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One Objection Versus A Second on Homosexuality

Clax thank you so much for sharing your story! I have to admit that my eyes welled up when reading about what Evan's parents did to his baby pictures. I simply can't imagine that happening to him, and it sounds like he was very lucky to find you - and collaterally, your parents.

I applaud you for being you. And I applaud your parents for weighing their love for you and realizing it outweighed everything else.

I can certainly understand your parents' concerns as it related to your happiness and well being. As a mother I also have the same concerns for my sons' futures. But in the end, we as parents must let our children decide what's best for them, and support those choices, which may not be our choices.

I hope you & Evan have many wonderful years together. It sounds like you will.
Thank you so much. Evan and I became foster parents of Evan's little brother, he is also homosexual and was done the same way, although much younger. It broke my heart that their parents did that to them but we were invited to his grand parents home, and they knew all about us. They haven't seen Evan in over ten years and were over joyed that he wanted to be part of their lives again. We are suing Evan's parents for child support, really hoping that they sign adoption papers, I don't want their money.

But Evan did a lot for me. I was not whole until I met him. I had been in relationships before, both as a novelty and a genuine lover, but nothing like this.

I don't see any end in sight.

Again thank you.
 
I don't think Caligula married a man. Just his sister (and some other women). There were 2 emperors who married men before Rome became a Christian state, but I can't remember who they were.

I think Nero was one and the other was sort of an inconnue.
 
I don't think Caligula married a man. Just his sister (and some other women). There were 2 emperors who married men before Rome became a Christian state, but I can't remember who they were.

Those "marriages" to men were strictly formalities, as I understand it, to make certain that it was understood they were favorites, and needed to be treated well. After all, who's going to give an Emporer a hard time about anything - if you expected to live past tomorrow? :mrgreen:
 
Thank you so much. Evan and I became foster parents of Evan's little brother, he is also homosexual and was done the same way, although much younger. It broke my heart that their parents did that to them but we were invited to his grand parents home, and they knew all about us. They haven't seen Evan in over ten years and were over joyed that he wanted to be part of their lives again. We are suing Evan's parents for child support, really hoping that they sign adoption papers, I don't want their money.

But Evan did a lot for me. I was not whole until I met him. I had been in relationships before, both as a novelty and a genuine lover, but nothing like this.

I don't see any end in sight.

Again thank you.

Good luck Clax! I hope you & Evan sort it all out. And maybe some day, before they die, Evan's parents will see the light. I hope that happens for everyone's sake.
 
Those "marriages" to men were strictly formalities, as I understand it, to make certain that it was understood they were favorites, and needed to be treated well. After all, who's going to give an Emporer a hard time about anything - if you expected to live past tomorrow? :mrgreen:

They were pretty vengeful with their punishments.;)
 
Good luck Clax! I hope you & Evan sort it all out. And maybe some day, before they die, Evan's parents will see the light. I hope that happens for everyone's sake.
Once again thanks. It took a long time to pick up those pieces. But any involvement in Evan's life will be by his choice.
 
Surely you joke. You are not aware of nonreligious objections to homosexuality?!!

No. I'm not joking at all.

Besides the fact that straight people think gay sex is "icky"..... what are the "nonreligious objections to homosexuality" ???

A short list of the top 5 or so objections would be great.
 
So all the hate mongering and gay bashing is religious!??

Yes all hate mongering and gay bashing is religious. Go ahead and point out one gay hate crime committed in the name of science. Point out one anti gay advocacy group that is not religious in nature.

and want secular scientific argument is there for the objection to homosexuality?

Science has established that homosexuality exist in over a 1,000 species all of which still exist in their natural habitats undisturbed by the presence of homosexuality in their species.

Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As of 1999, nearly 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, have been observed engaging in same-sex behaviors; this is well documented in about 500 species.

Including exclusive homosexual paring.

In most instances, it is presumed that the homosexual behavior is but part of the animal's overall sexual behavioral repertoire, making the animal "bisexual" rather than "homosexual" as the terms are commonly understood in humans,[18] but cases of homosexual preference and exclusive homosexual pairs are known

List of birds displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chilean flamingoes eating, drinking, and preening in St. Petersburg, Florida; flamingos (as well as penguins and other species) sometimes form committed same-sex relationships that can involve sex, traveling and living together, and raising young together.
Male Guianan ****-of-the-rock, distributed in the mountainous regions of Guyana, eastern Colombia, southern Venezuela, Suriname, French Guiana and northern Amazonian Brazil, "delight in homosexuality" with almost 40 percent engaging in a form of homosexual activity and a small percentage never copulating with females.

Male penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and to use a stone as a surrogate egg in nesting and brooding. In 2004, the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one male couple's stone with a fertilized egg, which the couple then raised as their own offspring.[63] German and Japanese zoos have also reported homosexual behaviour among their penguins. This phenomenon has also been reported at Kelly Tarlton's Aquarium in Auckland, New Zealand. "Humans have created the myth that sexuality can be justified only by reproduction, which by definition limits it to hetero sex," says Michael Bronski, author of The Pleasure Principle: Culture, Backlash, and the Struggle for Gay Freedom. "But here is an animal society that uses homosexuality to improve its social life."

Natural selection has not weeded Homosexuality out in all the 1,000s of years we have existed. So either it was a beneficial characteristic or it is so harmless that there are never any pressures against it.

Homosexuality has no baring on population, other than the possible theory that it exist to prevent overpopulation, though that seems unlikely since humans continue to breed at dangerously high rates. This imperative is compounded by the fact that homosexuality in all species occurs in a small minority of the population and has never impeded the growth of any species. There has never been a case in which a species was endangering it's self by being to widely gay.

There are in fact a few scientific theory for the evolutionary purpose of Homosexuality. Which would further establish it as not only a natural phenomenon but also a necessary one.

Male Homosexuality Can Be Explained Through A Specific Model Of Darwinian Evolution, Study Shows -- ScienceDaily

Potential evolutionary role for same-sex attraction -- ScienceDaily

The last refuge is the notion that homosexuality prevents procreation, which is a false claim. Homosexuals, men or women, are completely capable of producing offspring naturally. Both gay men and women have fully functioning reproduction organs. If for whatever reason everyone in the entire world was homosexual, there would still be not a single rational reason to assume we would all die out. If it was imperative to keep the species alive we could easily still create more humans within the practice of conventional intercourse. The only reason that silly strawman is ever used is because people are not aware of the differences between sexual reproduction, sexual behavior, and sexual orientation all of which are distinguished from each other, all of which work independently of each other.

There is literally nothing. Are you suggesting that there is? Are you suggesting that you don't merely have a uneducated opinion that you will post but a substantiated sourced argument with compelling scientific evidence for why homosexuality is inherently wrong?
 
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Natural selection has not weeded Homosexuality out in all the 1,000s of years we have existed. So either it was a beneficial characteristic or it is so harmless that there are never any pressures against it.

Natural selection rarely weeds any undesirable trait completely, especially in diploid life forms. Look up the history of the Peppered Moth native to Britain.

Less than 4% of the population is about as close to “weeded out” as we can ever really expect.

Obviously, homosexuality is not a positive trait; otherwise it would be much more comon.
 
Natural selection rarely weeds any undesirable trait completely, especially in diploid life forms. Look up the history of the Peppered Moth native to Britain.

Less than 4% of the population is about as close to “weeded out” as we can ever really expect.

Obviously, homosexuality is not a positive trait; otherwise it would be much more comon.

It can be a positive trait, but in general, it is really a neutral trait since it does not detract from any real need of the human race or individuals at all.
 
It can be a positive trait, but in general, it is really a neutral trait since it does not detract from any real need of the human race or individuals at all.

The pairing up in marriage of men and women, the building of families upon this pairing, and the building of societies on the foundation of familiex, is a need of Mankind and of individuals. Homosexuality undermines and corrupts this.
 
The pairing up in marriage of men and women, the building of families upon this pairing, and the building of societies on the foundation of familiex, is a need of Mankind and of individuals. Homosexuality undermines and corrupts this.

So, catholic priests, nuns, and the pope undermine and corrupt mankind and individuals?????
 
The pairing up in marriage of men and women, the building of families upon this pairing, and the building of societies on the foundation of familiex, is a need of Mankind and of individuals. Homosexuality undermines and corrupts this.

Families are built in many ways and forms, including with same sex couples. You cannot prove that homosexuality "undermines and corrupts" anything. That is nothing but your personal opinion and it is unsupported by any facts at all.
 
So, catholic priests, nuns, and the pope undermine and corrupt mankind and individuals?????

That's a whole different topic. I'm not Catholic, and this is an area where I think that Catholicism has gone very badly wrong. But I'm really not interested in attacking Catholicism; and if I was, that would be for another thread.
 
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There is a religious objection to homosexuality and there is non-religious objectors, which is more "acceptable"?

For any objection to be 'acceptable' there needs to be some evidence of a reason for that objection....like some harm?
 
There is a religious objection to homosexuality and there is non-religious objectors, which is more "acceptable"?

I think they are both acceptable..There are atheists that are against homosexuality.
 
Natural selection rarely weeds any undesirable trait completely, especially in diploid life forms. Look up the history of the Peppered Moth native to Britain.

Less than 4% of the population is about as close to “weeded out” as we can ever really expect.

Obviously, homosexuality is not a positive trait; otherwise it would be much more comon.

Actually, if you understood biology and genetics, you would know just how ignorant and inaccurate this statement is.
 
The pairing up in marriage of men and women, the building of families upon this pairing, and the building of societies on the foundation of familiex, is a need of Mankind and of individuals. Homosexuality undermines and corrupts this.

Incorrect. Homosexuality has been proven to assist and be part of this. Once again, and as usual, you ignore information and prefer to present your biased ignorance on this topic.
 
I think they are both acceptable..There are atheists that are against homosexuality.

Religious reasoning or not, none of the reasons are sound when it comes to being against homosexuality. They are rely on faulty arguments/logic and "icky" feelings of some kind toward same sex relationships.
 
What exactly does that mean? Against homosexuality????
Please expand on that.

How can you be "against" people?

"I am against Eskimos." <-- does that make any sense at all?

I'm against Eskimos! All that nose-rubbing is disgusting and immoral. It's not natural and it serves no purpose in nature.
 
What exactly does that mean? Against homosexuality????
Please expand on that.

How can you be "against" people?

"I am against Eskimos." <-- does that make any sense at all?
My favorite is "I don't believe in homosexuality." Really, fool? We aren't the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. Belief isn't necessary!

:lol:
 
`
You are welcome to your opinions no doubt, but that still isn't going to stop the large group of god-fearing, married conservative heterosexuals trolling around at night secretly, for that man-meat you homophobics claim to be be so much against. Perhaps I should give you a refresher course on the amount of down-low males of your grouping who have already been busted but are desperate to keep these activities a secret.
`

Come on now. Don't you know that Ted Haggard is completely heterosexual. George Rekers s just needed that rent boy to pack his luggage.
 
What is a more acceptable objection to black people--a religious objection or a non-religious objection?
 
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