On Second Thought: Why Should Dems Seek Unity?

[eohrnberger]

The personality informs much about their actions. He lied his ass off. How's that one? Lying is a personality defect. And it caused a huge number of people to deny his loss and to attack the Capitol. In their own words, they were doing what 'he told' them.' 7 people dead.

He also admittedly, on tape, lied about the danger level of CV19. Hundreds of thousands dead unnecessarily.

I'd say personality matters.

(And yes, I did read your comment re: his policies.) IMO, that doesnt outweigh in the least the damage he did.

Fine. But those policies and the voters that support them aren't going anywhere, as the cited article calls out.

 

[Lursa]

Fine. But those policies and the voters that support them aren't going anywhere, as the cited article calls out.

I realize that. But let's face it, as long as he creates most of the jobs he claims he will, most of them will just be lying about their 'satisfaction' with his job performance. It'll drive the economy upward.

 

[Greenbeard]

The personality informs much about their actions. He lied his ass off. How's that one? Lying is a personality defect. And it caused a huge number of people to deny his loss and to attack the Capitol. In their own words, they were doing what 'he told' them.' 7 people dead.

He also admittedly, on tape, lied about the danger level of CV19. Hundreds of thousands dead unnecessarily.

I'd say personality matters.

(And yes, I did read your comment re: his policies.) IMO, that doesnt outweigh in the least the damage he did.

I like the criticism of taking issue with Trump’s personality, as if his shitty record is any better than his shitty personality. People could and have focused on his worst-since-Hoover jobs record, his worst-since-WWII body count, his failures on any number of domestic policy fronts. But he also sucks as a human being! Not just as a president. And as you point out, maybe not unrelated facts.

 

[Lursa]

I like the criticism of taking issue with Trump’s personality, as if his shitty record is any better than his shitty personality. People could and have focused on his worst-since-Hoover jobs record, his worst-since-WWII body count, his failures on any number of domestic policy fronts. But he also sucks as a human being! Not just as a president. And as you point out, maybe not unrelated facts.

He's a manipulative little bitch, he set the stage for defying the election results months ago, even as far back as 2016.

 

[j brown's body]

Just can't get past the personality issue, can you. Fact of the matter was the governance under the Trump administration was pretty good, and had gained support in the electorate.

​

Trump’s Support Is More About Policies Than Personality​

Anti-Trump conservatives think they are poised to take back the GOP. They are sorely mistaken.​

. . .​

There are, of course, voters in the thrall of Trump’s cult of personality, just as there were under Obama. But I have talked to a lot of Trump voters all over the country in the past several years, and most of them take a transactional view of Trump. They know he can be petty and vindictive, but they also know he has achieved wins on their issues — the ones listed above, not the Chamber of Commerce issues — that would have been impossible for the GOP to achieve before Trump.​

​

What exactly constitutes Trump’s political philosophy is hotly debated, with some people arguing he has none. But it’s actually very simple. Trump echoes almost exactly the 1990s politics of Ross Perot, Pat Buchanan, and the Reform Party. From Perot, he takes his skepticism on global trade, immigration, and foreign wars. From Buchanan, he borrows a unique and fearless willingness to fight against political correctness. These issues have always had a big constituency, just not previously one big enough to compete with the Democrats and Republicans. Now they are the Republicans.​

​

No Republican is going to have success running on sweetheart trade deals with China, more wars, and open borders. Culturally, GOP voters now demand leaders who call for active use of government power to fight against the excesses of transgenderism, leaders who refuse to sit by as their kids are called racist by their fifth-grade teachers.​

. . .​

Trump’s Support Is More About Policies Than Personality

Anti-Trump conservatives think they are poised to take back the Republican Party after he leaves office. They are sorely mistaken.

thefederalist.com

​

70M voters supporting those policies. Perhaps even more should they have representation by someone less mercurial.

This is a weird article. It refers to Trump's policies, but fails to mention any. It mentions Trump's skepticism of foreign trade, but his policies on foreign trade have been terrible. His attitude toward immigration, while harshly cruel, has done very little, if anything to deal with any of its problems. Fighting political correctness? Again, cruel policies that have virtually no impact on anyone's lives, other than those of its victims. The only thing these "policies" have in common is that they involve punishing scapegoats. Americans deserve more than this.

And that is, hopefully, a problem for Republicans going forward. The party is bankrupt of ideas. Trump has a talent for taking over and exploiting bankrupt entities and the GOP is no exception. Trump's done fine, but the entities? Not so well. So the party is reduced to echoing his hate and anger, and just attacking marginalized groups. It is true that this tactic is as old as the republic itself, but eventually, people wise up and recognize it for the thin gruel that it is.

If Biden is able to show Americans that government can make rather lives better, Republicans could be in serious trouble because the party simply has nothing positive to offer.

 

[Evilroddy]

As the GOP spirals further down the drain under the weight of Jewish space laser conspiracy theories and Donald Trump’s new role as Pope, I have no idea what it is the GOP is even offering up most Americans as a reason for us to want to unify with them.

• They have declared that any votes not cast with them are at worst fraudelent, and part of a massive international conspiracy to steal elections form them; at best they just shouldn’t count cause maybe someone voted illegally so all 81m gotta go. They’re talking about the rest of us. Not some imaginary group of outsiders. They now consider *Americans* illegal depending on the context of their argument.
• Conversely they have declared that all 74m votes for Trump are not only legitimate, but the only votes that carry or should carry any consideration in the formation of policy at all. Since losing the election, we have been regaled with one whine after another about what WE need to do to make THEM feel good about the state of things.
• Covid negotations: Okay, so the bill is “too big” to cons. Which parts? Which #’s are too big? Why? What’s the alternative? What good is bipartisanship if the idea is the GOP simply acts as a veto for legislation because they want to run on the government “failing” in 2 years?
• Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• They enabled a literal insurrection and to date have insisted it’s not their fault, no one is accountable, and let’s move on to blocking covid relief, can we please?

This “unity” stuff is meaningless now. GOP wants nothing to do with 2/3rds of the country other than to take our money and give it to Jared Kushner’s buddies.

Aunt Antifa:

Why let the most radical and ideologically warped Republicans set the terms for bipartisan unity. Do end runs around the nuts like House Minority Leader McCarthy, Senate Minority Leader McConnell et. al. and all the pro-Trump flotsam still sloshing about in Congress. Seek out and cooperate with the more rational Republicans and reward them with good compromises and some concessions while denying cooperation with the post-Trumpist dead-enders. Starve the nuts and work with the rational conservatives who are still in the GOP. Give real political power to the rational and marginalise as much as possible the wacky populists and the would-be insurrectionists. Then let the Republicans who are getting things done in good faith, reform and purge the nut-bars from their own ranks over the next four years. America will be a better place if the party in power rewards a loyal opposition and turns its back on an irrational and disloyal opposition. Make politics work for the best of both parties and by that for the best of America.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Bullseye]

It works for you because you never can actually respond to lefties.

Yeah, I do when they make an intelligent, rational post. Sadly the number of lefties that meet that bar is getting smaller and smaller.

 

[Bullseye]

Unity is quantifiable via policy. Unify at least X% of people as you pass these policies.

View attachment 67316178

Democracy dies when the people learn they can vote themselves benefits.

 

[eohrnberger]

This is a weird article. It refers to Trump's policies, but fails to mention any. It mentions Trump's skepticism of foreign trade, but his policies on foreign trade have been terrible. His attitude toward immigration, while harshly cruel, has done very little, if anything to deal with any of its problems. Fighting political correctness? Again, cruel policies that have virtually no impact on anyone's lives, other than those of its victims. The only thing these "policies" have in common is that they involve punishing scapegoats. Americans deserve more than this.

And that is, hopefully, a problem for Republicans going forward. The party is bankrupt of ideas. Trump has a talent for taking over and exploiting bankrupt entities and the GOP is no exception. Trump's done fine, but the entities? Not so well. So the party is reduced to echoing his hate and anger, and just attacking marginalized groups. It is true that this tactic is as old as the republic itself, but eventually, people wise up and recognize it for the thin gruel that it is.

If Biden is able to show Americans that government can make rather lives better, Republicans could be in serious trouble because the party simply has nothing positive to offer.

In 2 short weeks, the Biden administration's policies has needlessly forced large numbers to become unemployed, needlessly unemployed.
A rather odd definition of making people's lives better.

The first example of Biden's 'America and Americans last' public policy. Many more are sure to follow.

 

[Bullseye]

As the GOP spirals further down the drain under the weight of Jewish space laser conspiracy theories and Donald Trump’s new role as Pope, I have no idea what it is the GOP is even offering up most Americans as a reason for us to want to unify with them.

• They have declared that any votes not cast with them are at worst fraudelent, and part of a massive international conspiracy to steal elections form them; at best they just shouldn’t count cause maybe someone voted illegally so all 81m gotta go. They’re talking about the rest of us. Not some imaginary group of outsiders. They now consider *Americans* illegal depending on the context of their argument.
• Conversely they have declared that all 74m votes for Trump are not only legitimate, but the only votes that carry or should carry any consideration in the formation of policy at all. Since losing the election, we have been regaled with one whine after another about what WE need to do to make THEM feel good about the state of things.
• Covid negotations: Okay, so the bill is “too big” to cons. Which parts? Which #’s are too big? Why? What’s the alternative? What good is bipartisanship if the idea is the GOP simply acts as a veto for legislation because they want to run on the government “failing” in 2 years?
• Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• They enabled a literal insurrection and to date have insisted it’s not their fault, no one is accountable, and let’s move on to blocking covid relief, can we please?

This “unity” stuff is meaningless now. GOP wants nothing to do with 2/3rds of the country other than to take our money and give it to Jared Kushner’s buddies.

I don’t know how old you are but back in 2008 when Obama won and dragged commanding majorities into Congress include a virtually filibuster- proof majority in the Senate, political commentary was filled with “permanent Democrat majority” ecstasy. O-care passed without a sing Republican voting for it. Dems went crazy. Then 2010 happened: Dems lost 63 seats in the House and their hopes of ruling by filibuster was destroyed. At the end of Obama’s term Dems had lost aroung 1000 sets at all levels.

Oh, and THIS YEAR we were supposed to see a “Blue Wave” across all levels - how’d that work out?

 

[j brown's body]

In 2 short weeks, the Biden administration's policies has needlessly forced large numbers to become unemployed, needlessly unemployed.
A rather odd definition of making people's lives better.

Its foolish to judge the results of the policies before they have been implemented and had time to take effect.

This is still Trump's world we're living in. "Adrift" seems like an apt term for it.

 

[j brown's body]

I don’t know how old you are but back in 2008 when Obama won and dragged commanding majorities into Congress include a virtually filibuster- proof majority in the Senate, political commentary was filled with “permanent Democrat majority” ecstasy. O-care passed without a sing Republican voting for it. Dems went crazy. Then 2010 happened: Dems lost 63 seats in the House and their hopes of ruling by filibuster was destroyed. At the end of Obama’s term Dems had lost aroung 1000 sets at all levels.

Oh, and THIS YEAR we were supposed to see a “Blue Wave” across all levels - how’d that work out?

Obama wasted too much time trying to get bipartisan support, which you point out, never came.

 

[eohrnberger]

I realize that. But let's face it, as long as he creates most of the jobs he claims he will, most of them will just be lying about their 'satisfaction' with his job performance. It'll drive the economy upward.

In the first two weeks, the Biden administration's actions and policies have caused a great number of people to needlessly become unemployed.
Are you anticipating that these people will have high praise for Biden and his job performance?

The first example of Biden's 'America and Americans last' public policy. Many more are sure to follow.

 

[Bullseye]

Obama wasted too much time trying to get bipartisan support, which you point out, never came.

Bullshit; His first comment was “elections have consequences and I WON”.

 

[poweRob]

Bullshit; His first comment was “elections have consequences and I WON”.

Link that this was his "first comment".

 

[Lursa]

In the first two weeks, the Biden administration's actions and policies have caused a great number of people to needlessly become unemployed.
Are you anticipating that these people will have high praise for Biden and his job performance?

The first example of Biden's 'America and Americans last' public policy. Many more are sure to follow.

So? The govt doesnt owe you a job. They'll qualify for unemployment. And there will be more jobs to come, in healthier, greener, more sustainable industries. If someone doesnt like those choices, let them develop some other skills. Sounds like just one more 'govt dependency' to me.

Previously posted:

​

The govt is supposed to work on broad circumstances to generate a good economy, to provide an environment where industries and businesses can prosper...it doesnt owe individuals jobs. Esp. transient jobs. People need to figure out their own lives, trades, careers, and move somewhere there are jobs that wont wrap up in a yr or 2.​

​

And Biden has been clear that he's focused on getting off of fossil fuels and creating/developing more sustainable options AND jobs associated with those.​

​

 

[eohrnberger]

So? The govt doesnt owe you a job.

These were government jobs? I don't think so.

They'll qualify for unemployment.

So? These people had a good paying job already.

And there will be more jobs to come, in healthier, greener, more sustainable industries.

More Solyndra scandals are going to be coming.

If someone doesnt like those choices, let them develop some other skills. Sounds like just one more 'govt dependency' to me.

Because the government does such a great job at picking winners and losers. Yeah, right.

Previously posted:

​

The govt is supposed to work on broad circumstances to generate a good economy, to provide an environment where industries and businesses can prosper...it doesnt owe individuals jobs. Esp. transient jobs. People need to figure out their own lives, trades, careers, and move somewhere there are jobs that wont wrap up in a yr or 2.​

​

And Biden has been clear that he's focused on getting off of fossil fuels and creating/developing more sustainable options AND jobs associated with those.​

To date, this has been a typical political elite unfulfilled promise. In the mean time the US goes from being a net energy exporter to a net energy importer, paying the pricing whims of OPEC.

Sorry, but I'm seeing this public policy of Biden's as being distinctly NOT in America or American's best interests.

 

[Bullseye]

Link that this was his "first comment".

Seriously?

 

[Dayton3]

What if their leader is the lowest nut?

them either

 

[Dayton3]

The personality informs much about their actions. He lied his ass off. How's that one? Lying is a personality defect. And it caused a huge number of people to deny his loss and to attack the Capitol. In their own words, they were doing what 'he told' them.' 7 people dead.

He also admittedly, on tape, lied about the danger level of CV19. Hundreds of thousands dead unnecessarily.

7 people did not die from the capitol insurrection. When challenged you've provided no evidence those to suicides were attributed to the riot.

Which I'm pretty sure means you can't.

And hundreds of thousands of Americans would've died from Covid-19 no matter what President Trump or any other president did.

 

[Linc]

7 people did not die from the capitol insurrection. When challenged you've provided no evidence those to suicides were attributed to the riot.

Which I'm pretty sure means you can't.

And hundreds of thousands of Americans would've died from Covid-19 no matter what President Trump or any other president did.

It’s a coincidence those two cops committed suicide right after Trump tried to overthrow the govt.

Trump lied, hundreds of thousands died. At least his GOP got to do their insider trading.

 

[Dayton3]

It’s a coincidence those two cops committed suicide right after Trump tried to overthrow the govt.

Trump lied, hundreds of thousands died. At least his GOP got to do their insider trading.

You can't prove any direct link from Trump to "hundreds of thousands" dying. And as it has been shown to you more than once, police officer suicides are NOT UNCOMMON in the U.S.
.
This has been pointed out, yet you have refused (or are not able to) provide any evidence the two suicides have been connected to the riot in any way.

So put up or shut up.

 

[j brown's body]

7 people did not die from the capitol insurrection. When challenged you've provided no evidence those to suicides were attributed to the riot.

Which I'm pretty sure means you can't.

And hundreds of thousands of Americans would've died from Covid-19 no matter what President Trump or any other president did.

You've got to admit, with a more powerful strain coming in, Trump's policy of herd immumity borders on criminal neglect.

 

[Dayton3]

You've got to admit, with a more powerful strain coming in, Trump's policy of herd immumity borders on criminal neglect.

I wouldn't call anything Donald Trump had as a "policy".

 

[Dayton3]

You can't prove any direct link from Trump to "hundreds of thousands" dying. And as it has been shown to you more than once, police officer suicides are NOT UNCOMMON in the U.S.
.
This has been pointed out, yet you have refused (or are not able to) provide any evidence the two suicides have been connected to the riot in any way.

So put up or shut up.
Sorry, confused you with the liberal woman from Seattle.