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old guy - to young guy. did not know it was rap in the 60's - is it a rap baby?

Skeptic Bob

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Hmmm, interesting question. I wouldn’t call it rap but I’m not sure why not.
 

Xelor

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do not judge - listen. can this guy string together words?
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYajHZ4QUVM

Umm...I'm not sure what your point is.

To people like me (~60 years old), "rap" means "to talk freely and frankly." That same meaning aptly characterizes rap music, songs wherein the "lyricist" talks rather/more so than sings. Indeed, "back in the day," one of the so-called criticisms levied at rap/rappers was "that's not singing," which, of course, was an accurate statement.

Rap, at its core, is but spoken, rather than sung, poetry delivered with musical accompaniment. That is what the artist in your video is doing too, so, sure, if you want to call it "rap" in a narrative that compares it to modern rap, it's okay to call it rap; however, in a narrative that compares it with modern rap, it'd be errant to do so, for in such a discussion, classifying that piece "rap" is to conflate it with something it is not by tacitly conferring to it a cultural context it lacks.
 

rjay

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Umm...I'm not sure what your point is.

To people like me (~60 years old), "rap" means "to talk freely and frankly." That same meaning aptly characterizes rap music, songs wherein the "lyricist" talks rather/more so than sings. Indeed, "back in the day," one of the so-called criticisms levied at rap/rappers was "that's not singing," which, of course, was an accurate statement.

Rap, at its core, is but spoken, rather than sung, poetry delivered with musical accompaniment. That is what the artist in your video is doing too, so, sure, if you want to call it "rap" in a narrative that compares it to modern rap, it's okay to call it rap; however, in a narrative that compares it with modern rap, it'd be errant to do so, for in such a discussion, classifying that piece "rap" is to conflate it with something it is not by tacitly conferring to it a cultural context it lacks.

so artistry and poetry mean fck all in rap world? Thanks for the insight. glad you could contribute.
 

Xelor

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Umm...I'm not sure what your point is.

To people like me (~60 years old), "rap" means "to talk freely and frankly." That same meaning aptly characterizes rap music, songs wherein the "lyricist" talks rather/more so than sings. Indeed, "back in the day," one of the so-called criticisms levied at rap/rappers was "that's not singing," which, of course, was an accurate statement.

Rap, at its core, is but spoken, rather than sung, poetry delivered with musical accompaniment. That is what the artist in your video is doing too, so, sure, if you want to call it "rap" in a narrative that compares it to modern rap, it's okay to call it rap; however, in a narrative that compares it with modern rap, it'd be errant to do so, for in such a discussion, classifying that piece "rap" is to conflate it with something it is not by tacitly conferring to it a cultural context it lacks.

so artistry and poetry mean fck all in rap world? Thanks for the insight. glad you could contribute.
Blue:
What? Can you present your question in standard English, please. I may then be able to answer it.

Red:
You're welcome.
 

rjay

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Blue:
What? Can you present your question in standard English, please. I may then be able to answer it.

Red:
You're welcome.

I will start with an apology
- are you allowed to do that on DP?

I reacted to something I read into your comments that was not there.

I was rude. I try to be respectful. I let myself down.

I know you as a thoughtful respond-er to OP topics.

lets start over.
 

Xelor

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I will start with an apology
- are you allowed to do that on DP?

I reacted to something I read into your comments that was not there.

I was rude. I try to be respectful. I let myself down.

I know you as a thoughtful respond-er to OP topics.

lets start over.

TY for the apology, and I accept it.
 

Xelor

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Hmmm, interesting question. I wouldn’t call it rap but I’m not sure why not.

I would posit that the cultural exigencies that gave rise to the music genre we think of as rap simply don't exist in the song the OP-er presented. Dylan's ditty has more in common with Maya Angelou's verse than it does with rap, and both are more alike each other than they are similar to rap. Dylan's song, plenty of Angelou's rhymes and rap share, however, a common a connection with Beat (Beatnik) poetry of the 1960s. Like rap songs, the lyrics are more important than is the music.


Perhaps most notably different between "It's Alright, Ma" and rap is the musical accompaniment: owing to its Afro-Caribbean roots, rap, be it "old school" or modern, is very rhythm (drum beat and bass beat) dependent, making it "easy to dance to," as Bandstanders would have said, whereas Dylan's score isn't at all about the beat and it make no dance-related pretenses. Another differentiating quality is that though there is clearly a meter to Dylan's lyrical delivery just as there is in rap, the meter isn't the signature element that makes "Dylan Dylan," whereas the "flow" is a rapper's calling card, as it were.


I understand your uncertainty regarding your certainty about why Dylan's song didn't strike you as rap. I listened to it and innately knew it wasn't, but it took me a few moments of thinking about the nature of rap music, a few forms of poetry, and, of course, the specific Dylan song before I could put into words what was implicitly obvious to me. Had the OP-er not asked the question, I wouldn't ever have bothered to articulate my comprehension of the similarities and difference, yet, I'd have known damn well that Dylan's song is rap-like, yet not rap.
 
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