elections, but not in sufficient numbers to have changed the result. Authorities appear not to have prosecuted any of the aliens who voted illegally. - FAIR: Non-Citizen Voting in Federal Elections
» #OccupyMilwaukee Protester May Have Voted Illegally in Wisconsin - Big Government
Dead people can't vote - they need to have their names removed. Felons can't vote - they need to have their names removed. If not, then they can vote - and the law can not be enforced and no conviction.
3%? In Florida?
That could have been enough to have gotten Bush elected.
Yes it could. Photo id's would go a long way in helping this situation.
PS It is well known that the Cuban community did not support the Democrats at the time due to the Illias Gonzalez raid under Clinton.
OMG! If we had a photo ID requirement back in 2000, we might not have had to survive the Bush administration.
But, hold on a minute.... we would have had a Gore Administration instead.
Holy crap, what a choice.
In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden*tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. - The Cutting Edge News
Charges were made in at least three federal elections in California 3 4 and twice in Florida5 that voting by ineligible aliens may have determined the outcome of the election. For instance:
In Florida, election observers say a “sizable number” of Florida votes in the 2000 election may have been cast by ineligible felons, illegal immigrants, and non-citizens. 6
In California, former Republican Rep. Robert K. Dornan was defeated by Democrat Loretta Sanchez by 984 votes in the 1996 election. State officials found that at least 300 votes were cast illegally by non-citizens.7 Investigation of the allegations established that aliens had illegally voted in those elections, but not in sufficient numbers to have changed the result. Authorities appear not to have prosecuted any of the aliens who voted illegally. - FAIR: Non-Citizen Voting in Federal Elections
» #OccupyMilwaukee Protester May Have Voted Illegally in Wisconsin - Big Government
Dead people can't vote - they need to have their names removed. Felons can't vote - they need to have their names removed. If not, then they can vote - and the law can not be enforced and no conviction.
The obama administration also claims the US/Mexican border is secure.There is no evidence that voter fraud of this kind (showing up claiming to be someone you are not) is becoming even a minuscule threat to our voting system. Conservatives and Libertarians should agree that there should be no restrictions on people's fundamental rights (and which right is more fundamental than voting) unless there is some very good reason for it. Until it becomes apparent that voter fraud, and not political corruption, is the objective behind these laws, I wholly oppose them.
This is this - this isn't something else - this is this
You mean millions. Studies have shown that millions of Americans...genearlly the low income and elderly do not have the ID's that states are passing that are required to vote.Does anybody seriously believe the democrat party is actually concerned that a few voters without picture IDs will be denied ballot access?
Those stories do not cite a single conviction for even one lone individual for voter fraud. Not a single one.
The material you cited is based on speculation, conjecture and wishful thinking by losers of elections looking for a scapegoat for their defeats as in the Sanchez case.
Are there people who vote who should not be legally able to vote? I would suspect there are a very small number.
Are there people who commit voter fraud but get away with it? I would also suspect there are a very small number.
However, I can prove neither.
Before we go imposing burdens on a right which is mentioned in the US Constitution in no less than five different places, we better be darn sure there is a real and significant problem that does exist. And when we talk about the voting rights of well over 100 million people, an isolated case here or there does not achieve that level of significance requiring action which could cost honest voters their rights.
Those stories do not cite a single conviction for even one lone individual for voter fraud. Not a single one.
The material you cited is based on speculation, conjecture and wishful thinking by losers of elections looking for a scapegoat for their defeats as in the Sanchez case.
Are there people who vote who should not be legally able to vote? I would suspect there are a very small number.
Are there people who commit voter fraud but get away with it? I would also suspect there are a very small number.
However, I can prove neither.
Before we go imposing burdens on a right which is mentioned in the US Constitution in no less than five different places, we better be darn sure there is a real and significant problem that does exist. And when we talk about the voting rights of well over 100 million people, an isolated case here or there does not achieve that level of significance requiring action which could cost honest voters their rights.
No, they are not "a different thing".Empiraca,
please read this and learn so that you can avoid these sort of mistakes again.
False equivalence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Voter fraud is one thing. Border problems are a different thing. Like Robert DeNiro said in THE DEERHUNTER
Convictions are evidence someone got caught, you asked for "where is the mountain of evidence proving voter fraud is a problem?" which I supplied. If you would have been honest, Theplaydrive has posted that the 2 elections in 2002 and 2004 resulted in 70 convictions for fraud.
If you look at crime statistics the number of people charged vs convictions are very different. Just because someone did not get caught or convicted, does not erase a crime.
#1 Voting is not an enumerated right in the Constitution.
The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members.
No, they are not "a different thing".
The fact that voter fraud will be most prevalent among the illegal aliens who crossed the border and the fact that the current administration downplayed both with their rediculous claims, directly links them.
from Blackdog replying to my post
Suspicion of a crime does not equal a crime.
Accusation of a crime does not equal a crime.
Allegations of a crime does not equal a crime.
Playdrive shows 70 convictions (and where is that data please?)
out of what - 200 million votes? In your mind, that constitutes a problem that warrants this type of solution? That is absurd in the extreme.
Sp present us with number of people charged with the crime of voter fraud then if you feel that is the benchmark.
You are engaging in semantics, smoke and mirrors and a version of intellectual three card Montie that is over the line of absurdity. If the Constitution does indeed discuss the right to vote five times, how can there be no "right to vote" when it clearly is mentioned and discussed with the exact phrase "RIGHT TO VOTE"?
Evidence is what you asked for, convictions are only part of an entire process.
If you are that interested search the thread yourself.
The only thing I find absurd is that it happens and because you feel it does not happen on a larger scale it is not a problem. Yes lets talk about absurd.
Don't really have to. People have been caught, if it was only 1 person it would be just as illegal.
#1 Voting is not an enumerated right in the Constitution.
The Constitution contains many phrases, clauses, and amendments detailing ways people cannot be denied the right to vote. You cannot deny the right to vote because of race or gender. Citizens of Washington DC can vote for President; 18-year-olds can vote; you can vote even if you fail to pay a poll tax. The Constitution also requires that anyone who can vote for the "most numerous branch" of their state legislature can vote for House members and Senate members.
Actually without a conviction, there is no proof that voting fraud ever took place. There is no dead body. There is no safe broken open and empty. There is no burned shell of a building. There is no bashed in head. There is no visible sign of any crime taking place in any way, shape or form. The only way you can prove that voter fraud actually did take place is to show me convictions of that crime.
Sorry but one cannot find what does not exist. If you feel it does, step up and present it. I find NOTHING.
You must really be an obsessive authoritarian statist who is willing to use the most meager of evidence - in this case no evidence - to strip basic voting rights from people.
Thank you for admitting you are impotent to present anything.
Which Lew Rockwell column did you cut and past that from?
If the Constitution does not recognize voting rights, can you explain why it uses the phrase RIGHT TO VOTE in FIVE different places in that same document? You seem unable to offer an answer for that.
You have no point about courts upholding this. I am not arguing this from that angle and you somehow someway refuse to see that. I am saying that there is no need for this because nobody has demonstrated there is a problem.
Welfare has not a damn thing to do with this outside of some sort of strawman that exists in your own mind.
No, they are not "a different thing".
The fact that voter fraud will be most prevalent among the illegal aliens who crossed the border and the fact that the current administration downplayed both with their rediculous claims, directly links them.
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