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Our Societal Priorities

I am........

  • responsible and accountable for my feelings and actions

    Votes: 13 86.7%
  • responsible and accountable for the feelings and actions of others.

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

Trismegistus

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Assuming that each of us gravitates more toward one of these ideas, choose which best describes your view and state why it is more important than the other in terms of a healthy society.
 

cnredd

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I don't really know where you are going with this, but I'll try and give my answer...

Pretty much EVERYTHING you do effects the actions and feelings of someone else...changing lanes, whether or not you hold a door for a stranger, your cologne, saying "Thank you" when someone does something nice for you.
I think what you might mean is "does it matter"?(Although I'm not quite sure)

You and someone else are equi-distant from a one-stall public bathroom. You need to go, but not in a major way, and you do have the time to wait...you don't know if the other person needs to go badly or not. Do you say "F*** 'em!" and start speeding up? Or do you slow down and let them have first dibs?"

Is this what you mean by "Societal Tendencies"?
 

Schweddy

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Wow cnredd was able to articulate my thoughts exactly.

Putting yourself before others could be sign of arrogance, equally putting others before yourself could be a sign of depression.

This is a pretty vague poll. But interested to see where it might lead us.
 

Trismegistus

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You must forgive my poll's vagueness. It is a question designed to cause people to think about how they view social responsibility. I should have been more specific. I should have added that choosing one does not preclude the other, rather it would be more important than the other in that person's view. It can be quite revealing.

In terms of society, there are those who believe that personal responsibility is the key to a working society.....each of them, willingly owning their words, actions and reactions as a means to the development of an ordered, yet free society. These people usually believe that their current situation is based on decisions that they, themselves, made. They attach their outlook for success based on what they can do, themselves, to improve the situation.

There are others who believe that society, is responsible for the well being of it's denizens. They assert that others have, through various means or disaster, have caused their current situation. They attach their outlook for success to the limitations of what society can do to improve their situation. They rely on the wisdom of the collective to keep an ordered, yet free society.

I understand that these are gross generalizations, please bear with me. It is my hope to get people to ponder how they view their social responsibilities. For some reason, this topic, at times, can be heated. I merely wish to spark thoughtful dialogue.

This model translates in to many different areas.

For example:
If I am battered by my wife, who is more responsible?
a. Her father who beat her daily as a child?
b. My wife, for battering me?

or

If I am a Christian and I take offense to a small buddha statue being displayed behind the counter in a convenience store, who is responsible for my feelings of being offended?
a. the store owner for displaying the statue?
b. Me for being offended

or

If I am a child in grade school and I recieve a kindness award because "it is my turn" or because "every one deserves an award", is that a good thing or not?
 

Schweddy

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Ah... I see where your going. Very interesting stuff.

If you want, we can:
1. Create another poll then move these posts there & close this one
2. Update this poll with additional choices.

Up 2 u.
 

cnredd

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Trismegistus said:
In terms of society, there are those who believe that personal responsibility is the key to a working society.....each of them, willingly owning their words, actions and reactions as a means to the development of an ordered, yet free society. These people usually believe that their current situation is based on decisions that they, themselves, made. They attach their outlook for success based on what they can do, themselves, to improve the situation.
That would be the minority who walked past the crack houses in his neighborhood to go to school everyday, didn't disrupt the classes, did his homework, got a legitimate scholership based on what he's learned, got his degree, became a respected lawyer, and is now working as a justice...he writes books in his spare time...

There are others who believe that society, is responsible for the well being of it's denizens. They assert that others have, through various means or disaster, have caused their current situation. They attach their outlook for success to the limitations of what society can do to improve their situation. They rely on the wisdom of the collective to keep an ordered, yet free society.
That's the above mentioned's neighbor, who says he can't get a job 'cause he's always being put down by "the Man".


Let's say "success" is defined by the finish line of a race...

Some people are born 100 feet from the finish line(Paris Hilton, anyone named Rockafeller);
Some people are born 100 miles from the finish line(born in a housing project or to drug addicted patents, etc...)

Obviously, life isn't fair - Those born close to the finish line don't have far to go.

But for those who are born far away from the finish line have two choices..
1)Stand still and complain about your situation.
2)Suck it up and start walking.

Now nothing's impossible, I have found for when my chin is on the ground,
I pick myself up, dust myself off, and start all over again.
Don't lose your confidence if you slip, be grateful for a pleasant trip,
And pick yourself up, dust off, start over again.
Work like a soul inspired until the battle of the day is won.
You may be sick and tired, but you be a man, my son.
Will you remember the famous men who had to fall to rise again,
So take a deep breath, pick yourself up, start all over again.
 
Last edited:

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cnredd:
But for those who are born far away from the finish line have two choices..
1)Stand still and complain about your situation.
2)Suck it up and start walking.

Now nothing's impossible, I have found for when my chin is on the ground,
I pick myself up, dust myself off, and start all over again.
Don't lose your confidence if you slip, be grateful for a pleasant trip,
And pick yourself up, dust off, start over again.
Work like a soul inspired until the battle of the day is won.
You may be sick and tired, but you be a man, my son.
Will you remember the famous men who had to fall to rise again,
So take a deep breath, pick yourself up, start all over again.
Do you have any suggestions that are not cliche' based? Something real world usable instead of rhetoric. Not to seem combative, I don't think you can solve complex problems with simple solutions. I know of one for starters. Too many people (I'm in this bunch) lie to themselves. If you [not you personnally, I'm just pontificating] can be concious of this one human trait, the picture [of life around you] tends to be a little more in focus. It is for me.
 

cnredd

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Hey Billo,

Beat it...This is adult swim...

We'll let you know when the kiddie pool opens....
 

debate_junkie

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Trismegistus said:
You must forgive my poll's vagueness. It is a question designed to cause people to think about how they view social responsibility. I should have been more specific. I should have added that choosing one does not preclude the other, rather it would be more important than the other in that person's view. It can be quite revealing.
I think it's an excellent topic, and one that is not addressed enough.

[
Trismegistus said:
In terms of society, there are those who believe that personal responsibility is the key to a working society.....each of them, willingly owning their words, actions and reactions as a means to the development of an ordered, yet free society. These people usually believe that their current situation is based on decisions that they, themselves, made. They attach their outlook for success based on what they can do, themselves, to improve the situation.
This is where I fit. But I'd like to add something else to that, if I may. Not only owning our own words and actions, but also those of our minor children. If my child goes spewing racist remarks, he/she learned that somewhere. If I, as a parent, don't get to the source of it, aren't I only contributing to the problem as it continues?

[
Trismegistus said:
There are others who believe that society, is responsible for the well being of it's denizens. They assert that others have, through various means or disaster, have caused their current situation. They attach their outlook for success to the limitations of what society can do to improve their situation. They rely on the wisdom of the collective to keep an ordered, yet free society.
This I cannot agree with in any manner. I can't see how this can work, because in the end, someone's rights under the same constitution are getting trampled.

Trismegistus said:
I understand that these are gross generalizations, please bear with me. It is my hope to get people to ponder how they view their social responsibilities. For some reason, this topic, at times, can be heated. I merely wish to spark thoughtful dialogue.
As it should. In most cases, aren't mutual understandings, agreements, and changes the result of thoughtful dialogue? :)

Trismegistus said:
This model translates in to many different areas.

For example:
If I am battered by my wife, who is more responsible?
a. Her father who beat her daily as a child?
b. My wife, for battering me?
All are responsible. Her father, indirect responsiblity, he taught her the behavior, but shouldn't be the focus of the issue. Wife is the batterer, wife is responsible for her actions, not her father. That may be a source of the problem, not the whole problem. The cycle of abuse is perpetuated (and I'm sure to get blasted, but I'm speaking of my own experiences) because 9 times out of 10, the recognition of it as battery is one we don't want to make. We make excuses, we say, He/she just had a rough day. Excusing it away makes us feel better, then we don't have to admit failure. There is MANY truth's to the addage "Admission is half the battle"

Now continuing to live in an abusive relationship, that's a responsibility of the battered adult. Rising up against a batterer can be empowering, and dangerous. Strengthening certain laws is a societal thing, and may make this facet of the problem eaiser.

or

[
Trismegistus said:
If I am a Christian and I take offense to a small buddha statue being displayed behind the counter in a convenience store, who is responsible for my feelings of being offended?
a. the store owner for displaying the statue?
b. Me for being offended
No brainer... the one offended. There are other stores that don't have a religious display, if it's that bothersome, right?


Trismegistus said:
or

If I am a child in grade school and I recieve a kindness award because "it is my turn" or because "every one deserves an award", is that a good thing or not?
Getting an award for what one hasn't achieved is pointless. In my mind, it only festers an "entitlement" attitude, where people come to expect things without having to do the work to earn them.
 
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