Perception and Value

[Real Korimyr #9]

For once, I got an email forward that wasn't blatant nonsense.

snopes.com: Joshua Bell Plays in Subway

Violinist sets himself up in the Washington Metro playing the violin for passersby. Played for 45 minutes, and out of over a thousand pedestrians, only six stopped. Twenty nine people put money in his hat, for a total of $32.17.

The musician was Joshua Bell, and two nights before the subway performance he had played a sold out concert hall in Boston with ticket prices starting at $100. The violin he was playing was worth over three million dollars.

So much of what we think is valuable is only so because the context tells us that it is valuable; we think it's valuable only because we are told that it's valuable. And yet our entire society revolves around these concepts of value that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, illusions of the mind.

 

[Cephus]

For once, I got an email forward that wasn't blatant nonsense.

snopes.com: Joshua Bell Plays in Subway

Violinist sets himself up in the Washington Metro playing the violin for passersby. Played for 45 minutes, and out of over a thousand pedestrians, only six stopped. Twenty nine people put money in his hat, for a total of $32.17.

The musician was Joshua Bell, and two nights before the subway performance he had played a sold out concert hall in Boston with ticket prices starting at $100. The violin he was playing was worth over three million dollars.

So much of what we think is valuable is only so because the context tells us that it is valuable; we think it's valuable only because we are told that it's valuable. And yet our entire society revolves around these concepts of value that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, illusions of the mind.

The people who went to the performance are those who self-selected for being interested. They represented a tiny portion of the population (a few hundred out of the millions in the NYC area). In public, he was playing for the masses, only a very tiny percentage would have been interested in what he was doing. This has nothing to do with perception or value and everything to do with scattershot tactics. Do something that only interests a tiny percentage, that's all you'll get responding.

 

[Goshin]

For once, I got an email forward that wasn't blatant nonsense.

snopes.com: Joshua Bell Plays in Subway

Violinist sets himself up in the Washington Metro playing the violin for passersby. Played for 45 minutes, and out of over a thousand pedestrians, only six stopped. Twenty nine people put money in his hat, for a total of $32.17.

The musician was Joshua Bell, and two nights before the subway performance he had played a sold out concert hall in Boston with ticket prices starting at $100. The violin he was playing was worth over three million dollars.

So much of what we think is valuable is only so because the context tells us that it is valuable; we think it's valuable only because we are told that it's valuable. And yet our entire society revolves around these concepts of value that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, illusions of the mind.

Been explaining this to my son. I held up a dollar bill and said "What's this?"

He says, "Money."

I said "No. This is a piece of high-quality green paper, that has unfortunately already been written and doodled all over. That is it's intrinsic value: used paper. It only has value as money because many people believe it does. If most people stop believing that, it reverts to what it really is: used paper that isn't even very good TP. Worthless."

Lots of people stockpiling gold and silver against the possible economic collapse we might experience soon. This is not a bad idea, as gold and silver tend to retain some value in all but the worst situations, but ultimately the value of precious metals is limited; you can't eat them, wear them, put them in your fuel tank, or defend your family with them. Beans, clothing/personal hygeine stuff, fuel and bullets ought to come first, before worrying about gold and silver.

 

[rathi]

The particular experiment isn't valid for the reasons Cephus stated, but the concept itself is. A forgery of a painting so good it can't be detected by the naked eye is still worth far less than the original. Many brandname items exist solely to exploit the phenomenon. The synthetic vs mined diamonds battle is probably the most ridiculous example.

 

[scourge99]

So much of what we think is valuable is only so because the context tells us that it is valuable; we think it's valuable only because we are told that it's valuable.

Value is a subjective measure of worth. As a member of a society, its crucial to recognize how things are valued by individuals and by society as whole.

And yet our entire society revolves around these concepts of value that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, illusions of the mind.

The concept of "value" is a subjective "illusion" of the mind. Its part of what makes us human.

 

[DGomez]

For once, I got an email forward that wasn't blatant nonsense.
So much of what we think is valuable is only so because the context tells us that it is valuable; we think it's valuable only because we are told that it's valuable. And yet our entire society revolves around these concepts of value that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, illusions of the mind.

As Cephus already mentioned, much of this has to do with who is actually interested in the violin. Those who were probably stopped. To say that value is just an illusion of the mind assumes that everyone who didn't stop would have paid $100 to go see him play. Not so.

Plus, the value of the instrument is not really a case in point. I'm a violin teacher and no beginner/non-musician could tell the difference between a million dollar instrument one that only cost $100. That's like getting all uppity about someone not being able to tell that the wine was a 20 year old special reserve if they never drink wine.

 

[Geo Patric]

i would have stopped and listened, but i live on the other side of the value divide. i will stop and listen to any violinist busking on the street. i will stop and watch kids play in the street. i will stop and watch birds on a wire.

joshua bell is brilliant, too... wish he'd pull that stunt here.

geo.

 

[Geo Patric]

Value is a subjective measure of worth. As a member of a society, its crucial to recognize how things are valued by individuals and by society as whole.


The concept of "value" is a subjective "illusion" of the mind. Its part of what makes us human.

no, that is a painfully limited vision. the ability to ascribe value is not illusory nor is the value we ascribe. you and i do not value all the same things, nor those things we both value all in to the same degree, but we do value some things absolutely (water, food) and we do all have the same 'valuation' function, though we tune and train it differently.

and though our ability to detect degree of quality is developed, we must all have it or none could develop it. a valuation of order is innate - music is a form of order... all beauty is.

geo.

 

[scourge99]

the ability to ascribe value is not illusory

I didn't say the ability to ascribe value is illusory. I said value is subjective. Value is an "illusion" because it exists only in our minds and not in physical reality.

nor is the value we ascribe.

Its illusory in that it does not exist in physical reality.

but we do value some things absolutely (water, food)

What does it mean to value something "absolutely"?

and we do all have the same 'valuation' function, though we tune and train it differently.

Sure, everyone has common physiology, brain make-up, etc which is why have commonalities when it comes to what we value.

 

[Geo Patric]

I didn't say the ability to ascribe value is illusory. I said value is subjective. Value is an "illusion" because it exists only in our minds and not in physical reality. . . What does it mean to value something "absolutely"?

no, it absolutely exists in physical reality (i will skip over the argument that our mind is somehow outside physical reality). i eat, eating sustains me, keeps me alive. that is the fundamental definition of value.

and we can value things absolutely or objectively, outside of its relationship to other things. i cannot value my relationship with you outside of what my relationship with you means to you - that is not an absolute valuation. i can value the flavor of an apple absolutely.

try this: the capacity for language is innate, built into the brain, actually constitutes a part of the brain (Broca's region). but... not English or chinese or any other language, but language itself.

our capacity to create affinities is part of our brain, it is what makes us so adaptable. some affinities themselves are part of our brain (a taste for salt) but we also have a capacity for 'affinities' itself. so, we can learn to like new things, we can learn to love new things. in a sense, we are born with 'addictions' - to salt, for instance. and we are born with 'addictiveness', the ability to become addicted to tobacco etc.

'valuation', too, is part of how our brain works. we could not survive without it. some things we value are universal - what constitutes an attractive face has common elements in all cultures, we all value the same thing. these valuations are not subjective. but the ability to acquire values is part of our brain too, so we can learn to value things differently and develop cultural and even wholly personal (subjective) valuations.

geo.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

For once, I got an email forward that wasn't blatant nonsense.

snopes.com: Joshua Bell Plays in Subway

Violinist sets himself up in the Washington Metro playing the violin for passersby. Played for 45 minutes, and out of over a thousand pedestrians, only six stopped. Twenty nine people put money in his hat, for a total of $32.17.

The musician was Joshua Bell, and two nights before the subway performance he had played a sold out concert hall in Boston with ticket prices starting at $100. The violin he was playing was worth over three million dollars.

So much of what we think is valuable is only so because the context tells us that it is valuable; we think it's valuable only because we are told that it's valuable. And yet our entire society revolves around these concepts of value that are nothing more than smoke and mirrors, illusions of the mind.

You can listen, appreciate and highly value something without stopping to listen or throw money in a hat. Some people were in a rush - others listened from across the tracks - others had no money to give.

*shrug*

I don't understand why value MUST equate with an exchange of monies.
Or why value MUST equate with someone having the time to stop what they're doing.

The premise of this article is illogical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOPu0_YWhw

On a personal note - I don't like this particular style of playing - rhumpus, trilled, prancing on the strings - none of that is appealing. It is noise to me - not coherent, inviting music. Actually - for being a violinist since I was 7 - I don't like the violin and how it's abused with his higher octaves. . .It's shrill resonance and pitched slurs make it painful to listen to - I always wished I played the viola instead.

So - that (which a lot of people feel) coupled with the unsoundly echo of an open station of that nature - it was probably downright obnoxious. Concert halls are designed to null resonance, mute the overtones and pacify the crossover. This is critical else one feels like they're listening to feedback rather than music.