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Pelosi won't budge on expiring Bush tax cuts

Conservative said:
My apology, LibLady as apparently someone thought this to be baiting, trolling, or a personal attack and reported it. I will try to keep that from happening in the future
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i did not report this.
 
Conservative said:
Define our needs and then put a dollar figure on it? You continue to buy what you are told so for the first time take the Federal Budget and put your numbers to it

I don't get it, what motivates people like you to continue to buy the rhetoric from liberals and ignore actual results and even your own finances. How about matching the spending to the revenue instead of vice versa?
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Maybe I recognize what my govt has done, and is doing for me. You see those things and think they are being done TO you.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
You made a very silly assertion about Republicans being criminal because they coveted wealth. Using Madoff as an example. So I showed you an example of wealth in politics. Should I call it "greed" in politics ? Or is it only greed with Republicans ? Should I cite John Kerry avoiding his yacht taxes ? And we can go back and forth with silly snapshot cases ?

Your argument was baseless.
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I don't support tax evasion, by anybody, . If I had my way, there would be a new law, one that criminalizes betrayal of the public trust. Politicians taking bribes, CEO's plundering their companies, and corruption of any form that the taxpayer ends up paying for, all should carry a minimum of 10 years in prison.
 
UtahBill said:
Maybe I recognize what my govt has done, and is doing for me. You see those things and think they are being done TO you.
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And what would that be? What is the role of the Federal and the State Govt. in your world? The current budget is approximately 3.8 trillion dollars today so let's see how your numbers add up.
 
I believe economists say the only predictor for a recovering economy is reduced government spending. Whether you tax higher or not does not seem to be related to economic recovery or increases in jobs.

IMO, when government spends less it encourages the private sector to spend more to meet demand. The less involved government is in meeting people's needs the more areas open to investment for private businesses. Taxing less does nothing to change the makeup of the market and thus has little effect, whereas spending less can dramatically change the makeup of the market and can have a great effect.
 
Conservative said:
And what would that be? What is the role of the Federal and the State Govt. in your world? The current budget is approximately 3.8 trillion dollars today so let's see how your numbers add up.
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Sorry, I won't take your bait. You are the one complaining, and the only thing you have to offer is lower taxes for the rich who supposedly are the only ones who create jobs. I doubt any Econ professor will agree with that. I don't mind paying taxes, I consider it patriotic. Yes, the funds get misused, and for that there should be criminal penalties. But neither you or I have the influence to make the changes needed.
So this is just a big exercise in futility....
 
UtahBill said:
Sorry, I won't take your bait. You are the one complaining, and the only thing you have to offer is lower taxes for the rich who supposedly are the only ones who create jobs. I doubt any Econ professor will agree with that. I don't mind paying taxes, I consider it patriotic. Yes, the funds get misused, and for that there should be criminal penalties. But neither you or I have the influence to make the changes needed.
So this is just a big exercise in futility....
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Nice diversion, never did I say that there should be only lower taxes for the rich, there should be lower taxes for ALL Taxpayers, not transfer of payments to those who don't pay taxes. The argument that taxes are an expense is bogus just like the argument that tax cuts cause deficits. Stop buying the rhetoric and think. American taxpayers keeping more of their money makes them less dependent on the govt, which means there isn't a need for a 3.8 trillion dollar budget and that scares liberals, not conservatives.
 
Conservative said:
Nice diversion, never did I say that there should be only lower taxes for the rich, there should be lower taxes for ALL Taxpayers, not transfer of payments to those who don't pay taxes. The argument that taxes are an expense is bogus just like the argument that tax cuts cause deficits. Stop buying the rhetoric and think. American taxpayers keeping more of their money makes them less dependent on the govt, which means there isn't a need for a 3.8 trillion dollar budget and that scares liberals, not conservatives.
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if you could, for once, make it about actual issues and facts, instead of about liberals and so called conservatives, you might actually get someone to discuss this with you. but it's clear YOU buy what you are spoon fed, and that means you discount anything a liberal has to say. it's tough to open your mind to ideas when it's already full to the brim with talking points. which you have repeated, ad naseum, all day long.
 
liblady said:
if you could, for once, make it about actual issues and facts, instead of about liberals and so called conservatives, you might actually get someone to discuss this with you. but it's clear YOU buy what you are spoon fed, and that means you discount anything a liberal has to say. it's tough to open your mind to ideas when it's already full to the brim with talking points. which you have repeated, ad naseum, all day long.
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liblady, I buy the facts, actual data that you want to ignore. I learned a long time ago to trust but verify. Here is some homework for you, what are the four components of GDP and what percentage of GDP goes to each component. Then tell me how taxes affect those components?

I do discount most of what is said by liberals because it is all based upon emotion lacking facts. There are a couple other sites that offer data, factual data as to what actually happened, not projections. BEA.gov will give you the GDP components and their numbers. That site will also give you revenue and expenses for all prior years so you can see tax revenue by year. I challenge you to go to those sites, learn what data is there, and then verify that data with the rhetoric your liberal ideology tells you? Could be interesting.
 
Conservative said:
liblady, I buy the facts, actual data that you want to ignore. I learned a long time ago to trust but verify. Here is some homework for you, what are the four components of GDP and what percentage of GDP goes to each component. Then tell me how taxes affect those components?

I do discount most of what is said by liberals because it is all based upon emotion lacking facts. There are a couple other sites that offer data, factual data as to what actually happened, not projections. BEA.gov will give you the GDP components and their numbers. That site will also give you revenue and expenses for all prior years so you can see tax revenue by year. I challenge you to go to those sites, learn what data is there, and then verify that data with the rhetoric your liberal ideology tells you? Could be interesting.
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again with the smearing of liberals. no thanks.
 
liblady said:
if you could, for once, make it about actual issues and facts, instead of about liberals and so called conservatives, you might actually get someone to discuss this with you. but it's clear YOU buy what you are spoon fed, and that means you discount anything a liberal has to say. it's tough to open your mind to ideas when it's already full to the brim with talking points. which you have repeated, ad naseum, all day long.
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A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....Simon and Garfunkel, from their song, "the Boxer ". Ever wonder how some of the posters here make a living while spending so much time sharing their knowledge? My excuse is, I am retired and the wife and I are bringing in more money now than we did while working...so I can afford to waste time here.
Best part of the "job" of being retired, no matter how poorly I do the job, I cannot be fired. But I do have to answer to my "co-worker", my domestic supervisor of 43 years.
 
UtahBill said:
A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....Simon and Garfunkel, from their song, "the Boxer ". Ever wonder how some of the posters here make a living while spending so much time sharing their knowledge? My excuse is, I am retired and the wife and I are bringing in more money now than we did while working...so I can afford to waste time here.
Best part of the "job" of being retired, no matter how poorly I do the job, I cannot be fired. But I do have to answer to my "co-worker", my domestic supervisor of 43 years.
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I understand, I retired 6 years ago at age 57 after running a 200 million dollar a year business with over 1000 employees. I have a little bit of experience in actual P&L and financial statements as well as an understanding of people and what they do with their money and the taxes affect on business.

I always hear what I want to hear but learned to verify the rhetoric with actual facts. the sites I gave you provide actual facts not opinions, not rhetoric. It would help you a lot to take a little time verifying what you have been told by looking at actual data. Too many blindly believe in an ideology without verifying the data to support that ideology.
 
Conservative said:
I understand, I retired 6 years ago at age 57 after running a 200 million dollar a year business with over 1000 employees. I have a little bit of experience in actual P&L and financial statements as well as an understanding of people and what they do with their money and the taxes affect on business.

I always hear what I want to hear but learned to verify the rhetoric with actual facts. the sites I gave you provide actual facts not opinions, not rhetoric. It would help you a lot to take a little time verifying what you have been told by looking at actual data. Too many blindly believe in an ideology without verifying the data to support that ideology.
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I retired at 57 also, but never reached the rarified air you have. You should stop wasting your time here with us mental midgets.
Volunteer at the the Whitehouse, perhaps?
I do, on occasion, play pinochle with someone who has a good understanding of economics, and I bring up some of the stuff I read here at DP and ask him about it. He says "koolaid comes in all flavors". Economics for the economy of the nation isn't the same flavor as the economics of the business you managed....
 
UtahBill said:
I retired at 57 also, but never reached the rarified air you have. You should stop wasting your time here with us mental midgets.
Volunteer at the the Whitehouse, perhaps?
I do, on occasion, play pinochle with someone who has a good understanding of economics, and I bring up some of the stuff I read here at DP and ask him about it. He says "koolaid comes in all flavors". Economics for the economy of the nation isn't the same flavor as the economics of the business you managed....
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Tell your friend there really isn't an ounce of difference, only the dollar amount. Economic is economic and there isn't a difference between a financial statement for the govt. or you, only the amount is different. It isn't that difficult once one understands the role of the govt, both the Federal and the State. Much of what is taken on by the Federal Govt. belongs at the state level, but then again that would give up some power and control and we cannot have that.

Ask anyone who questions my logic here who cares about what people make and take home, a conservative or a liberal? Who believes it is the government's role to take on personal responsibility issues, liberals or conservatives. Why do liberals worry about revenue and never about spending? Talk about the role of govt. and you will find the answer.
 
Conservative said:
Tell your friend there really isn't an ounce of difference, only the dollar amount. Economic is economic and there isn't a difference between a financial statement for the govt. or you, only the amount is different. It isn't that difficult once one understands the role of the govt, both the Federal and the State. Much of what is taken on by the Federal Govt. belongs at the state level, but then again that would give up some power and control and we cannot have that.

Ask anyone who questions my logic here who cares about what people make and take home, a conservative or a liberal? Who believes it is the government's role to take on personal responsibility issues, liberals or conservatives. Why do liberals worry about revenue and never about spending? Talk about the role of govt. and you will find the answer.
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My friend is a retired economics professor from Utah State...
The current mess is a whole new flavor, and like any other nasty tasting food, it is an acquired taste. We need to get used to it, it will be on the menu for a long time, even if the GOP takes over, hell, especially if the GOP takes over....
 
UtahBill said:
My friend is a retired economics professor from Utah State...
The current mess is a whole new flavor, and like any other nasty tasting food, it is an acquired taste. We need to get used to it, it will be on the menu for a long time, even if the GOP takes over, hell, especially if the GOP takes over....
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What better happen with the GOP take over is a massive effort to cut spending. I am sure your economics friend is better educated than most of the people elected to office however it really isn't that hard, define the role of the govt. and match the revenue to that role instead of spending on everything and anything they want.
 
Conservative said:
What better happen with the GOP take over is a massive effort to cut spending. I am sure your economics friend is better educated than most of the people elected to office however it really isn't that hard, define the role of the govt. and match the revenue to that role instead of spending on everything and anything they want.
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With the courts standing by to enforce existing laws, of course. New laws? Umm, guess who makes the laws? Congress isn't about to enact laws that forces them to be responsible to the public...
 
UtahBill said:
With the courts standing by to enforce existing laws, of course. New laws? Umm, guess who makes the laws? Congress isn't about to enact laws that forces them to be responsible to the public...
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Congress appropriates the spending and they better cut those appropriations.
 
UtahBill said:
With the courts standing by to enforce existing laws, of course. New laws? Umm, guess who makes the laws? Congress isn't about to enact laws that forces them to be responsible to the public...
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They are closer to it now than they were two weeks ago, and if those of us who are active in Tea Party beliefs have the mettle, they will be even closer two years from now. What is clear is that the impetus for such will not come from the left. They're keeping Pelosi on her thrown if you need current evidence.

Outlawing earmarks is the first tiny step. Something such as The Fair Tax, and on a wish-list whim, term limits down the road. would be the goal.
 
anywho;


as per the OP


Senator Reid today signalled a willingness to fold on not raising taxes on employers.


looks like whether Pelosi wants to shoot the American economy in the face or not is going to become irrelevant.
 
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