• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Openminded, looking for intelligent arguments.

Has it?

How the 'miracle' baby born two weeks before the legal abortion limit clung to life against all odds | Daily Mail Online

Here we have gone from 26 weeks to 22 weeks, a reduction of 4 weeks (i.e. a month). That's a 15% difference.

That aside, your own words undermine you. By saying, "viability has not changed much since 50 years ago." supports my statement that it has changed. I never stated there was an amazing breakthrough.

No we did not go from 26 weeks to 22 weeks.

A few micro preemies have survived at 22 weeks gestation.
They are medical miracles and not the norm and the limit of viability ( where 50 percent of the premies survive ) is still 24 weeks gestation.
 
No we did not go from 26 weeks to 22 weeks.

A few micro preemies have survived at 22 weeks gestation.
They are medical miracles and not the norm and the limit of viability ( where 50 percent of the premies survive ) is still 24 weeks gestation.

Limits aren't defined by 50%, they are defined by the limit.
 
I just have to remind myself now and then not to feed the trolls or engage in exercises of futility. And that only an idiot argues with. . . .

I do think there have been some intelligent arguments on this thread re the issue of abortion, both on the pro choice and pro life sides. Wouldn't it be nice if the pro choice and pro life people could find a common ground on which to agree without either giving up the basic principles of their beliefs? I actually think that is possible except for all but the most extreme.

Start with not making statements that are 100% factually wrong and you'll have better success. :) Let me know if there are any other false statements of yours I can correct and I'll gladly help so you can participate in said intelligent and common ground conversations . You're welcome.
 
Last edited:
Limits aren't defined by 50%, they are defined by the limit.

Limit of viability is determined by 50 percent survialbilty , but each pregnancy viability may vary usually its between 23 to 25 weeks gestation and is individually determined by the doctor.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

In its opinion, the panel of three judges assigned to the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco wrote that a fetus’s viability “varies from pregnancy to pregnancy,” which should be determined by doctors, not legislators.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/u...rtions-struck-down-in-federal-court.html?_r=1


Survival rates

23 weeks gestation
Nearly 2 to 3 out of 10 survived (about 7 to 8 out of 10 died)

24weeks gestation
5 out of 10 survived (5 out of 10 died)

25weeks gestation
Nearly 8 out of 10 survived (about 2 out of 10 died)

What to Expect When You Have an Extremely Premature Infant: Healthwise Medical Information on eMedicineHealth
 
Last edited:
Not a concession, it's called being bored from reading too many illogical arguments.

Then you should look to your own positions because I merely turned them on their heads. And, again, you make general statements without doing the proper thing of pointing out why such things are illogical. You make no true counter-argument but just assert a bunch of "I'm right, because." on top of more "Because I'm right."

This is the norm for the pro-choice position because they generally hold contradictory or illogical positions. Have been positions and be consistent.
 
Limit of viability is determined by 50 percent survialbilty , but each pregnancy viability may vary usually its between 23 to 25 weeks gestation and is individually determined by the doctor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability

As determined by the courts for legal purposes but it is by no means, "the limit" for viability as your own link stated.

"As of 2006, the two youngest children to survive premature birth are thought to be James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada, at 21 weeks and 5 days gestational age),[20][21] and Amillia Taylor (born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestational age).[22][23] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation, as an IVF pregnancy. Both children were born just under 20 weeks from fertilization (or 22 weeks gestation). At birth, Taylor was 9 inches (22.86 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[22] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[22] As of 2013, Taylor was in kindergarten and at the small end of the normal growth curve with some developmental delays.[24]"

I keep running into this illogical position, when talking to pro-choicers. They seem to derive all of their morality from the law. Laws have historically, and demonstratively, been very poor premises to rest one's morality on.

How many immoral laws do you want me to list, that are obviously not moral and based devaluing of various segments of the population? Should I start with women's suffrage?
 
No problem but don't whine when prolife people actively oppose you every step of the way

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

They have no bearing on my choice if I were to get pregnant. Abortion is legal in my country and that is not about to change.
 
Are you suggesting men are smarter than women. Men unferstand how babies are made but women do not?

People who dont want babies should stick to anal sex. Thos eliminates the killing of unwanted children and spares the woman of a medical procedure that could prevent them from having children in the future.

Seems like a reasonable enough compromise

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Sorry, I'm not doing something that painful and that can ruin the sphincter just because some people don't like me having the option to terminate if I were to get pregnant.
 
For my assets

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

How could any woman possibly be hunting you for assets if all you do is have sex with them and leave? Why would anybody in their right mind waste their time trying to do so anyways?
 
Has it?

How the 'miracle' baby born two weeks before the legal abortion limit clung to life against all odds | Daily Mail Online

Here we have gone from 26 weeks to 22 weeks, a reduction of 4 weeks (i.e. a month). That's a 15% difference.

That aside, your own words undermine you. By saying, "viability has not changed much since 50 years ago." supports my statement that it has changed. I never stated there was an amazing breakthrough.

From the article:
Because this bright, beguiling toddler was born at just 21 weeks and six days into her gestation - a whole two weeks before the existing abortion cut-off.


Because of how it is worded, I'm guessing this not LMP and that it would be almost 24 weeks LMP.
 
As determined by the courts for legal purposes but it is by no means, "the limit" for viability as your own link stated.

"As of 2006, the two youngest children to survive premature birth are thought to be James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada, at 21 weeks and 5 days gestational age),[20][21] and Amillia Taylor (born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestational age).[22][23] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation, as an IVF pregnancy. Both children were born just under 20 weeks from fertilization (or 22 weeks gestation). At birth, Taylor was 9 inches (22.86 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[22] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[22] As of 2013, Taylor was in kindergarten and at the small end of the normal growth curve with some developmental delays.[24]"

I keep running into this illogical position, when talking to pro-choicers. They seem to derive all of their morality from the law. Laws have historically, and demonstratively, been very poor premises to rest one's morality on.

How many immoral laws do you want me to list, that are obviously not moral and based devaluing of various segments of the population? Should I start with women's suffrage?

And what point are you making?

As I stated a few premies have survived at about 22 weeks gestation.

0nly 1.3 percent of all abortions take place after 21 weeks gestation.

.3 percent ( that's point three ) take place because the the woman's life is at risk. ( either because irreparable damage to a major bodilily function will occur if the pregnancy continues or there was a rupture to the membranes and a life threatening infection could occur if the fetus is not removed in a timely manner.)

The other 1 percent occurring between 21 weeks and 24 weeks gestation is because of fetal malformations.
 
As determined by the courts for legal purposes but it is by no means, "the limit" for viability as your own link stated.

"As of 2006, the two youngest children to survive premature birth are thought to be James Elgin Gill (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada, at 21 weeks and 5 days gestational age),[20][21] and Amillia Taylor (born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestational age).[22][23] She was born on 24 October 2006 in Miami, Florida, at 21 weeks and 6 days gestation, as an IVF pregnancy. Both children were born just under 20 weeks from fertilization (or 22 weeks gestation). At birth, Taylor was 9 inches (22.86 cm) long and weighed 10 ounces (283 grams).[22] She suffered digestive and respiratory problems, together with a brain hemorrhage. She was discharged from the Baptist Children's Hospital on 20 February 2007.[22] As of 2013, Taylor was in kindergarten and at the small end of the normal growth curve with some developmental delays.[24]"

I keep running into this illogical position, when talking to pro-choicers. They seem to derive all of their morality from the law. Laws have historically, and demonstratively, been very poor premises to rest one's morality on.

How many immoral laws do you want me to list, that are obviously not moral and based devaluing of various segments of the population? Should I start with women's suffrage?

I was right, those are not LMP which is how pregnancies are generally dated.
 
Then you should look to your own positions because I merely turned them on their heads. And, again, you make general statements without doing the proper thing of pointing out why such things are illogical. You make no true counter-argument but just assert a bunch of "I'm right, because." on top of more "Because I'm right."

This is the norm for the pro-choice position because they generally hold contradictory or illogical positions. Have been positions and be consistent.

You have a wonderful imagination.
 
From the article:

Because of how it is worded, I'm guessing this not LMP and that it would be almost 24 weeks LMP.

No, it was in vitro.
 
And what point are you making?

As I stated a few premies have survived at about 22 weeks gestation.

0nly 1.3 percent of all abortions take place after 21 weeks gestation.

.3 percent ( that's point three ) take place because the the woman's life is at risk. ( either because irreparable damage to a major bodilily function will occur if the pregnancy continues or there was a rupture to the membranes and a life threatening infection could occur if the fetus is not removed in a timely manner.)

The other 1 percent occurring between 21 weeks and 24 weeks gestation is because of fetal malformations.

My point is, using these arbitrary settings, dictated by law, is a very poor basis for an argument.

And I'm perfectly fine with abortions for those reasons, and not even life at risk but even serious bodily harm. At that point, it's self-defense.
 
My point is, using these arbitrary settings, dictated by law, is a very poor basis for an argument.

And I'm perfectly fine with abortions for those reasons, and not even life at risk but even serious bodily harm. At that point, it's self-defense.

And I am too am fine with those settings.

Viability is a good gauge as doctors determine if a fetus is viable at/after the age the age of 20 weeks gestation before performing an abortion.
If the fetus is viable and the woman's life is at risk they will induce labor early or do a crash c section unless doing so puts the woman's life at greater risk than an abortion.
 
And I am too am fine with those settings.

Viability is a good gauge as doctors determine if a fetus is viable at/after the age the age of 20 weeks gestation before performing an abortion.
If the fetus is viable and the woman's life is at risk they will induce labor early or do a crash c section unless doing so puts the woman's life at greater risk than an abortion.

And, yes, I know that abortions that late in term, as rare as they are, are almost all for those reasons. And this is why I don't understand why someone says "for any reason at any stage" and takes issue with restrictions that only fall on those lines.
 
And, yes, I know that abortions that late in term, as rare as they are, are almost all for those reasons. And this is why I don't understand why someone says "for any reason at any stage" and takes issue with restrictions that only fall on those lines.

I think because we know Canada has no restrictions and yet late term abortions are still very rare.

The US has 4 or 5 states that have no restrictions and yet the numbers of abortions that late are not any greater than the state's with restrictions.

The no abortions past viability is a feel good law but I'm fine with it since it seems to help some feel better to know it is in place.
 
They have no bearing on my choice if I were to get pregnant. Abortion is legal in my country and that is not about to change.
Please... you have no bearing on how many easy women i inseminate eithier



Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
They have no bearing on my choice if I were to get pregnant. Abortion is legal in my country and that is not about to change.
For your sake i hope your right if the law ever chanhes its mind i hope your not stuck dealing with unreasonable people

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Sorry, I'm not doing something that painful and that can ruin the sphincter just because some people don't like me having the option to terminate if I were to get pregnant.
Dont have sex

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
How could any woman possibly be hunting you for assets if all you do is have sex with them and leave? Why would anybody in their right mind waste their time trying to do so anyways?
Thats the point
Im not worth your effort and your not worth mine

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
Dont have sex

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

You ought to post a poll asking men only if they are willing to only having anal sex to protect themselves from future child support from an unwanted pregnancy.

And you might consider taking your own advice.
 
Back
Top Bottom