Over-Laying Issue with The American millitary

[thinkforyoursel]

Has their ever been a group that have had more worth-less platitudes thrown at them the the army?

I really questioned how today's military is constructed on several fronts:

How in the world is it appropriate for illegals to knowingly wear the uniform in an Army everyone can truly be proud of?

How can somebody who's merely born here .... claim to be an American ...and call somebody who get's back from several tours in Iraq ...an illegal alien?

How can America ...deport ..a veteran?

I am against the amnesty programs congress is trying to cook up now...I believe we have good laws today that only needs to be enforced.

But in my view ...no one ...no one but an American should wear the American uniform.
If some guy from Mexico is being sent into battle for America ....he immediately earns the right to be an American. He earns that right ...not after he comes back ....but immediately when American declares him a US soldier!
And in my view that Mexican being trust into battle has a better claim as an American citizen than some random Joe who's merely born here and never serves!

There are some things you and only you do for yourself ! For example ....you ..and only you ..."boff" your wife ...blow your nose...handle your wee-wee....etc...those are duties you don't outsource!

In a similar way you can't outsource fighting to protect your country.
This ingrained desire and sense of duty should be what's at the core of any claim for being an American, or a Canadian, or a Russian etc.

It's incredulous to me that Americans with no desire to ever wear a uniform see it normal to then turn to a uniformed soldier and call them illegal!

So I believe that the military construct need to be examined ...the military system in many ways is built on the model of the .."pay day lender" for example.
The pay-day-lender finds its victims among people caught in a bind ...people who are desperate ...then they lend them money at enormous rates!

The military in a similar way sneers too many people in poverty.....people in desperate situation looking for a way out or a way up!
And in a similar way it also gets illegals to wear the uniform ..desperate people looking for a way in.

I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways ...either adopt a policy that nobody without a US citizenship can wear the uniform ....or when we find residents. illegals etc. we make them citizens before they get to wear the uniform.

America often fast track non military persons to citizens, for example athletes or highly educated individuals, why should wearing the uniform be different? Who's really more important ....some guy from Cuba who throws a 90 mph fast-ball....or some guy from Mexico wearing the uniform?

When I watched how the situation played out since the Iraq war, I truly feel something is broken here. And one of the biggest problem is that people who are born here are allowed to psychologically absolve themselves entirely of any need to literally fight for their country. We always had this here and in many other countries ...but this mindset was for the well-to-do...the country's aristocrats! That mindset today has filtered down to every Joe-Blow out there making $50K a year!
Your everyday people want a military to be proud of, they want to see it win battles...in the very same way...a Seattle Sea-hawks fan, or a Miami Heat fan want to see their team win championship. They want to participate ..from the seat of their pants only!

With that mind set I can't understand what then gives you this right to call yourself an American .... are you just here to get stuff?

 

[US Conservative]

Has their ever been a group that have had more worth-less platitudes thrown at them the the army?

Leftists will always tell you how they feel. Has Obama offered you a job in his administration yet?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Leftists will always tell you how they feel. Has Obama offered you a job in his administration yet?

Moderator's Warning:

Knock off the baiting.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

heh-heh-heh .....I know I touched a nerve here ! :mrgreen:

And you people think the problem was ..Obama's weakness....nah!

Obama inherited a military propped up by platitudes because Americans refuse to fight for their own country.

This is why this hollowed army cannot take on a real force like China or Russian where ...rather you seek .."war" ...against men who don't even where shoes.

For the last decade Vldimir Putin have been watching this ...and this is why today he ignores any military threat from America!

 

[Thrilla]

I served with a very fine NCO ...he ended up being my friend.
unfortunately, we lost him in combat ..a devastating loss to me
his son, my godson, came under my care at an early age, and now he is also a very good Marine NCO.

the guy was pretty much a badass... one of the few ferocious fighters i've had the pleasure of serving with.
in his downtime, he would read... he just devoured books on american history, politics, and civics.

I had known him for 3 or 4 years before i came to find out he was not an American citizen... he was a citizen of the Philippines... he was a philippino black dude.
but here he was, living in the mud with me, fighting for us like few other are capable of.

through his service, he proved to all around him, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he was American through and through...despite what his legal status said.

he died an American citizen , though

that's just my personal anecdote... but it's common knowledge that non-citizens make fine soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen.. they tend to go the extra mile.


where you are in err is stating that these guys are illegal aliens... they are most certainly not

in order to enlist, they must possess a green card ( permanent residency).. they must reside in the US.. and speak, read, and write english
they are immigrants, to be sure... but they are NOT illegal immigrants.

so yeah, it's best to do a lil research on the matter before you go spouting off stupid ****..

 

[thinkforyoursel]

through his service, he proved to all around him, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he was American through and through...despite what his legal status said.

he died an American citizen , though

LOL....this is what so terribly cynical about your argument and mind-set. He died an American .....dude citizenship is not the same as going to heaven! Who cares when you're dead whether or not you're a citizen? This is my argument ...these people should be citizens before they ever get to be a soldier!

that's just my personal anecdote... but it's common knowledge that non-citizens make fine soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen.. they tend to go the extra mile.

You're trying to complicate this issue ...there is nothing superior about American soldiers ....the Vietnamese waxed America's a$$ ..'nuff said.
Almost any true army anywhere have soldiers who would easily qualified for the American military!

where you are in err is stating that these guys are illegal aliens... they are most certainly

in order to enlist, they must possess a green card ( permanent residency).. they must reside in the US.. and speak, read, and write english
they are immigrants, to be sure... but they are NOT illegal immigrants.

Don't think there's a difference between a resident and a citizen ...think again. There also have been incidents or such residents being deported to their country of origin ...after military service.

I'll say it again .....how does merely being born here ....means your claim on citizenship trumps somebody who actually fought for the country?

What does your birth ...mean to the country really....the short answer is NOTHING!

 

[Thrilla]

LOL....this is what so terribly cynical about your argument and mind-set. He died an American .....dude citizenship is not the same as going to heaven! Who cares when you're dead whether or not you're a citizen? This is my argument ...these people should be citizens before they ever get to be a soldier!

they are all permanent residents before they are soldiers... why is that not good enough in your book?

You're trying to complicate this issue ...there is nothing superior about American soldiers ....the Vietnamese waxed America's a$$ ..'nuff said.
Almost any true army anywhere have soldiers who would easily qualified for the American military!

I won't entertain your personal opinions about the military...

Don't think there's a difference between a resident and a citizen ...think again. There also have been incidents or such residents being deported to their country of origin ...after military service

of course there's a difference between residents and citizens.
my point is that you are claiming these guys are illegal immigrants.. and quite frankly, you are factually and legally incorrect on that point.

i'm really not interested in your use of outliers to prove some sort of point...what difference does it make to your argument if some have been deported?

I'll say it again .....how does merely being born here ....means your claim on citizenship trumps somebody who actually fought for the country?

this isn't a zero sum game... there is no "trumping" of anyone's citizenship.

a very small percentage of Americans join the military... at any given time, about 1% of our population is serving... are you trying to tell us that these "1%ers" are the only ones that should have citizenship?
or is your point that people born here should have to do something extra to gain citizenship?

really, i'm confused to where you are trying to go with this, well, besides a nonsensical rant.

What does your birth ...mean to the country really....the short answer is NOTHING!

it means you are a citizen by default

 

[thinkforyoursel]

they are all permanent residents before they are soldiers... why is that not good enough in your book?

Actually no...it's not good enough. Do you understand there are millions of DOD jobs requiring citizenship for example .....do you know there are many contracting firms for the military that have such requirements. Do you know residents pay into the SS system and are not eligible for disbursements. It is not nearly enough. But there is a broader issue here ...and that is the shamelessness of outsourcing the very essence of the country.

Let me draw an analogy here ....who is a father ...somebody who had sex with the mother, or a man who fend for his kids, take them to ball games ..etc? That is the analogy when claiming citizenship merely by birth compared to somebody who actually fight for the country.

it means you are a citizen by default

It means a sense of entitlement ....people who want something for absolutely nothing. If there ever was a welfare mentality that's it right there!
This was why we had people sitting on their behinds demanding the Iraq war ...demanding tax cuts ...and turned a blind eye to wounded vets when they returned!!
Their mentality was I was born here ...gimmie...gimmie...gimmie!!