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On this Fourth of July, Thomas Jefferson is weeping

Jango

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Everything he wrote is true and is happening in the U.S. nowadays. Sad, really.
 

Unitedwestand13

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instagramsci

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Thomas Jefferson would be weeping if he saw free black people. Why do we care what Thomas Jefferson would think?
 

instagramsci

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I doubt that.

Why are you being a race baiter?
Stating what I think Jefferson's reaction to the modern world would be like is race baiting now? :roll:
 

Republic Now!

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well at least we can take solace in the fact that we don't worship the founding fathers like gods, like the citizens city of Colombia do in the game bioshock infinite

link is a image in the game of a statue of "father jefferson"

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8530/8594510568_6e42774711_c.jpg
And we can take solace in the fact that we don't make important philosophical points with a game about shooting stuff.


Thomas Jefferson would be weeping if he saw free black people. Why do we care what Thomas Jefferson would think?

he [the king] has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, & murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.
Of course, no one spoke out against slavery until cool people like you came along.
 
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Bob Blaylock

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Thomas Jefferson would be weeping if he saw free black people. Why do we care what Thomas Jefferson would think?
I doubt that.

Why are you being a race baiter?
That's one of the standard far-wrong responses to just about any issue on which their side looks bad. It woudl be surprising for someone on the far wrong to respond in this thread without resorting to race-baiting, or some similar wrong-wing irrelevancy.
 

instagramsci

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Of course, no one spoke out against slavery until cool people like you came along.
He wasn't meaningfully against slavery. His positions were contradictory at best. Not to mention he thought black people were inferior and didn't want slaves to be freed for fear of slave rebellions.

And that he didn't recognize Haiti because it was a nation of freed slaves.
 

instagramsci

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That's one of the standard far-wrong responses to just about any issue on which their side looks bad. It woudl be surprising for someone on the far wrong to respond in this thread without resorting to race-baiting, or some similar wrong-wing irrelevancy.
I can provide sources on Jefferson's views.

And you can make an awkward attempt at being funny by using some 2nd grade-level wordplay.
 

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Stating what I think Jefferson's reaction to the modern world would be like is race baiting now? :roll:
Did I take your weeping wrong? Did you mean as a good thing, or disappointing to him?

If so, I'm sorry. Seen too many arguments where people try to make out founding fathers look bad for owning slaves.
 

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He wasn't meaningfully against slavery. His positions were contradictory at best. Not to mention he thought black people were inferior and didn't want slaves to be freed for fear of slave rebellions.

And that he didn't recognize Haiti because it was a nation of freed slaves.
I never claimed he was perfect, I'm just pointing out that your position that he would "weep to see free black people" is completely ridiculous since he openly advocated for such at a time when such advocacy was a detriment to him instead of an advantage.
 

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Jefferson would be weeping that conservatives misinterpret the constitution and try to rewrite history.





Judge Napolitano was pretty spot on though. Although, after Jefferson made his famous quotes about a standing army and having a revolution every twenty years, he himself endorsed a standing army to squelch rebellions almost as soon as he became president.
 

instagramsci

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I never claimed he was perfect, I'm just pointing out that your position that he would "weep to see free black people" is completely ridiculous since he openly advocated for such at a time when such advocacy was a detriment to him instead of an advantage.
It's not ridiculous. He didn't want black people to even live here.
 

gendolookin

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Jefferson would be weeping that conservatives misinterpret the constitution and try to rewrite history.





Judge Napolitano was pretty spot on though. Although, after Jefferson made his famous quotes about a standing army and having a revolution every twenty years, he himself endorsed a standing army to squelch rebellions almost as soon as he became president.
You are absolutely correct. I got over the founding fathers long ago. I even hate the term "fathers". There is even evidence that shows the possibility of the constitutional convention was a sort of coup.

The convention was supposed to amend the articles, that was their purpose. But instead they scrapped it and wrote something new. Forming a national government with incredible power. When they were forming the state conventions, there is evidence to show that they were packed with yes men. The "founding fathers" picked the men that would vote for the constitution.

So as I say often, like all governments, ours was no miracle. It was created by a small minority of men, to represent a small minority of men, and then enforced with violence until people accepted it. The Whiskey rebellion is just one example of this.

Government = the most successful gang within a geographic area. Currently the mexican government is being challenged for supremacy. If the cartels win, they will just take over the institution of government, and continue like normal.
 

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I doubt that.

Why are you being a race baiter?
Are you ashamed of US history? It's no secret Jefferson sired many slaves. A lot of slave descendents have his last name. But unlike instagramsci, I think he'd be happy they're free and slavery was finally abolished, don't you? Most of the forefathers really believed it would peacefully end ten or twenty years after the constitution was ratified and thats why they didn't put the word "slave" anywhere in the document. They didn't want that stain on their new found country. But alas, they could not foresee the invention of the cotton gin.
 

instagramsci

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he'd be happy they're free and slavery was finally abolished
Wrong.

He'd be disgusted that they still live here.
 

joG

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Lord of Planar

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Jefferson would be weeping that conservatives misinterpret the constitution and try to rewrite history.
Huh?

I see it the other way around.
 

Lord of Planar

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Moot said:
Are you ashamed of US history?
There are parts of our history I wish we didn't have.


Moot said:
It's no secret Jefferson sired many slaves. A lot of slave descendents have his last name. But unlike instagramsci, I think he'd be happy they're free and slavery was finally abolished, don't you?
Yes. I don't think he would be "weeping" because blacks are free. My response was a strong dislike to a posting that to me, suggested, he would be unhappy blacks were free:
Thomas Jefferson would be weeping if he saw free black people
 

Andalublue

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My response was a strong dislike to a posting that to me, suggested, he would be unhappy blacks were free:
Well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence to support the idea that Jefferson disliked the institution of slavery so much that he refused to benefit from it. His attitude seemed to have been, "Yes, it's a very bad thing, but until we ALL agree that it's a very bad thing we shouldn't do anything to stop it." He legislated against the international trade, but did nothing about domestic slavery.

You can't call him slavery's greatest advocate, but nor could you describe him as it's staunchest foe.
 

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Well, there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence to support the idea that Jefferson disliked the institution of slavery so much that he refused to benefit from it. His attitude seemed to have been, "Yes, it's a very bad thing, but until we ALL agree that it's a very bad thing we shouldn't do anything to stop it." He legislated against the international trade, but did nothing about domestic slavery.

You can't call him slavery's greatest advocate, but nor could you describe him as it's staunchest foe.
Yes, a common point. Now consider this. If your neighbors were cruel to the animals they own, and you liked animals, wouldn't you buy and save as many animals you could to treat them humanly? Jefferson was a good man, and the fact he owns slaves doesn't mean he should be guilty the negative connotations that goes with it.

Note. I was not implying blacks are like animals, but suggesting a more modern scenario.

Releasing slaves was also s difficult process after the civil war. I'm sure Jefferson had some foresight into possible difficulties.
 

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the thread was that jefferson would be weeping, becuase of government actions, and again i get a thread of slaves.

i mentioned in another thread republican government or mixed government which the constitution is, and i got slaves.
 
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