Ohio judge strikes down parts of state's 6-week abortion ban

[Cosmo]

Lots of information available if you aren't to lazy to look! You can even see which deep red states have actually already asked their citizens this question, and had decisive replies. Want to guess what those replies said??

You're shifting the burden of proof. Where is a comprehensive list of abortion referendums and their results?

Meantime, the people are stuck with laws they don't want until the legislators come up for re-election. You still haven't answered why they won't take such a divisive issue to referendum at the pending elections?

How would I know? I suspect it varies from state to state.

 

[Cosmo]

Ten states are holding referundums this Roevember

Tell Ishm. He says they're not doing referendums.

 

[weaver2]

Tell Ishm. He says they're not doing referendums.

Apologies, I don't know what form the issue takes in each sate. I should have said 10 states have abortion on the ballot.

 

[Cosmo]

Apologies, I don't know what form the issue takes in each sate. I should have said 10 states have abortion on the ballot.

Well, if that's true, then it sounds like he's overreacting.

 

[Ishm]

You're shifting the burden of proof. Where is a comprehensive list of abortion referendums and their results?

I've got nothing to prove. You asked the question, and I said look up your own answers because the information is so easily available if you aren't too lazy to search for it. Hint - it'll take anyone competent about 30 seconds to find.

How would I know? I suspect it varies from state to state.

So you are saying you don't know, but still feel free to argue that I am wrong? So you are arguing from a position of ignorance. Sounds about right!

Tell Ishm. He says they're not doing referendums.

I said that some states are not taking referendums, and that they are 'undemocratic' for not doing so. This is 100% accurate. There are I think 9 x citizen demanded referendums for Nov where they have met the state rules for forcing the referendums, and at least a couple of others driven by the states legislation in some way. That's 9 states where they so dislike what the legislators have done that they have forced, sometimes against fierce competition from the legislators, the issue onto the ballot. What's your guess about how many states see their extreme abortion laws overturned after those referendums????

Once every state has put abortion to referendum in a fair and unbiased manner (no guarantee of that being true unfortunately) the arguments against that states rules mostly go away. At that point the people of that state have made a fair choice, and if you don't like it you need to move states or put up with it. Until there is a fair and unbiased public referendum however, that states rules are very open to criticism and accusations of legislative abuse.

 

[Boots]

Stay well and unaborted.

 

[Cosmo]

I've got nothing to prove. You asked the question, and I said look up your own answers because the information is so easily available if you aren't too lazy to search for it. Hint - it'll take anyone competent about 30 seconds to find.

You made this claim before I asked you any questions:

What the state legislatures are doing by forcing through legislation to satisfy their own personal beliefs, that they know damn well won't survive a public referendum

So stop with your ridiculous pretext for not providing substance to support your claim!

So you are saying you don't know, but still feel free to argue that I am wrong? So you are arguing from a position of ignorance. Sounds about right!

It all started with your claim about it not surviving a public referendum, for which you provided not a shred of proof.

I said that some states are not taking referendums, and that they are 'undemocratic' for not doing so. This is 100% accurate.

Have all the blue states had the referendum referendum?

There are I think 9 x citizen demanded referendums for Nov where they have met the state rules for forcing the referendums, and at least a couple of others driven by the states legislation in some way. That's 9 states where they so dislike what the legislators have done that they have forced, sometimes against fierce competition from the legislators, the issue onto the ballot. What's your guess about how many states see their extreme abortion laws overturned after those referendums????

I don't have a guess.

 

[JasperL]

It's in the hands of the states, which are led by their own democratically elected legislatures. That is far more democratic than legislating from the SCOTUS bench. That's literally half a dozen appointees deciding it for the entire country.

Not really, because the thing is when women have the right to make a choice, women make the decision, for themselves.

Roe simply said, "Yes, women have the right to make critical reproductive healthcare decisions for themselves, without needing to ask permission from the state!" How awful!!! says the right wing!!!

 

[JasperL]

Why do Democrats/leftists/liberals hate the democratic process so much? The US isn't even that democratic, being a constitutional republic, but even the few decisions left to the states cause them immense anguish.

Why do right wingers LOVE the government telling women what to do? Why don't right wingers trust women to make decisions for themselves?

 

[Cosmo]

Not really, because the thing is when women have the right to make a choice, women make the decision, for themselves.

Roe simply said, "Yes, women have the right to make critical reproductive healthcare decisions for themselves, without needing to ask permission from the state!" How awful!!! says the right wing!!!

Why do right wingers LOVE the government telling women what to do? Why don't right wingers trust women to make decisions for themselves?

So did you have a Constitutionally sound argument to make, or are you just going to whine that law and order was restored?

 

[Lursa]

About as meaningless an argument as anyone can make. It's like saying, "You know, being homosexual in the military was illegal before 2011, right?"

So what?

And @JasperL There's no commitment to anything in his posts, no arguments. When confronted with sources and facts, he peppers with questions to hide from acknowledging them. It's just baiting. He's pretty raw from a poor showing on this issue elsewhere.

Notice...question after question after question...and no answers, no debate.

 

[Lursa]

EXACTLY!! And this is where their bullshit argument falls apart at the seams. Why is the fetus of a 14 year old girl who was raped by her uncle any less worthy of life than that of the happily married wife who already has two kids and doesn't want another? Aren't the "rights" of the two fetuses the same??

Anyone who isn't religiously myopic, and can see all the way to the horizon, realizes that the only place this is headed in a sane world is that women must be given total autonomy over their own bodies - period. Nothing else makes any sense in a developed civilization. But that day can't come soon enough.

They need to remember this....since Dobbs, there's a reason the states have avoided making having an abortion a crime. They've criminalized providing them. Women can take pills, etc, they can drive to another state, etc. It would violate many of women's Const rights, such as to bodily autonomy and due process, for a state to try and enforce it. And the fed govt has an obligation to protect women's rights. The Supremacy Clause protects our federal rights.

If the unborn had a Const. right to life...even this SCOTUS, with Dobbs, couldnt have allowed states to allow elective abortions.

 

[MamboDervish]

Why is the left so certain that the red state people don't actually want the law to be like this? Why do they assume the elected officials of the red states somehow don't represent the wishes of the red state citizens, and that they and their leftist commie buddies know better?

Their "commie buddies" ??!!?? You mean both of them?

 

[Bighorn66]

Defending the behavior of the Talibangelicals is unacceptable.

For your reference, the Nazis allowed abortion up to the end of the first 12 weeks. The talibangelicals only allow six weeks.

The reich-wing is not going to stick its nose into people's medical decisions.

Looks like someone did some quick research. But that won’t change the charge.

 

[Bighorn66]

Just pointing out that it's not particularly "Nazi" despite how much the left likes making ridiculous Nazi references whenever they disagree with someone.

That poster runs around the board calling everyone who opposes his opinions on something as Nazis. Some of them are good entertainment.

 

[AZRWinger]

They need to remember this....since Dobbs, there's a reason the states have avoided making having an abortion a crime. They've criminalized providing them. Women can take pills, etc, they can drive to another state, etc. It would violate many of women's Const rights, such as to bodily autonomy and due process, for a state to try and enforce it. And the fed govt has an obligation to protect women's rights. The Supremacy Clause protects our federal rights.

If the unborn had a Const. right to life...even this SCOTUS, with Dobbs, couldnt have allowed states to allow elective abortions.

Dobbs unambiguously rejected Roe's determination of a Constitutional right to abortion based on the penubral right to privacy. There is nothing in Dobbs supporting abortion as a Constitutional right.

The judge issuing a preliminary injunction wrote.

"Judge David C. Young ruled that the ban's requirements do not advance patient health and violate the reproductive rights guaranteed by the amendment."

Abortion advocates bray continously about government interference in women's health care but cheer when a male judge invalidates guard rails providing minimal consideration for the decision to slaughter the unborn. Even timeshare sales have a 3 day recension period. But "healthcare" requires the high pressure salespeople of Planned Parenthood be unencumbered in their pursuit of slaughtering the unborn.

The judge refers to the amendment in the state constitution. Something that wouldn't be necessary if abortion was a Federal right.

 

[weaver2]

Why is the left so certain that the red state people don't actually want the law to be like this? Why do they assume the elected officials of the red states somehow don't represent the wishes of the red state citizens, and that they and their leftist commie buddies know better?

Abortion rights have won in every election since Roe v. Wade was overturned

Abortion has been on the ballot in seven states since June 2022. In each instance, anti-abortion groups have lost.

www.nbcnews.com

State	Decision	Vote date
California	Passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Kentucky	Rejected amending the state constitution to include language saying it does not protect the right to an abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Kansas	Rejected a state constitutional amendment that would have said there is no right to an abortion	Aug. 2, 2022
Michigan	Passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to an abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Montana	Rejected a measure that would have required medical workers — who would have faced the prospect of criminal charges — to provide care in the rare instances of babies born alive after an attempted abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Ohio	Rejected a measure that would have made it harder to pass an abortion-rights constitutional amendment	Aug. 8, 2023
Vermont	Passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to an abortion	Nov. 8, 2022

Kentucky Kansas Montana Ohio and Michigan are all conservative states or had conservative legislatures that passed anti-abortion laws. All of those states had an election where the general public was asked to vote on an abortion law. The public voted to protect access to abortion or voted down laws that restricted abortion.

This is not something we need to debate. Rovember's voting will tell you what you don't want to know.

 

[Donatello]

Just pointing out that it's not particularly "Nazi" despite how much the left likes making ridiculous Nazi references whenever they disagree with someone.

Are you a Nazi supporter?

 

[Lursa]

Dobbs unambiguously rejected Roe's determination of a Constitutional right to abortion based on the penubral right to privacy. There is nothing in Dobbs supporting abortion as a Constitutional right.

The judge issuing a preliminary injunction wrote.

"Judge David C. Young ruled that the ban's requirements do not advance patient health and violate the reproductive rights guaranteed by the amendment."

Abortion advocates bray continously about government interference in women's health care but cheer when a male judge invalidates guard rails providing minimal consideration for the decision to slaughter the unborn. Even timeshare sales have a 3 day recension period. But "healthcare" requires the high pressure salespeople of Planned Parenthood be unencumbered in their pursuit of slaughtering the unborn.

The judge refers to the amendment in the state constitution. Something that wouldn't be necessary if abortion was a Federal right.

That has almost nothing to do with my post. I didnt address a Const right to abortion. I discussed the Const rights women have that are violated by state abortion laws that, when enacted or enforced, force women to remain pregnant or punish them for having them. Like bodily autonomy, due process, liberty, etc.

So please address my post first before blogging your opinion.

If the unborn had a Const. right to life...how could Dobbs make a decision allowing states to kill the unborn? (Elective abortion)

 

[Cosmo]

Abortion rights have won in every election since Roe v. Wade was overturned

Abortion has been on the ballot in seven states since June 2022. In each instance, anti-abortion groups have lost.

www.nbcnews.com

State	Decision	Vote date
California	Passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Kentucky	Rejected amending the state constitution to include language saying it does not protect the right to an abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Kansas	Rejected a state constitutional amendment that would have said there is no right to an abortion	Aug. 2, 2022
Michigan	Passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to an abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Montana	Rejected a measure that would have required medical workers — who would have faced the prospect of criminal charges — to provide care in the rare instances of babies born alive after an attempted abortion	Nov. 8, 2022
Ohio	Rejected a measure that would have made it harder to pass an abortion-rights constitutional amendment	Aug. 8, 2023
Vermont	Passed a state constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to an abortion	Nov. 8, 2022

Kentucky Kansas Montana Ohio and Michigan are all conservative states or had conservative legislatures that passed anti-abortion laws. All of those states had an election where the general public was asked to vote on an abortion law. The public voted to protect access to abortion or voted down laws that restricted abortion.

This is not something we need to debate. Rovember's voting will tell you what you don't want to know.

Didn't Michigan vote for Biden in 2020? Seems questionable to call it conservative. So that leaves 4 states. Either way a small sample size. And some of the other states (incl. red states) already have referendums scheduled for November: https://www.kff.org/womens-health-p...ated-state-constitutional-amendment-measures/

And looks like one of them is going to attempt to curtail abortion.

So what's all the leftist screeching about? Looks like the states that want the referendums are doing them. Looks like some blue states don't and/or aren't. What's the big deal?

 

[Cosmo]

Are you a Nazi supporter?

Are you? I mean, Nazis had abortions, and leftists have abortion, right?

 

[Donatello]

Are you? I mean, Nazis had abortions, and leftists have abortion, right?

I don't follow your logic. Does that mean you support Nazis or not? I sure don't.

 

[Cosmo]

I don't follow your logic. Does that mean you support Nazis or not? I sure don't.

No, but I figured I'd engage in sarcastic abuse of reductivism to accuse the left of being Nazis.

 

[Donatello]

No, but I figured I'd engage in sarcastic abuse of reductivism to accuse the left of being Nazis.

Why? What does that do for you?

 

[JasperL]

So did you have a Constitutionally sound argument to make, or are you just going to whine that law and order was restored?

You said, "That's literally half a dozen appointees deciding it for the entire country." That's wrong. Roe said, "Hey, women, YOU decide." The majority simply said to women they had the RIGHT to make THEIR OWN decisions.

The anti-abortion states are the government telling women - YOU DECIDE NOTHING!!! WE in the GOVERNMENT will tell you what you can do. You can call that 'law and order' if you want, but it's the government dictating to women what their options are. Even in states with 'exceptions' who decides if the woman meets them? Not the woman!!! She's an irrelevant bystander in that decision. Her doctor might decide, but more likely it's the doctor, then the hospital, consulting with lawyers, who decide if she meets one of the few exceptions.