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Paul Harvey telling it like it is:

Navy Pride

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Paul Harvey and Prayer

Paul Harvey says:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game.

So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.


If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended.
It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome ...

But what about the atheists? is another argument.

What about them?
Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating; to pray before we go to sleep.

Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a
handful of people and their lawyers are telling us
to cease praying.

God, help us.
And if that last sentence offends you, well . .. just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long.. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority don't care what they want. It is time the majority rules! It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray; you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right ... But by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back ...
and we WILL WIN!

God bless us one and all ... especially those who denounce Him , God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all.

God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.


May 2007 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.
 
I wish I had because it is right on.........
 
Lol someone actually used this in thier myspace bullitien because it happened in my school.
 
I wish I had because it is right on.........

Why are you so anti-Jesus? Do you realy hate HIM so strongly that you support that which goes completely against His teachings?


"When thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly" (Matt. 6:6).

Paul Harvey is a Pharisee, working in diamentrical opposition to Jesus' teachings. I don't really understand people calling themselves Christians who follow men instead of Jesus. Shouldn't it be about His teachings?
 
It is true Matt. 6:6 does cover public prayer and it's meaning is clear. However, I can't say I have ever witnessed any religion or any denomination of said religions, NOT practice publicly and this included prayer.

The bible also covers positions to be taken in regards to public law. Give to Ceasar....... And legally, I think religion is to be kept out of publicly funded education. So that settles that.

Myself, we'll let's just say I don't believe in Santa Claus either BUT it's no skin off my nose if some yahoo want's to chant hara khrishna or Praize Jeeeeezus at a football game. If a bunch of kids want to meet before school at some Youth For Christ meeting, why should I object? I mean, as long as the Islams for Jihad can meet across the hall and the Wiccans can meet in the lunchroom why should we mind.

I believe Paul Harvey is dead on when he says:
If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.


If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended.
It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome ...

Go easy on NP Gardner. He's Catholic. You can't blame him for not knowing the bible. They have priests to do that for them. They just gotta know the priest. My wife is Catholic. They are good people in my book generally speaking. Their religion seems contrary to the bible in my personal opinion, but once again, no skin off my nose as long as they don't tread on me.
 
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Paul Harvey says:

No, no he didn't.

I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution

Thats because science isn't decided based on how much you like the theory. Nor is the theory of evolution Darwin's, natural selection is his.

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles.

The hell it is; "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Treaty of Tripoli of 1796, initially signed by a representative of the US on 4 November 1796 during Washington's presidency, approved by Congress 7 June 1797 and finally signed by President John Adams on 10 June 1797. Article 11

According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.


If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended.
It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome ...

How many times does it have to be made clear to you, we are a secular republic, and we shall not respect ANY establishment of religion. No matter how loud the majority makes claims of their absent tyranny.

But what about the atheists? is another argument.

What about them?
Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

***** that, you go somewhere. Pray to yourself, no one has to hear it. A moment of silence for prayer is as far as we'll give ya.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights.

What rights where? When did specific denominations get granted said rights, and when were they taken away?

Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating; to pray before we go to sleep.

And no one is trying to stop you, again, these kinds of prayers are private, and most of all, SILENT.

Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a
handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.

Your bible is not above the law, the lawyers are here to tell you what is the law. Your bible also tells you to stone adulterers, just try it, I *****ing dare you.

The silent majority has been silent too long.. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority don't care what they want. It is time the majority rules!... We are fighting back ...
and we WILL WIN!

March on ye Christian soldiers!

You'll win what? You're a dying breed, lashing out in desperation, because your "reason" cannot sustain your numbers. Faith is on its way out, and the endgame for humanity will be reason.

The secular, free-thinking, objectivist libertarians will win the culture wars, because your side came to a battle of wits armed with notions like "The earth was created after the Chinese domesticated the water buffalo."


God bless us one and all ... especially those who denounce Him , God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all.

Zeus bless us one and all, especially those who denounce him. I'm sick of people claiming America is the greatest, and doing nothing about earning the title.

May 2007 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.

Silent majority my ***, how very pathetic NP. Keep on pretending like you've read the bible, keep on pretending you're a Christian, keep on pretending you're a patriot, and keep on fighting evolution, or other forms of truth. I want you to keep doing these things, so we know who you are.
 
Frankly, I could personally care less about a prayer before a football game. I'd prefer some sort of prayer to the norse gods, with old fashioned "may we desecrate the blood soaked corpses of our enemies" sort of lines.

That said, it still is clear endorsement of religion. Claiming that you have some sort of "need" to make a prayer before a football game is unfounded. Its nothing more than an attempt to assert the power of the majority religion.
 
I ffigured this thread would torque the jaws of all the left wingers..I love it......:lol:
 
That said, it still is clear endorsement of religion. Claiming that you have some sort of "need" to make a prayer before a football game is unfounded. Its nothing more than an attempt to assert the power of the majority religion.

People like him can pray before any game, whenever they want. He can bow his head and pray to his God all he wants. Some of the Christians on this site seem to ignore this fact. His ability to pray is completely under his own control. It seems like they would just pray and enjoy it.

But they have the need to put a person in front of a microphone and pray so everybody has to hear it, and the need for the crowd to be quiet while their prayer is said. Its a very selfish need, and a desire to control others.
 
I ffigured this thread would torque the jaws of all the left wingers..I love it......

If you want to piss people off, you could just right an article about how we should force foster children in prostitution to pay for their upkeep. Much more effective.

I don't really care so much about the prayer itself, merely the motivation behind it.
 
I ffigured this thread would torque the jaws of all the left wingers..I love it......:lol:

Do ya love not responding to replies on your own thread?

I mean we already know you love to categorize anyone who disagrees with you as "on the left," but haven't you realized that you're so far right that EVERYONE is left (to you) and that some people actually care about real conservatism?
 
Do ya love not responding to replies on your own thread?

I mean we already know you love to categorize anyone who disagrees with you as "on the left," but haven't you realized that you're so far right that EVERYONE is left (to you) and that some people actually care about real conservatism?


Hell yeah I can respond to my own thread.........I suppose you have never done that to one you orginated........

I just calls em as I sees em my left wing friend........If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then its usually a duck...You should be proud your a left wing liberal.... Why are you so ashamed of it?:confused:
 
rathi;519385[B said:
]If you want to piss people off, you could just right an article about how we should force foster children in prostitution to pay for their upkeep. [/B]Much more effective.

I don't really care so much about the prayer itself, merely the motivation behind it.


Sorry you lost me on this one.........:confused:
 
Hell yeah I can respond to my own thread.........I suppose you have never done that to one you orginated........

Read what I said again, and then maybe the english language will work for you this time. I was commenting on your NON-reply.

I just calls em as I sees em my left wing friend........If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then its usually a duck...You should be proud your a left wing liberal.... Why are you so ashamed of it?:confused:

I'm not even going to bother anymore. You're such a partisan hack you're beyond reason. You're about as good a judge of character as the idiots who blame everything on "da debil!"

galenrox said:
he's about as pure of an example of a Libertarian as you are going to find.

I appreciate the acknowledgement, but it'll fall on deaf ears. NP's kneejerk response to people not buying into his bullshit is "well he must be a liberal." He has never ONCE answered me when I asked "how am I a liberal?"

I would pity him if he wasn't part of the problem. Accuse me of shame... :rofl I don't even know the feeling.
 
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From what I can tell, this is the issue of prayer amongst a school sports team before the game.

I think you point out an important distinction, though, and that is the difference between private actions done in a public setting, and public actions. If the team all gets together and says a prayer, that's fine, if the coach tells them all to huddle up to pray, that's not. That's where the line should be, that's where the constitution clearly says the line should be, and so yeah...

.......10-4.
 
I appreciate the acknowledgement, but it'll fall on deaf ears. NP's kneejerk response to people not buying into his bullshit is "well he must be a liberal." He has never ONCE answered me when I asked "how am I a liberal?"

NP seems to use "liberal" as a curse. That creeps me out, he should show some respect for those with opposing views to his own.
 
NP seems to use "liberal" as a curse. That creeps me out, he should show some respect for those with opposing views to his own.

Don't worry about it.

I mean, considering the way he has made it very clear that he thinks anybody following Jesus' teachings is a liberal, then his cursing of liberals really isn't such a bad thing, no?
 
Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game.
That all depends on whether the prayer was performed at the recommendation of civil authority or whether it was inspired by devotion of the heart.

So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.
There is no big deal unless the prayer constitutes civil authority over the things that are God's.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.
What prayer ya talkin bout der, Slick?

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles.
The government of the U. S. was ordained and established by the American people in 1788. The noble document says nothing about Christian principles, so why don't you elaborate on what you mean by "Christian principles?"

According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?
To say that one's religious principles are obnoxious or that his sect is small, is to lift the evil at once and exhibit in its naked deformity the doctrine that religious truth is to be tested by numbers or that the major sects have a right to govern the minor.

--James Madison
If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.


If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended.
It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome ...
What if the prayers were performed at the behest of the civil magistrate in violation of the Savior's command not to render to Caesar the things that are God's. Or do you believe that authority over religion does not belong exclusively and absolutely to God?

But what about the atheists? is another argument.

What about them?
Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!
The civil magistrate has no business recommending prayer or discouraging it. He should leave religious matters to the authority of God and stay out of his jurisdiction.

Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do.
Since when does the Constitution empower the thousands to use the civil authority to advise the dissenters regarding matters of religion?

I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.
Are you talking about prayer inspired by the civil magistrate or prayer from a pure heart? Do you know the difference?

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights.

There is no divine right nor any sacred duty to Render unto Caesar that which rightfully belongs to God. James Madison said it well when he wrote that,
"I[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]t is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage and such only as he believes to be acceptable to him."[/FONT]
 
Paul Harvey and Prayer

Paul Harvey says:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game.

So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game in Jerusalem, I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer.


If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.

And I wouldn't be offended.
It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome ...

But what about the atheists? is another argument.

What about them?
Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating; to pray before we go to sleep.

Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a
handful of people and their lawyers are telling us
to cease praying.

God, help us.
And if that last sentence offends you, well . .. just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long.. It's time we let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority don't care what they want. It is time the majority rules! It's time we tell them, you don't have to pray; you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right ... But by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back ...
and we WILL WIN!

God bless us one and all ... especially those who denounce Him , God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all.

God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.


May 2007 be the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions.

Isn't he DEAD YET?! My only prayer is that God will FINALLY take Paul Harvey to Heaven where he belongs, so we can listen to someone who has the ability to think a bit more RATIONALLY. People have the right and the freedom to pray ANY TIME THEY WANT, why do they need to have everyone ELSE'S attention to do so?? That's what I've never understood about the idiots who feel the need to have 'group prayers'. Do they think that God will give them more attention if more people are saying it? I've never understood why they don't realize that the LAST thing on God's mind is who's gonna win a freakn' FOOTBALL game, and that since they obviously don't WIN every time they pray to win, God is most DEFINATELY not listening, nor does God CARE. If it DID make a difference, they would win every game and no players would ever get hurt. Why are people as stupid as Harvey even given a voice in the media! THAT is what concerns me -- and when will society FINALLY learn to think higher then the level of a 4th grader at Sunday school?!!?
 
From what I can tell, this is the issue of prayer amongst a school sports team before the game.

I think you point out an important distinction, though, and that is the difference between private actions done in a public setting, and public actions. If the team all gets together and says a prayer, that's fine, if the coach tells them all to huddle up to pray, that's not. That's where the line should be, that's where the constitution clearly says the line should be, and so yeah...

I'm going to pose a question out of curitosity. I'm not debating it...yet lol. Right now I just want to gain some perspective on the opinions of my question.

Say the team huddles up for a prayer, but a muslim, a jew, a buddist and an athiest are all on the team and don't pray the same prayers, or at all. Would that have any effect on the way the Christian praying players and coach treat the non-praying players? Would the coach not play someone simply because they wouldn't pray with them? We all know that those who chose to, have the right to not participate in prayer. But at what cost to the person who chooses not to pray? Being ostracised from the team?

One reason I ask this is that there is a program at my college that is known for having prayer groups out in the hallway before each test. An athiest (of course) won't pray, and can make the choice to not participate. But will that choice not to pray, affect a non-prayer vs. a pray-er's grade based on professor bias? What kind of discrimination would they face as the one (or one of the few) who won't go out in the hallway to pray to an invisible nothing for something that only they have the power over (studying, reading, paying attention, note taking vs. not). They could obviously just go out in the hall and pretend to pray or claim that they believe prayer is a private thing that they prefer to do alone. But then why should they have to lie to appease the prof to get the grade they deserve? Or what about getting preached and prolesthyized at every day before and after class in order to be "saved" as so many like to do.
 
I'm going to pose a question out of curitosity. I'm not debating it...yet lol. Right now I just want to gain some perspective on the opinions of my question.

Say the team huddles up for a prayer, but a muslim, a jew, a buddist and an athiest are all on the team and don't pray the same prayers, or at all. Would that have any effect on the way the Christian praying players and coach treat the non-praying players? Would the coach not play someone simply because they wouldn't pray with them? We all know that those who chose to, have the right to not participate in prayer. But at what cost to the person who chooses not to pray? Being ostracised from the team?

One reason I ask this is that there is a program at my college that is known for having prayer groups out in the hallway before each test. An athiest (of course) won't pray, and can make the choice to not participate. But will that choice not to pray, affect a non-prayer vs. a pray-er's grade based on professor bias? What kind of discrimination would they face as the one (or one of the few) who won't go out in the hallway to pray to an invisible nothing for something that only they have the power over (studying, reading, paying attention, note taking vs. not). They could obviously just go out in the hall and pretend to pray or claim that they believe prayer is a private thing that they prefer to do alone. But then why should they have to lie to appease the prof to get the grade they deserve? Or what about getting preached and prolesthyized at every day before and after class in order to be "saved" as so many like to do.

You bring up an excellent point, and I also think Galenrox point was valid, but you illustrated just WHY it is so important that we make a policy of NOT PRAYING under these circumstances because it will ALWAYS be taking a risk of causing offense, and since we all know that anyone can take a couple minutes at ANY time to pray, there will be nothing lost if prayer is removed from the playing field. And to Paul Harvey and others who believe they have the right to pray in a group huddle, I say: try to EMPATHIZE and put yourself in the position of the person who would be offended! Imagine if your team said satanic prayers, would that seem offensive to you? Then you know how others feel when saying Christian prayers. Why can't they just pray on their OWN time or have a group huddle? It's very obvious that a prayer isn't going to have any effect other than to alienate team members, which would work AGAINST the team -- prayer probably causes more LOSSES than wins, if we think about it rationally.
 
You bring up an excellent point, and I also think Galenrox point was valid, but you illustrated just WHY it is so important that we make a policy of NOT PRAYING under these circumstances because it will ALWAYS be taking a risk of causing offense, and since we all know that anyone can take a couple minutes at ANY time to pray, there will be nothing lost if prayer is removed from the playing field. And to Paul Harvey and others who believe they have the right to pray in a group huddle, I say: try to EMPATHIZE and put yourself in the position of the person who would be offended! Imagine if your team said satanic prayers, would that seem offensive to you? Then you know how others feel when saying Christian prayers. Why can't they just pray on their OWN time or have a group huddle? It's very obvious that a prayer isn't going to have any effect other than to alienate team members, which would work AGAINST the team -- prayer probably causes more LOSSES than wins, if we think about it rationally.


This: "we all know that anyone can take a couple minutes at ANY time to pray..." is a very pertinent point.

To what extent do people have the right to make a public spectacle out of their religiosity, if it makes others uncomfortable and particularly if it causes discrimination against those who decline to participate in the spectacle?
Certainly church is an appropriate place to make an active demonstration of one's religious beliefs, but is it appropriate in secular situations such as classrooms and sporting events?
One could argue that it's not inappropriate, but I think it is, to the extent that it creates detrimental consequences to those who don't wish to participate.
 
You bring up an excellent point, and I also think Galenrox point was valid, but you illustrated just WHY it is so important that we make a policy of NOT PRAYING under these circumstances because it will ALWAYS be taking a risk of causing offense, and since we all know that anyone can take a couple minutes at ANY time to pray, there will be nothing lost if prayer is removed from the playing field. And to Paul Harvey and others who believe they have the right to pray in a group huddle, I say: try to EMPATHIZE and put yourself in the position of the person who would be offended! Imagine if your team said satanic prayers, would that seem offensive to you? Then you know how others feel when saying Christian prayers. Why can't they just pray on their OWN time or have a group huddle? It's very obvious that a prayer isn't going to have any effect other than to alienate team members, which would work AGAINST the team -- prayer probably causes more LOSSES than wins, if we think about it rationally.

I agree that he did make a valid point, I was just kind of adding onto it. :) Although I think that there is some sort of power of prayer for those who choose to use it. I think that prayer can offer a very calming and motivating effect for those that believe in it. Kind of like a mental boost. Granted it won't give anyone the answers to the exam questions or make the ball go through the goal posts. But I think that it offers a form of mental "support" to those who might need it at the times they do need it.

This: "we all know that anyone can take a couple minutes at ANY time to pray..." is a very pertinent point.

To what extent do people have the right to make a public spectacle out of their religiosity, if it makes others uncomfortable and particularly if it causes discrimination against those who decline to participate in the spectacle?
Certainly church is an appropriate place to make an active demonstration of one's religious beliefs, but is it appropriate in secular situations such as classrooms and sporting events?
One could argue that it's not inappropriate, but I think it is, to the extent that it creates detrimental consequences to those who don't wish to participate.

Exactly. Although prayer doesn't offend me personally, I just feel that if they want us to respect them to allow them to pray, than they should also respect those that believe differently than they do to pray silently to themselves. It doesn't matter who the religious majority is. We live in a country where we are to be free from religious persecution. But public prayer makes people vulnerable to that exact persecution we are supposed to be free from.
 
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