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Opinions on this...

vesper said:
That's quite high for one cart of groceries. You must eat like a Queen. I could buy a standing rib roast, T-bones, haddock at almost 20 bucks a pound, an assortment of high end cheeses from the deli, and every fruit out of season in produce, a couple of bottles of good wine and not spend 350 in one cart and still have all the essentials.
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Shopping carts in the Midwest must be smaller than they are here.
 
paddymcdougall said:
I'm trying to figure out how you make the products unable to be resold. Pee all over them?

EBT cards are easier to carry, have less stigma at the store, and can be refilled, which would save on mailing coupons. Moving to EBT cards makes sense, even if that doesn't curb the abuses of some people dealing them for drugs.

But if you look at the studies, poor people don't use drugs all that much compared to rich people; they can't afford it. They want food.
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It's easy. Just make sure that you verify the identity of the people using the EBT cards. I'm actually surprised that that is not required, anyway. Make the user show a driver's license, or a non-driver's ID, to use the card. Otherwise, no dice.
 
Superfly said:
It's easy. Just make sure that you verify the identity of the people using the EBT cards. I'm actually surprised that that is not required, anyway. Make the user show a driver's license, or a non-driver's ID, to use the card. Otherwise, no dice.
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I can agree with this.
 
jet57 said:
They've done the same thing with unemployment benefits as well, so I'm not surprised. The NY Times is reporting that the cards can be used at ATMs. Unemployment cards can be too. Welfare recipients take out cash at strip clubs, liquor stores and X-rated shops | New York Post so I'm sure if the plan's gonna work.

Those cards should be hooked up to jobs: as long as you work, you can draw.
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I favor jobs paying enough so that people don't need welfare of any sort. If we had that, we wouldn't have a need for welfare and we wouldn't have welfare abuse or fraud.
 
imagep said:
I favor jobs paying enough so that people don't need welfare of any sort. If we had that, we wouldn't have a need for welfare and we wouldn't have welfare abuse or fraud.
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That's it dude. Trouble is, we will always have a percentage that fall off for whatever reason.
 
imagep said:
I favor jobs paying enough so that people don't need welfare of any sort. If we had that, we wouldn't have a need for welfare and we wouldn't have welfare abuse or fraud.
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But what about the people who simply don't want to work? Who'd rather lay around and draw, than actually get out and earn a paycheck?

Don't get me wrong - I agree with you, that a living wage would go along way in doing away with social services. But you will always have people who just don't want to work, and wouldn't take a job if you offered it to them, with the promise of a 1 hour a day work week, and a $1,000 paycheck.
 
imagep said:
I favor jobs paying enough so that people don't need welfare of any sort. If we had that, we wouldn't have a need for welfare and we wouldn't have welfare abuse or fraud.
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Hit the nail on the head.
 
Superfly said:
But what about the people who simply don't want to work? Who'd rather lay around and draw, than actually get out and earn a paycheck?

Don't get me wrong - I agree with you, that a living wage would go along way in doing away with social services. But you will always have people who just don't want to work, and wouldn't take a job if you offered it to them, with the promise of a 1 hour a day work week, and a $1,000 paycheck.
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There will be small groups who always abuse a system, it doesn't mean we should condemn the whole system. I do think they need to be kicked off if this is the case, or at least put into job searching programs.
 
imagep said:
I dunno what is wrong with that picture. People can purchase whatever they want. You didn't indicate that she was purchasing this stuff with foodstamps, and how would you even know that, the new cards look exactly like any debit or credit card.
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You can spot them with no trouble. They have a big OHIO on the front with the words "Direction Card" with scenic pictures of the state.
 
imagep said:
Shopping carts in the Midwest must be smaller than they are here.
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No there isn't a difference in the size of shopping carts but there can be a big difference in the mindset of the one who worked for the money to buy the groceries versus the one who is given the money.

I came from a family whose parents were small business owners. They started with one store then branched out. With each new store it took all they had to get it up and running. From the time I was 13 I started babysitting for extra money for things I wanted. Then when I turned 16 I was working after school as I had responsibilities like paying for my own car insurance and buying my own gasoline etc. If they needed extra help at one of the stores I would put hours in there and at a part time job At an early age I was taught to save a percentage of my earnings for a rainy day. That was good advice because life can bring some real downpours. It also taught me to be frugal. I have always been a coupon cutter for that reason. I've never found myself in a position to collect assistance. I have never been fired and never left a job before I had another one to go to. Neither has my spouse. What we have we worked damn hard to get.
 
Superfly said:
It's easy. Just make sure that you verify the identity of the people using the EBT cards. I'm actually surprised that that is not required, anyway. Make the user show a driver's license, or a non-driver's ID, to use the card. Otherwise, no dice.
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Photo ID could be incorporated into the card itself.
 
vesper said:
No there isn't a difference in the size of shopping carts but there can be a big difference in the mindset of the one who worked for the money to buy the groceries versus the one who is given the money.

I came from a family whose parents were small business owners. They started with one store then branched out. With each new store it took all they had to get it up and running. From the time I was 13 I started babysitting for extra money for things I wanted. Then when I turned 16 I was working after school as I had responsibilities like paying for my own car insurance and buying my own gasoline etc. If they needed extra help at one of the stores I would put hours in there and at a part time job At an early age I was taught to save a percentage of my earnings for a rainy day. That was good advice because life can bring some real downpours. It also taught me to be frugal. I have always been a coupon cutter for that reason. I've never found myself in a position to collect assistance. I have never been fired and never left a job before I had another one to go to. Neither has my spouse. What we have we worked damn hard to get.
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Well, not everyone who can afford large carts full of groceries is on assistance, nor are they not as hard working as anyone else. You can't really just assume that "because this happens, it's because of this." My husband and I both worked very hard for what we have, and I don't think that there is anything wrong with spending a lot on groceries, or anything else, if you can afford it. Doesn't make me a bad person. Doesn't mean I didn't work hard for what I have. :shrug:
 
vesper said:
No there isn't a difference in the size of shopping carts but there can be a big difference in the mindset of the one who worked for the money to buy the groceries versus the one who is given the money.

I came from a family whose parents were small business owners. They started with one store then branched out. With each new store it took all they had to get it up and running. From the time I was 13 I started babysitting for extra money for things I wanted. Then when I turned 16 I was working after school as I had responsibilities like paying for my own car insurance and buying my own gasoline etc. If they needed extra help at one of the stores I would put hours in there and at a part time job At an early age I was taught to save a percentage of my earnings for a rainy day. That was good advice because life can bring some real downpours. It also taught me to be frugal. I have always been a coupon cutter for that reason. I've never found myself in a position to collect assistance. I have never been fired and never left a job before I had another one to go to. Neither has my spouse. What we have we worked damn hard to get.
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That is wonderful. I am very happy for you, and hope your hard work continues to pay off.

My parents did not install so much frugality in me, and I hate clipping coupons - I don't do it. I'm sure you'd be appalled at what I spend for groceries every month, but I can afford it, and I like quality meats and wine. I try to keep an eye on some prices, but we have one grocery store in town so I buy what they have. The nearest Costco's is an hour's drive away; it's not worth my time to go there, fight the crowds, and come home again for the savings.

I'm lucky that I can afford the groceries; and certainly I'd be better off in retirement if I was more frugal. But my parents died relatively young, so who knows what will happen?

As Superfly says, just because someone buys a lot of band name groceries doesn't mean they are not hard working.

I do remember my stepdaughters trying to get babysitting or other jobs in their early teens. They had a very hard time finding them; not sure why, but the jobs just weren't there for kids in their early teens these days like they were when I was an early teen.
 
paddymcdougall said:
That is wonderful. I am very happy for you, and hope your hard work continues to pay off.

My parents did not install so much frugality in me, and I hate clipping coupons - I don't do it. I'm sure you'd be appalled at what I spend for groceries every month, but I can afford it, and I like quality meats and wine. I try to keep an eye on some prices, but we have one grocery store in town so I buy what they have. The nearest Costco's is an hour's drive away; it's not worth my time to go there, fight the crowds, and come home again for the savings.

I'm lucky that I can afford the groceries; and certainly I'd be better off in retirement if I was more frugal. But my parents died relatively young, so who knows what will happen?

As Superfly says, just because someone buys a lot of band name groceries doesn't mean they are not hard working.

I do remember my stepdaughters trying to get babysitting or other jobs in their early teens. They had a very hard time finding them; not sure why, but the jobs just weren't there for kids in their early teens these days like they were when I was an early teen.
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You earned your money and you can spend it how you see fit.

My post wasn't about people who work for their money. It was about those using EBT cards eating quite well and still having cash to buy a carton of cigarettes and booze.
 
vesper said:
You can spot them with no trouble. They have a big OHIO on the front with the words "Direction Card" with scenic pictures of the state.
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Another way to identify them is that the people who use them usually have at least one Mrs Kravitz type busybody eyeing their cart and silently judging and criticizing them.
 
Threegoofs said:
Another way to identify them is that the people who use them usually have at least one Mrs Kravitz type busybody eyeing their cart and silently judging and criticizing them.
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When you see a person using an EBT card to pay for carts full of groceries that show they are eating quite well and still have cash to buy a carton of cigarettes and booze, as a taxpayer that tells me I'm being too generous. A carton of cigarettes have got to be somewhere between 50-60 dollars these days.
 
vesper said:
When you see a person using an EBT card to pay for carts full of groceries that show they are eating quite well and still have cash to buy a carton of cigarettes and booze, as a taxpayer that tells me I'm being too generous. A carton of cigarettes have got to be somewhere between 50-60 dollars these days.
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I have never seem this happen, read up on Studies showing ebt spending.
 
Dovkan said:
I have never seem this happen, read up on Studies showing ebt spending.
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Well I sure have and it is probably because I do the grocery shopping and I stand in line and there is not much to look at except the person checking out in front of you. Today we have more people than ever receiving food stamps and the system is riddled with fraud and waste. Today we have more and more women posing as single with children who qualify for food stamps on income but in actuality they have a live in boyfriend who has a good job that helps pay the bills. They both benefit from the benefits.
 
vesper said:
When you see a person using an EBT card to pay for carts full of groceries that show they are eating quite well and still have cash to buy a carton of cigarettes and booze, as a taxpayer that tells me I'm being too generous. A carton of cigarettes have got to be somewhere between 50-60 dollars these days.
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Oh, if you only could have the wonderful life an EBT card grants these people!
 
vesper said:
When you see a person using an EBT card to pay for carts full of groceries that show they are eating quite well and still have cash to buy a carton of cigarettes and booze, as a taxpayer that tells me I'm being too generous. A carton of cigarettes have got to be somewhere between 50-60 dollars these days.
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If EBT cards can pay for "carts full of groceries" that must be a very cheap store. In California, the average amount of food stamps is $151.
Average Monthly Food Stamp Benefits Per Person | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Even if a couple people in the household are getting them, that's $300 a month; that's not a lot of groceries.
 
vesper said:
Well I sure have and it is probably because I do the grocery shopping and I stand in line and there is not much to look at except the person checking out in front of you. Today we have more people than ever receiving food stamps and the system is riddled with fraud and waste. Today we have more and more women posing as single with children who qualify for food stamps on income but in actuality they have a live in boyfriend who has a good job that helps pay the bills. They both benefit from the benefits.
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LOL the welfare queen myth and anecdotal experiences to stereotype millions of people. The statistics and studies done don't agree with you, any research will show that what you claim is so insignificant compared to the people who actually don't abuse the system, every system is abused, but we must look to what extent.
 
Threegoofs said:
Oh, if you only could have the wonderful life an EBT card grants these people!
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I'm not against a safety net for those who actually need temporary help. But I am damn tired of those who abuse the system. For someone living in my neighborhood to be on food stamps is fishy in itself. But I do know personally of couples who are not married bilking the system and they live quite well.
 
vesper said:
I'm not against a safety net for those who actually need temporary help. But I am damn tired of those who abuse the system. For someone living in my neighborhood to be on food stamps is fishy in itself. But I do know personally of couples who are not married bilking the system and they live quite well.
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If someone is actually committing fraud, turn them in. I'm sure they are out there, and they should be caught. But the food stamp program has in general been found to be pretty good, not that much fraud.

Now if you want to talk big money fraud, let's look at tax shelters that people of affluent means so often abuse....

My stepdaughter went on food stamps between jobs. She didn't change apartments (she had a lease she couldn't break) ... if she had been in your neighborhood, you would have been suspicious. After two months, she got a job and didn't need them any more. But they were very useful for that short period.
 
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