One God?

[DarkWizard12]

Your right, the majority of people against gay marriage are christians. I'm not arguing for THEM. I don't care about THEM! I may be religious but I'm an individualist, and guess what? My individual nature is not friendly with the idea of gay marriage. Sorry, nothing christian about that, just my individualism. x[

I don't mind disagreeing with them. I'm not the one to carry picket signs.

...you've got to be ****ing kidding me....

Gee, idk, could it be that voting is the most POWERFUL way a citizen voices his opinion in this democratic country?

Well, at least I'm not unusual. :doh

If following Pat Robertson and Falwell's view of christianity is the only way I can be a christian, then I'm an atheist then.


I can only be grouped in those ignorant generalizations, if there are people ignorantly making generalizations.

waiting......:roll:

 

[moe]

Writing an editorial/blog is vastly different than actually going to the poll and voting.

You said they voted against it and I noticed that none of them stated that they went out and voted against it. This is me being obtuse in kind. Pretty obvious eh? You likey?

So there are a few gays with an opinion. Would you say they are more or less than 1% of the gay community?

No what I said was there were gays who voted against gay marriage. I showed sites of politically active gays who were expressing their opinions against gay marriage.

Just curious, Are you going to Muslim sites and accusing them of gay oppresion? Just seems to me considering the muslims have just about 0 flexibility in their beliefs that close to 100% of muslim voters most likely voted no also.

Moe

 

[moe]

Israel \i-srael, is-rael\ is pronounced IS-rah-el. It is of Hebrew origin. Possibly "God perseveres, contends". Biblical: when Jacob, son of Isaac, was in his nineties, God changed his name to Israel as a token of blessing. His 12 sons became the ancestors of the Israelite nation.

Monk Eye seems much more informed on this than myself. I think I will let him continue in that part of the discussion.

If it turns out we are wrong then we are wrong. No big deal. That is how you learn. But I read Monks link and I am even more convinced that we are right than before.

Although I agree with Monk that the name is syncretic I think his conclusions as to why are different than mine.
Moe

 

[Monk-Eye]

Phoenix

"Phoenix"

And still nothing that indicates that the word ISRAEL comes from ISIS, RA and EL. But thanks for trying.

Wisdom directs that it is a game to some to deny any proof.
The intuition and knowledge necessary to convince another that there is definitive proof either way may be lacking in the first place, as it seems the languages are in large part "tongue-in-cheek".

El (god)
In the Levant as a whole, Eli or Izer was the supreme god, the father of humankind and all creatures and the husband of the goddess Asherah as attested in the tablets of Ugarit.

Now יש (i)sh - shaddai, as suggested, may be a reference to asherah.
Harriet Lutzky has presented evidence that Shaddai was an attribute of a Semitic goddess, linking the epithet with Hebrew šad "breast" as "the one of the Breast", as Asherah at Ugarit is "the one of the Womb".[4] - Harriet Lutzky, "Shadday as a goddess epithet" Vetus Testamentum 48 (1998) pp 15-36.

Such that,
Asherah (ln)
In Ugarit
... may have been equated with the Milky Way. In those texts, Athirat is the consort of the god El;

In Israel and Judah
The goddess, the Queen of heaven whose worship Jeremiah so vehemently opposed, may have been Asherah or possibly Astarte. Asherah was worshipped in ancient Israel as the consort of El and in Judah as the consort of Yahweh and Queen of Heaven (the Hebrews baked small cakes for her festival):[2]

In Egypt
In Egypt, beginning in the 18th dynasty, a Semitic goddess named Qudshu ('Holiness') begins to appear prominently, equated with the native Egyptian goddess Hathor.

Hathor (ln)
In Egyptian mythology, Hathor (Pronounced Hwt-Hor) (Egyptian for house of Horus) was originally a personification of the Milky Way, which was seen as the milk that flowed from the udders of a heavenly cow. Hathor was an ancient goddess, and was worshipped as a cow-deity from at least 2700 BCE during the second dynasty.

Later she was described as the wife of Ra, the creator whose own cosmic birth was formalised in the Ogdoad cosmogeny after his worship arose and displaced that of Horus. At that time images of Ra bear the eye motif. An alternate name for Hathor, which persisted for 3,000 years, was Mehturt (also spelt Mehurt, Mehet-Weret, and Mehet-uret), meaning 'great flood, a direct reference to her being the milky way.[citation needed]

Ogdoad Cosmogeny (ln)
Together the four concepts represent the primal, fundamental state of the beginning, they are what always was. In the myth, however, their interaction ultimately proved to be unbalanced, resulting in the arising of a new entity. When the entity opened, it revealed Ra, the fiery sun, inside. After a long interval of rest, Ra, together with the other deities, created all other things.

Egg variant
The first version of the myth[citation needed] has the entity arising from the waters after the interaction as a mound of dirt, the Milky Way, which was deified as Hathor. In the myth an egg was laid upon this mound by a celestial bird. The egg contained Ra. In the original version of this variant, the egg is laid by a cosmic goose.[citation needed]

Add given associtations with the remainder of the alphabet for the hebrew word for israel י ('שראל)

ר r?a implying head

א e? implying of an ox

ל l implying an ox goad, a cattle prod, "to" and "for",

associations with the astrological age of Taurus, and, the concept is not entirely without merit.

Asherah Pole (ln)
An Asherah pole is a sacred tree or pole that stood near Canaanite religious locations to honor the Ugaritic mother-goddess Asherah.[1]

It was also a symbol of worship of the Hebrew Goddess Asherah, the consort of Yahweh, during the time when the Hebrews followed the typical pattern of Levantine worship, focused on an Earth Mother and her snake consort.[2] The role of the Asherah reflected in the texts was likely rewritten and reinterpreted by the followers of Ezra, upon the return of the Jews from captivity and the writing of the Priestly text.[3] Though there was certainly a movement against goddess-worship at the Jerusalem Temple in the time of king Josiah, it did not long survive his reign, as the following four kings "did what was evil in the eyes of the Lord" (2 Kings 23:32, 37; 24:9, 19). Further exhortations came from Jeremiah.

References from the Hebrew Bible

Asherah poles are mentioned in the Hebrew Bible in the books of Exodus, Deuteronomy, Judges, the Books of Kings, the second Book of Chronicles, and the books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Micah. The term often appears as merely אשרה, (Asherah) referred to as "groves" in the King James Version and "poles" in the New Revised Standard Version; no word that may be translated as "poles" appears in the text. Scholars have indicated, however, that the plural use of the term (Asherahs, also Asherim or Asherot) provides ample evidence that reference is being made to objects of worship rather than a transcendent figure.[4]

The Hebrew Bible suggests that the poles were made of wood. In the sixth chapter of the Book of Judges, God is recorded as instructing the Israelite judge Gideon to cut down an Asherah pole that was next to an altar to Baal. The wood was to be used for a burnt offering.

The Hebrew Bible states that God hated Asherah poles; Deuteronomy 16:21, (NIV) reads: "Do not set up any [wooden] Asherah [pole]][5] beside the altar you build to the LORD your God." The record indicates, however, that the Jewish people often departed from this ideal. King Manasseh for example is said to have placed an Asherah pole in the Holy Temple. (2 Kings 21:7) King Josiah's reforms in the late 7th century BC included the destruction of many Asherah poles. (2 Kings 23)

Asherah poles in Biblical archaeology

Some Biblical archaeologists have suggested that until the 6th century BC the Jewish people had household shrines, or at least figurines, of Asherah, which are strikingly common in the archaeological remains.[6]

 

[Slippery Slope]

Re: Phoenix

"Phoenix"
Wisdom directs that it is a game to some to deny any proof.
The intuition and knowledge necessary to convince another that there is definitive proof either way may be lacking in the first place, as it seems the languages are in large part "tongue-in-cheek".



Add given associtations with the remainder of the alphabet for the hebrew word for israel י ('שראל)

ר r?a implying head

א e? implying of an ox

ל l implying an ox goad, a cattle prod, "to" and "for",

associations with the astrological age of Taurus, and, the concept is not entirely without merit.

Nothing you have quoted proves the origin of the name Israel. All you have done is taken bits of the word and made some connections which may or may not be valid. Similar to the way xians "interpret" scripture to fit whatever premise they are trying to promote.
I could take any word apart and make unsubstantiated claims of each piece's origin.

 

[Jerry]

Re: Phoenix

Nothing you have quoted proves the origin of the name Israel. All you have done is taken bits of the word and made some connections which may or may not be valid. Similar to the way xians "interpret" scripture to fit whatever premise they are trying to promote.
I could take any word apart and make unsubstantiated claims of each piece's origin.

Have you ever looked inside an NIV bible?

 

[Tucker Case]

Re: Phoenix

Have you ever looked inside an NIV bible?

So much easier to read, IMO. Here's a link for anyone interested:

NIV Bible

 

[Jerry]

Re: Phoenix

So much easier to read, IMO. Here's a link for anyone interested:

NIV Bible

Spicificly: BibleGateway.com - Version information: New International Version

The NIV differs significantly from King James in that the NIV's translation was performed by a independent credentialed and qualified groups of linguistic and stylistic scholars; where as the KGV was off of King James's memory.

Additionally, at every instance where a word or passage could have an alternative translation, all alternate translations are given with sources. This includes not only probable other translations of the word or phrase, but also whole passages which were left out of the final draft, with a source on where that passage came from and why it was left out.

To date, the NIV is the most credible translation due to the credibility, transparency, repeatability and falsifiability of the translational process.

So Slip, if you are going to expect people to accept your notion that the bible is inherently biased, you are going to have to first discredit every one who had a hand in it's translation one by one, then further offer what you believe to be the correct translations in demonstration of the NIV's bias.

Failing to do this means your argument is nothing more then partisan hyperbole at best.

 

[Slippery Slope]

Re: Phoenix

Spicificly: BibleGateway.com - Version information: New International Version

The NIV differs significantly from King James in that the NIV's translation was performed by a independent credentialed and qualified groups of linguistic and stylistic scholars; where as the KGV was off of King James's memory.

Additionally, at every instance where a word or passage could have an alternative translation, all alternate translations are given with sources. This includes not only probable other translations of the word or phrase, but also whole passages which were left out of the final draft, with a source on where that passage came from and why it was left out.

To date, the NIV is the most credible translation due to the credibility, transparency, repeatability and falsifiability of the translational process.

So Slip, if you are going to expect people to accept your notion that the bible is inherently biased, you are going to have to first discredit every one who had a hand in it's translation one by one, then further offer what you believe to be the correct translations in demonstration of the NIV's bias.

Failing to do this means your argument is nothing more then partisan hyperbole at best.

I didn't realize that the NIV gave their opinion on how the word Israel formed. Maybe you could quote that tid bit.

I have seen the NIV as well as the Amplified bible.

 

[Jerry]

Re: Phoenix

I didn't realize that the NIV gave their opinion on how the word Israel formed. Maybe you could quote that tid bit.

I have seen the NIV as well as the Amplified bible.

Your diversionary tactics will not work.

I did not address your point on the origin of the word Israel, I addressed your point on the people being able to impose their bias into the bible's translation: "Similar to the way xians "interpret" scripture to fit whatever premise they are trying to promote."

Your example is false, so as it was your logical support for your point, your point is basless.

 

[Slippery Slope]

Re: Phoenix

Your diversionary tactics will not work.

I did not address your point on the origin of the word Israel, I addressed your point on the people being able to impose their bias into the bible's translation: "Similar to the way xians "interpret" scripture to fit whatever premise they are trying to promote."

Your example is false, so as it was your logical support for your point, your point is basless.

So what you're saying is that xians no longer use any version of the bible except the NIV which gives them the interpretation that god actually wanted... Now that I've killed your attack I can move on to: you should try reading a post before you go off running your yap, I didn't say anything about "people being able to impose their bias into the bible's translation" There is a difference between translating words and interpreting meaning. :2wave:

 

[Jerry]

Re: Phoenix

So what you're saying is that xians no longer use any version of the bible except the NIV which gives them the interpretation that god actually wanted...

Just like no politician or scientist could ever twist science to support a global worming agenda

Now that I've killed your attack I can move on to: you should try reading a post before you go off running your yap, I didn't say anything about "people being able to impose their bias into the bible's translation" There is a difference between translating words and interpreting meaning. :2wave:

You totally ignored my attack, which is predictable.

Making sweeping generalizations like you did has yet to prove itself as a valid tool.

 

[Monk-Eye]

Sheep

"Sheep"

Nothing you have quoted proves the origin of the name Israel. All you have done is taken bits of the word and made some connections which may or may not be valid. Similar to the way xians "interpret" scripture to fit whatever premise they are trying to promote.
I could take any word apart and make unsubstantiated claims of each piece's origin.

Baal (ln)

Ba'al (pronounced: [baʕal]; Hebrew: בעל) (ordinarily spelled Baal in English) is a Northwest Semitic title and honorific meaning "master" or "lord" that is used for various gods who were patrons of cities in the Levant, cognate to Assyrian Bēlu. A Baalist means a worshipper of Baal.

"Ba'al" can refer to any god and even to human officials; in some texts it is used as a substitute for Hadad, a god of the rain, thunder, fertility and agriculture, and the lord of Heavens. Since only priests were allowed to utter his divine name Hadad, Ba'al was used commonly. Nevertheless, few if any Biblical uses of "Ba'al" refer to Hadad, the lord over the assembly of gods on the holy mount of Heaven, but rather refer to any number of local spirit-deities worshipped as cult images, each called ba'al and regarded by the writers of the Hebrew Bible in that context as a false god.

Common confusion over Ba'al

Because the word Ba'al is used as a common substitute for the sacred name Hadad, confusion often arises when the same word is used for other deities, physical representations of gods and even people.

Historically, this confusion was resolved in the nineteenth century as new archaeological evidence indicated multiple gods bearing the title Ba'al and little about them that connected them to the sun. In 1899, the Encyclopædia Biblica article Baal by W. Robertson Smith and George F. Moore states:

That Baal was primarily a sun-god was for a long time almost a dogma among scholars, and is still often repeated. This doctrine is connected with theories of the origin of religion which are now almost universally abandoned. The worship of the heavenly bodies is not the beginning of religion. Moreover, there was not, as this theory assumes, one god Baal, worshipped under different forms and names by the Semitic peoples, but a multitude of local Baals, each the inhabitant of his own place, the protector and benefactor of those who worshipped him there. Even in the astro-theology of the Babylonians the star of Bēl was not the sun: it was the planet Jupiter. There is no intimation in the OT that any of the Canaanite Baals were sun-gods, or that the worship of the sun (Shemesh), of which we have ample evidence, both early and late, was connected with that of the Baals ; in 2 Kings 23:5-11 the cults are treated as distinct.

/wiki/Ogdoad#Egg_variant

The first version of the myth[citation needed] has the entity arising from the waters after the interaction as a mound of dirt, the Milky Way, which was deified as Hathor. In the myth an egg was laid upon this mound by a celestial bird. The egg contained Ra. In the original version of this variant, the egg is laid by a cosmic goose.[citation needed]

Still the hermenuetics of the ogdoad cosmology fable above, implies that Hathor as /wiki/Asherah#In_Ugarit as the milky way, as Harriet Lutzky presented Shaddai as "the one of the Breast", as Asherah at Ugarit is "the one of the Womb".[4], gave rise to a sons from an egg within a mound is endearingly theatric, replicatively emulated.

/wiki/Hadad#Hadad_in_Ugarit

Haddad בעל הדד (in Ugaritic Haddu) was a very important northwest Semitic storm and rain god, cognate in name and origin with the Akkadian god Adad. Hadad is often called simply Ba‘al (Lord), but this title is also used for other gods. Hadad was equated with the Anatolian storm-god Teshub, the Egyptian god Set, the Greek god Zeus, and the Roman god Jupiter.

In religious texts, Ba‘al/Hadad is the lord of the sky who governs the rain and thus the germination of plants. He is the protector of life and growth to the agricultural people of the region. The absence of Ba‘al causes dry spells, starvation, death, and chaos.

Pheonix rises, again?

/wiki/Weak_anthropic_principle#Variants




The weak anthropic principle is the topic outstanding:
It is provisioned, what does that mean?

 

[Kernel Sanders]

Re: Sheep

And once again not one single part of your post in any way demonstrates that the hebrew word israel is a concatenation of the gods' names Isis, Ra, and El. I'm finished engaging since this has gone nowhere thusfar, and shows no indication of ever going anywhere. If you had any semblance of an argment you would have made it by now

 

[Monk-Eye]

Weak Anthropic Principle - Fertility

"Weak Anthropic Principle- Fertility"

And once again not one single part of your post in any way demonstrates that the hebrew word israel is a concatenation of the gods' names Isis, Ra, and El. I'm finished engaging since this has gone nowhere thusfar, and shows no indication of ever going anywhere. If you had any semblance of an argment you would have made it by now

The timeline as to when jacob is supposed to have changed his name to israel relative to the pantheon traditions would need to assimilated.


/wiki/Isis#Assimilation_of_Hathor

Assimilation of Hathor
When the cult of Ra rose to prominence he became associated with the similar deity, Horus. For some time, Isis intermittently had been paired as the wife of Ra. Since she was the mother of Horus, he then became the child of Ra as well. A merging of the two male deities resulted in Ra-Horakhty. Hathor had been paired with Ra as well in some regions and when Isis began to be paired with Ra, soon Hathor and Isis began to be merged in some regions also as, Isis-Hathor. Another variant occurred in the Ennead, with Isis as a child of Atum-Ra, making her become the child of Hathor since Hathor had become paired with Ra. This also led to the merger of Hathor and Isis frequently, because of common characteristics.

The goddess Isis was the first daughter of Geb, god of the Earth, and Nut, the goddess of the Overarching Sky, and was born on the fourth intercalary day. At some time Isis absorbed some characteristics of Hathor a powerful deity who was the mother of Horus. He represented the pharaohs and provided them with protection. In later myths about Isis, she had a brother, Osiris, who became her husband, and she then was said to have conceived Horus. Isis was instrumental in the resurrection of Osiris when he was murdered by Seth.

Ancient Egyptians believed that the Nile River flooded every year because of her tears of sorrow for her dead husband, Osiris. This occurence of his death and rebirth was relived each year through rituals. The worship of Isis eventually spread throughout the Greco-Roman world, continuing until the suppression of paganism in the Christian era.[3]

sons: planets, entities;
analogy: comparative, simile, metaphor;

 

[Monk-Eye]

Thraspf Kicker Took Names

"Thraspf Kicker Took Names"

"Weak Anthropic Principle- Fertility"
The timeline as to when isaac is supposed to have changed his name to israel relative to the pantheon traditions would need to assimilated.
/wiki/Isis#Assimilation_of_Hathor
sons: planets, entities;
analogy: comparative, simile, metaphor;

Latest excav.f.position: the /wiki/Sethian /wiki/Hyksos were expelled from lower egypt is analogous to - Osiris' Isis' Horus expelled Set..


Saturnalis, Judges:
/wiki/Set_(mythology)
/wiki/Saturnalia,
/wiki/Saturn_(mythology),
/wiki/Baal,
/wiki/Hadad
/wiki/Ashtart


/wiki/Shin_(letter),
/wiki/Shaddai,
/wiki/Asherah,
/wiki/Hathor,
/wiki/Horus,


/wiki/Cronus,
/wiki/El_(god),

/wiki/Osiris,
/wiki/Isis,
/wiki/Ra,

/wiki/Isis#Assimilation_of_Hathor,

/wiki/Gnosticism.


http://www.debatepolitics.com/religion-philosophy/40979-one-god-39.html#post1057852894
http://www.debatepolitics.com/religion-philosophy/40979-one-god-41.html#post1057854021

http://www.debatepolitics.com/religion-philosophy/40979-one-god-42.html#post1057854807
/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism#Shaddai,