• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Oldest Christian inscription naming JESUS as GOD

GET MORE FACTS

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

CONFIRM THE FACTS

Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.—Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005153
 

Who?

you know who?

he knows who, we all know who. who hoo that is who.

now you better watch yur back, i was just trying to say a few nice things.


but we can't have nice things here right?


.
 
Darby Holy Bible: “In (the) beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Documents of the New Testament, The: “In the Beginning there existed the Divine Reason, and the Divine Reason was with God, and the Divine Reason was God.”

Douay-Rheims Bible: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Emphasized Bible by J.B. Rotherham, The: “//Originally// was /the Word, And //the Word// was /with God; And /the Word/ was //God//.

Emphatic Diaglott, The: “In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with God, and the LOGOS was God.”

English Majority Text Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

English Jubilee 2000 Bible: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.”

English Version for the Deaf (a.k.a. Easy to Read Version): “Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was there with God. The Word was God.”

Geneva Bible, The: “In the beginning was the Worde, and the Worde was with God and that Worde was God.”

Godbey Translation of the New Testament: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

God’s Word (a.k.a. Today’s Bible Translation): “In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Great Bible (Cranmer 1539): “In the begynnynge was the worde, and the worde was wyth God: and God was the worde.”

Holman Christian Standard Bible: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Holy Bible in Modern English, The: “The WORD existed in the beginning, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God.”Inclusive Version, An: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Interlinear Bible (Greene): “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

International Standard Version: “In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

James Murdock’s Translation of the Syriac Peshitta: “In the beginning, was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.”

Jerusalem Bible, The: “In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the Word was God.”

John Wesley New Testament: “In the beginning existed the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”

King James Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

K leist-Lilly New Testament: “When time began, the Word was there, and the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.”

Knox Translation: “At the beginning of time the Word already was; and God had the Word abiding with him, and the Word was God.”

Lamsa Bible: “The Word was in the beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word.”

Lattimore New Testament: “In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.”

Letchworth Version in Modern English: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Living Bible: “Before anything else existed, there was Christ, with God. He has always been alive and is himself God.”

Living Oracles New Testament, The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
 
McCord’s New Testament Translation of the Everlasting Gospel: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Message, The (a.k.a. New Testament in Contemporary English): “The Word was first, the Word present to God, God present to the Word. The Word was God…”

Modern Reader’s Bible: “IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD: AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD: AND THE WORD WAS GOD.”

bullets
Modern Speech New Testament, The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Montgomery New Testament (Helen Brett Montgomery): “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.”

New American Bible: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New American Standard Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New Berkeley Version in Modern English, The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New Century Version: “In the beginning there was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New English Bible: “When all things began, the Word already was. The Word dwelt with God, and what God was, the Word was.”

New Evangelical Translation: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New International Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New Jerusalem Bible: “In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”

New King James: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New Life Version: “The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.”

New Living Translation: “In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was God.”

New Millenium Bible, The: “The Word already existed before the world was created. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New Revised Standard Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

New Testament: An Understandable Version, The: “The Word (already) existed in the beginning (of time). (Note: this is a reference to the preexistence of Jesus, See verse 14). And the Word was with God and the Word was (what) God (was).”

New Testament in Plain English: “In the beginning the Word of God was there. And the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.”

New World Translation (Jehovah’s Witnesses): “In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” Written in 1950 and not regarded as proper or acceptable.

Noli New Testament: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was by God, and the Word was God.”

Norlie’s Simplified New Testament: “The Word was in the beginning; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha, The: “Bereshis (In the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem (YESHAYAH 55:11; BERESHIT 1:1), and the Dvar Hasem was agav (along with) Hashem (MISHLE 8:30; 30:4), and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! (TEHILLIM 56:11(10); yn17:5; Rev. 19:13).”

People’s New Covenant, The: “In the original being the Word, or GOD-Idea existed; and the God-Idea existed in the at-one-ment with God; and the GOD-Idea was GOD-manifest.”

Phillips Revised Student Edition: “At the beginning God expressed himself. That personal expression, that word, was with God, and was God…”
 
Recovery Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible: “Originally was the Word, and the Word was with YAHVAH; and the Word was YAHVAH.”

Revised English Bible: “In the beginning the Word already was. The Word was in God’s presence, and what God was, the Word was.”

Revised Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Revised Standard Version: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Riverside New Testament: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition, The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Yahweh, and the Word was Elohim.”

Scholars Version: “In the beginning there was the divine word and wisdom. The divine word and wisdom was there with God, and it was what God was.”

Scriptures (ISR), The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim.”

Shorter Bible, The: “In the beginning was the divine Wisdom, and the divine Wisdom was with God, and the divine Wisdom was God.”

Spencer New Testament: “In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with God, and the WORD was God.”

Swann New Testament: “In the beginning was the TRUTH, and the TRUTH was with God, and God was the TRUTH.”

Today’s English New Testament: “In the beginning was the Logos. And the Logos was with God. And God was the Logos.”

Today’s English Version (a.k.a Good News Bible): “Before the world was created, the Word already existed; he was with God, and he was the same as God.”

Twentieth Century New Testament, The: “At the Beginning the Word already was: The Word was with God; and the Word was God.”

Unvarnished New Testament, The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward God, and God was what the Word was.”

Versified Rendering of the Complete Gospel Story: “CHRIST, the Living Word, existed ere creation’s work began. He was with God, and He was God…”

Webster Bible, The: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Westminster Version of the Sacred Scriptures: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Weymouth New Testament: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

The Wyclif Translation (by John Wycliffe): “In the bigynnynge was the word and the word was at god, and god was the word…”

William Tyndale Translation: “In the beginnynge was the worde, and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.”

Williams New Testament: “In the beginning the Word existed; and the Word was face to face with God; yea, the Word was God Himself.”

World English Bible: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Worldwide English (New Testament): “The Word already was, way back before anything began to be. The Word and God were together. The Word was God.”

Worrell New Testament: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Wuest Expanded Translation: “In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity.”
 

GET MORE FACTS

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

CONFIRM THE FACTS

Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.—Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005153
The MESSIAH had taken on a human body and so they were not looking at GOD in HIS total form ---- since HE emptied HIMSELF.
 
Who?

you know who?

he knows who, we all know who. who hoo that is who.

now you better watch yur back, i was just trying to say a few nice things.


but we can't have nice things here right?


.
Abbott: Well, let’s see, we have on the St Louis team, Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know is on third…

Costello: That’s what I want to find out.

Abbott: I say Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know’s on third.

Costello: Are you the manager?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: You gonna be the coach too?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: And you don’t know the fellows’ names?

Abbott: Well I should.

Costello: Well then who’s on first?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: I mean the fellow’s name.
https://teachbesideme.com/whos-on-first-transcript/
 
Abbott: Well, let’s see, we have on the St Louis team, Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know is on third…

Costello: That’s what I want to find out.

Abbott: I say Who’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know’s on third.

Costello: Are you the manager?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: You gonna be the coach too?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: And you don’t know the fellows’ names?

Abbott: Well I should.

Costello: Well then who’s on first?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: I mean the fellow’s name.
https://teachbesideme.com/whos-on-first-transcript/

are you suggesting some of us are playing games here?

i know who is on first, that is me

you are on second

but where is Logic ? he started throwing rocks at me early now he gone and i wanna wish him fare well to whatever else he considers for this nice weekend.

he might be out shopping for a Bible and come back preaching at all of us.


blessings @Logician Man wherever you may be.


.
 

GET MORE FACTS

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.

For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter 1, verse 18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

CONFIRM THE FACTS

Think again about the example of the schoolteacher and the students. Imagine that some still have doubts, even after listening to the teacher’s additional explanation. What could they do? They could turn to another teacher for further information on the same subject. If the second teacher confirms the explanation of the first one, the doubts of most students may be put to rest. Similarly, if you are not sure what the Bible writer John was really saying about the relationship between Jesus and Almighty God, you could turn to another Bible writer for further information. Consider what was written by Matthew, for example. Regarding the end of this system of things, he quotes Jesus as saying: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

As you continue your Bible studies, you will become familiar with many more Bible passages that have a bearing on this subject. They confirm the truth about the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit.—Psalm 90:2; Acts 7:55; Colossians 1:15.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005153
Greek was the common language back in the day, just as English is the common language today. Even many Romans learned Greek ---- particularly merchants and seamen.
 
is this down to picking who is God ? Given a choice is it the OT God or is Christ/Trinity of the NT ?
 
Greek was the common language back in the day, just as English is the common language today. Even many Romans learned Greek ---- particularly merchants and seamen.
Duh...tell me something I don't know...
 
is this down to picking who is God ? Given a choice is it the OT God or is Christ/Trinity of the NT ?
The "Trinity" issue does seem to have been the #1 hot topic being discussed for an extended period of time, especially within the Christian community. There's even been allegations of practicing "False Religions" within/between non-trinitarian and trinitarian Christians.

What names/titles are appropriate when referring to the Christian God also seems to be an oft discussed/debated issue within the Christian community as well as precisely what "Hell" is, and what does and does not happen there after one passes from this earth.
 
Greek was the common language back in the day, just as English is the common language today. Even many Romans learned Greek ---- particularly merchants and seamen.
Koine Greek was a common language bridging several Greek dialects, which spread across the Eastern Mediterranean. Jesus probably spoke a dialect of Aramaic. The Hellenistic period. during which Koine Greek was widely used ended 30 years before Jesus' birth.
 
is this down to picking who is God ? Given a choice is it the OT God or is Christ/Trinity of the NT ?
Absolutely not!

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to completely understand it or explain it. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. But we do trust the Bible, which teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. At the same time, the Bible also teaches there is only one God. So, the one God exists in three Persons.

It’s possible to understand some facts about the Trinity and some of the relationships the different Persons of the Trinity have to one another. But, ultimately, how a single essence/being can exist in three distinct Persons is incomprehensible to us. Our inability to understand, however, does not mean the doctrine of the Trinity is untrue or unbiblical.

The word Trinity is not found in Scripture. It is a useful term in discussions of the triune God, as we speak of three coexistent, co-eternal divine Persons who are One. Although the word itself is not found in the Bible, the concept represented by the word Trinity certainly is. Here is some of what God’s Word says about the Trinity:

1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5). So, a belief in the Trinity is not a belief in three gods.

2) The one God exists in three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16–17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). A common Old Testament Hebrew name for God is Elohim, a plural noun. Some passages quote God as speaking of Himself with plural pronouns such as us (Genesis 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8) While the use of plural words is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote an aspect of plurality in God. The name Elohim, being plural, definitely allows for a tri-unity. Please see the bottom of #43 to see where this originated.
 
Last edited:
Another Old Testament implication of the Trinity is found in Isaiah 48:16: “And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me, endowed with his Spirit.” In this verse, we have three persons referenced: the Lord (Yahweh), the Spirit, and the speaker (“me”), who in this context is the Messiah.

Also, consider Isaiah 61:1:

The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.

According to Luke 4:16–21, the “me” of Isaiah 61 refers to Jesus. So, in the span of one verse, we have a reference to the Lord (Yahweh), the Messiah, and the Spirit. In other words, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

In the New Testament, the Trinity is introduced in Matthew 3:16–17 during Jesus’ baptism:

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” Please see the bottom of #43 to see where this originated.
 
Last edited:
In the span of two verses, we have the voice from heaven, Jesus, and the dove. In other words, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. See also Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14.

3) The Persons of the Trinity are distinguished from one another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “Lord” is distinguished from “Lord” (Psalm 110:1). And we learn that the Lord has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2–4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “Lord” (Isaiah 48:16) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10–12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6–7; Hebrews 1:8–9). In one of His prayers, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending the Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16–17). So, Jesus did not consider Himself to be either the Father or the Holy Spirit. There are many other instances when Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He talking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—the Father.

4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3–4; 1 Corinthians 3:16). Each Person has all the qualities of divinity, eternally and unchangingly. The three Persons of the Godhead share the same nature and essence.

5) There is subordination within the Trinity. The Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son, and the Son is sent by the Father. This economic (or relational) hierarchy does not negate or diminish the deity of any Person of the Trinity. It is simply something else our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son, see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit, see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13–14.

6) The individual Persons of the Trinity have different roles. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11), divine revelation (Revelation 1:1), salvation (John 3:16–17), and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things. Please see the bottom of #43 to see where this originated.
 

Attachments

  • 1749866924610.webp
    1749866924610.webp
    24.3 KB · Views: 0
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16–17), divine revelation (John 1:1; 16:12–15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1), and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30), divine revelation (John 16:12–15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21), salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2), and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). The Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.

There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God; each of them is God. Another illustration sometimes put forward is of a man who is simultaneously a husband, a father, and a brother. The inaccuracy of this illustration is seen in that the man is still only one person, regardless of his role or how many relationships he has. God is three Persons. In the end, no illustration will give us a true picture of the Trinity. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.

God has revealed Himself as triune. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. “Great is the Lord and most worthy of praise; his greatness no one can fathom” (Psalm 145:3). The View attachment 67574573 above came from GOT QUESTIONS found here: https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
 
Koine Greek was a common language bridging several Greek dialects, which spread across the Eastern Mediterranean. Jesus probably spoke a dialect of Aramaic. The Hellenistic period. during which Koine Greek was widely used ended 30 years before Jesus' birth.
I'm sure that JESUS understood all languages. I mean HE could confound the teachers of the LAW when HE was just 12.
 
The "Trinity" issue does seem to have been the #1 hot topic being discussed for an extended period of time, especially within the Christian community. There's even been allegations of practicing "False Religions" within/between non-trinitarian and trinitarian Christians.

What names/titles are appropriate when referring to the Christian God also seems to be an oft discussed/debated issue within the Christian community as well as precisely what "Hell" is, and what does and does not happen there after one passes from this earth.
If you saw my postings of all the Bible translations of JOHN 1:1, you should have noted that the only version of the Bible not to come right out and declare that the WORD equals CHRIST isn't in fact GOD, was the New World Translation that is the "JEHOVAH's Witnesses version. ALL other versions read: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD. That implication alone should make it very clear...
 
Jesus also showed that he was separate from God. Jesus once said to opposers who challenged his authority: “In your own Law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” (John 8:17, 18) Jesus must be separate from Jehovah. How else could they be viewed as two witnesses?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012242#h=10:0-10:368

Was Jesus lower than God only while he was a man here on earth? No. Even after his death and resurrection, Jesus is described in the Bible as being subordinate to God. The apostle Paul reminds us that “God is supreme over Christ.” (1 Corinthians 11:3, Today’s English Version) The Bible says that in the future “when all things have been placed under Christ’s rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.”—1 Corinthians 15:28, TEV.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009083#h=11:0-11:521


The Trinity—Whose Teaching?

What, then, about the teaching that Jehovah and Jesus are, in effect, the same God, as the Trinity doctrine proclaims? In its issue of April-June 1999, The Living Pulpit magazine defined the Trinity this way: “There is one God and Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Spirit, three ‘persons’ . . . who are the same or one in essence . . . ; three persons equally God, possessing the same natural properties, yet really distinct, known by their personal characteristics.”

The Athanasian Creed, formulated a few hundred years after the death of Jesus, defined the Trinity this way: “The Father is God: the Son is God: and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods: but one God.”

Where did this complex Trinity teaching originate? The Christian Century, in its May 20-27, 1998, issue, quotes a pastor who acknowledges that the Trinity is “a teaching of the church rather than a teaching of Jesus.” Even though the Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus, is it consistent with what he taught?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102005282

Was Jesus Considered to Be God?

WHILE Jesus is often called the Son of God in the Bible, nobody in the first century ever thought of him as being God the Son. Even the demons, who “believe there is one God,” knew from their experience in the spirit realm that Jesus was not God. So, correctly, they addressed Jesus as the separate “Son of God.” (James 2:19; Matthew 8:29) And when Jesus died, the pagan Roman soldiers standing by knew enough to say that what they had heard from his followers must be right, not that Jesus was God, but that “certainly this was God’s Son.”—Matthew 27:54.

Hence, the phrase “Son of God” refers to Jesus as a separate created being, not as part of a Trinity. As the Son of God, he could not be God himself, for John 1:18 says: “No one has ever seen God.”
RS,
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989304
 
If you saw my postings of all the Bible translations of JOHN 1:1, you should have noted that the only version of the Bible not to come right out and declare that the WORD equals CHRIST isn't in fact GOD, was the New World Translation that is the "JEHOVAH's Witnesses version. ALL other versions read: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD. That implication alone should make it very clear...
I did read your post list, LN.

Below is something I saw elsewhere regarding what the JWO teaches/preaches to it's congregants about the Trinity and it's a pretty damning declaration against Trinitarian Christians. Here's the link to the article, and the damning accusation snippet contained within the article. I'm not familiar with the site, so each member can draw his/her own conclusions regarding the accusation being made against Trinitarian Christian Theology.

Who wrote the Jehovah Witness Bible and when? - Answers

Especially: I John 5:7 -- A vitally important phrase that was completely removed. In the Jehovah's Witness "New World Translation" it says, "For there are three witness bearers". The original Greek and the Christian Bible states: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This is one of the greatest verses testifying of the trinity. That is why the Jehovah's Witnesses leave it out. They do not believe in the trinity and they do not believe that Jesus is God.

Of course JWs would have us believe that their 'scripture' is right and the others wrong and that Trinitarian theology is wrong and a work of Satan (as they believe it is).
 
Last edited:
1 John 5:7, as found in some English translations (like the King James Version), states, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This verse, however, is debated for its authenticity and inclusion in most early Greek manuscripts.

Elaboration:

Context:

This verse is part of a section in 1 John where the author is discussing the evidence for Jesus being the Son of God.

The "Three Witnesses":
The verse mentions three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. It's followed by the statement that "these three are one".

Debate and Authenticity:
While this verse is found in some English translations (like the King James Version), it's considered a later addition and does not appear in the earliest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.

Scholarly Consensus:
Most scholars believe it was added to the text later, likely as a Latin addition that was later incorporated into Greek manuscripts.


Alternative Readings:
Modern translations often omit this phrase or render it differently, acknowledging the lack of support for it in the earliest manuscripts.

Google
 
1 John 5:7, as found in some English translations (like the King James Version), states, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." This verse, however, is debated for its authenticity and inclusion in most early Greek manuscripts.

Elaboration:

Context:
This verse is part of a section in 1 John where the author is discussing the evidence for Jesus being the Son of God.

The "Three Witnesses":
The verse mentions three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. It's followed by the statement that "these three are one".

Debate and Authenticity:
While this verse is found in some English translations (like the King James Version), it's considered a later addition and does not appear in the earliest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament.

Scholarly Consensus:
Most scholars believe it was added to the text later, likely as a Latin addition that was later incorporated into Greek manuscripts.


Alternative Readings:
Modern translations often omit this phrase or render it differently, acknowledging the lack of support for it in the earliest manuscripts.

Google
Seems a rather questionable reason to totally disregard it. Even JESUS admitted that HE and the FATHER in heaven were ONE.
 
Seems a rather questionable reason to totally disregard it. Even JESUS admitted that HE and the FATHER in heaven were ONE.
You do realize Jesus was not talking in a literal sense but what Jesus meant was they were both united in thought/deed...he says exactly that on down in the same chapter of John...

"If I am not doing the works of my Father, do not believe me.But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father." John 10:37,38

We know he did not mean they were literally one and he also gives his position in regard to his Father in heaven as well, because Jesus also said...

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him." John 1:18
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom