Officer charged with 2nd-degree manslaughter in Daunte Wright killing

[calamity]

Protesters gather at Brooklyn Center police station hours after ex-officer is charged in the death of Daunte Wright | CNN

For the fourth night in a row, protesters gathered at the Brooklyn Center police station to demonstrate over the killing of 20-year-old Daunte Wright, a Black man, during a traffic stop in the Minneapolis suburb, hours after former police officer Kim Potter was arrested and charged in his death.

www.cnn.com

2nd degree manslaughter sounds about right.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't believe police negligent discharges should be criminally prosecuted. Unless it can be proven this was more than a horrible mistake.

 

[Praxas]

I don't believe police negligent discharges should be criminally prosecuted. Unless it can be proven this was more than a horrible mistake.

Really? So if your wife, daughter, etc. was dead because of this you would just write it off as "Oh well, their dead but at least it was only negligence"?

 

[ecofarm]

Really? So if your wife, daughter, etc. was dead because of this you would just write it off as "Oh well, their dead but at least it was only negligence"?

If you're gonna respond to a philosophical and legal debate with that, well, you understand I'm not interested.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Really? So if your wife, daughter, etc. was dead because of this you would just write it off as "Oh well, their dead but at least it was only negligence"?

It doesnt become more than what it actually is just because its *your* family member.
Yes, still negligence.

Another cop overcharged, an attorney with a degree from a Cracker Jack box could beat Manslaughter 2 here.
And then: MORE riots and looting. YAY!!

 

[mrjurrs]

I don't believe police negligent discharges should be criminally prosecuted. Unless it can be proven this was more than a horrible mistake.

That is exactly what manslaughter charges reflect, negligence resulting in death.

 

[ecofarm]

That is exactly what manslaughter charges reflect, negligence resulting in death.

The officer was not carrying a gun as a matter of personal choice. It was in the course of duty. She made a mistake as a result of the duties put upon her by the job. The job bears some responsibility for this event.

It would be different is some dude decided to carry and pulled and fired on his stroll down the street, but this was someone put into a stressful situation by the people and the person cracked under the pressure. We can't forget we put them there.

 

[mrjurrs]

It doesnt become more than what it actually is just because its *your* family member.
Yes, still negligence.

Another cop overcharged, an attorney with a degree from a Cracker Jack box could beat Manslaughter 2 here.
And then: MORE riots and looting. YAY!!

MI manslaughter...

1. That the defendant caused the death of the deceased victim, that the deceased individual died as a result of the defendant's action.
2. That the defendant either:
   1. intended to kill the victim
   2. intended to do great bodily harm to the victim,
   3. created a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result.
3. That the defendant caused the death of the victim without justification or lawful excuse.

Which part falls short?

 

[ecofarm]

MI manslaughter...

1. That the defendant caused the death of the deceased victim, that the deceased individual died as a result of the defendant's action.
2. That the defendant either:
   1. intended to kill the victim
   2. intended to do great bodily harm to the victim,
   3. created a situation where the risk of great bodily harm or death was very high, knowing that as a result of the defendant's actions he or she knew that serious harm or death would likely result.
3. That the defendant caused the death of the victim without justification or lawful excuse.

Which part falls short?

The situation was created as a result of being a police officer. Not by the individual. The cop didn't wake up this morning and decide to pull that person over.

 

[Praxas]

If you're gonna respond to a philosophical and legal debate with that, well, you understand I'm not interested.

You said you didn't want them CRIMINALLY prosecuted, so yeah, you just want it written off without any punishment essentially.

 

[mrjurrs]

The officer was not carrying a gun as a matter of personal choice. It was in the course of duty. She made a mistake as a result of the duties put upon her by the job. The job bears some responsibility for this event.

It would be different is some dude decided to carry and pulled and fired on his stroll down the street, but this was someone put into a stressful situation by the people and the person cracked under the pressure. We can't forget we put them there.

Pulling a pistol instead of a taser after 20 plus years of training is negligent.

 

[Praxas]

It doesnt become more than what it actually is just because its *your* family member.
Yes, still negligence.

Another cop overcharged, an attorney with a degree from a Cracker Jack box could beat Manslaughter 2 here.
And then: MORE riots and looting. YAY!!

We prosecute people for vehicular homicide which is also negligence. Why should a police officer be ABOVE the law and not be criminally prosecuted?

 

[mrjurrs]

The situation was created as a result of being a police officer. Not by the individual. The cop didn't wake up this morning and decide to pull that person over.

That's not relevant. LEO can argue that in court, but it has zero place in charging decisions.

 

[ecofarm]

Pulling a pistol instead of a taser after 20 plus years of training is negligent.

Not negligent homicide. The situation was not created by the individual. It was created as a result of duty.

 

[Peter King]

Protesters gather at Brooklyn Center police station hours after ex-officer is charged in the death of Daunte Wright | CNN

For the fourth night in a row, protesters gathered at the Brooklyn Center police station to demonstrate over the killing of 20-year-old Daunte Wright, a Black man, during a traffic stop in the Minneapolis suburb, hours after former police officer Kim Potter was arrested and charged in his death.

www.cnn.com

2nd degree manslaughter sounds about right.

I think it is a bit too soon for charges. This should be seriously investigated and then after all the witnesses and facts are in, then should there be any charges. I am not sure what second degree manslaughter is but this was a mistake that is something she could be prosecuted for as negligible death. Don't know what manslaughter that is but it should also be leading to changes is taser instructions and taser use I think.

 

[Plasmaball]

I think it is a bit too soon for charges. This should be seriously investigated and then after all the witnesses and facts are in, then should there be any charges. I am not sure what second degree manslaughter is but this was a mistake that is something she could be prosecuted for as negligible death. Don't know what manslaughter that is but it should also be leading to changes is taser instructions and taser use I think.

An accidental death...you could Google it

 

[ApersonLIKEallOFyou]

That won't be easy to win. I 100% agree this officer is obviously at fault, even if she made a mistake, but Minnesota's criminal statute on this one is going to make the case difficult.

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

The negligence is obviously there, but "consciously takes chances of causing death.." is going to make it slippery.

 

[swing_voter]

Yet another black man who should've complied with police orders.


.

 

[dcsports]

That is exactly what manslaughter charges reflect, negligence resulting in death.

From the article " In Minnesota, second-degree manslaughter applies when authorities allege a person causes someone's death by "culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another.""

While this is likely paraphrased from the statute, it wouldn't seem to apply to this situation. The officer wasn't "consciously taking chances of causing death". She was trying to NOT cause death.

This statute appears to apply to someone intentionally doing a dangerous action, which could cause death. Drinking and driving. Firing a gun into the air. In this case, the officer was trying to follow standard practice, and to subdue the suspect, and made a mistake. Negligence, for sure, but not with a reckless disregard for life.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Pulling a pistol instead of a taser after 20 plus years of training is negligent.

You can train people 24/7/365

But you will never know what they will do when the adrenaline starts pumping.

But thankfully we have the experts here on Debate Politics like yourself.

 

[Fishking]

I don't believe police negligent discharges should be criminally prosecuted. Unless it can be proven this was more than a horrible mistake.

I can see this but there has to be a balance, and I'm not sure how to implement it. I think to a certain point a mistake that results in certain outcomes both need to be held accountable and also accept that people are not prefect creatures.

I really don't know where it falls in this case.

 

[Mr Person]

I don't believe police negligent discharges should be criminally prosecuted. Unless it can be proven this was more than a horrible mistake.

I do.

To me, that looks like using he fact that they are charged with greater responsibility to excuse failures to live up to that responsibility. Seems the wrong way around. They are charged with enforcing the law. They have the power of life and death over us in a very real sense. They should be held to a higher standard, not lower.

If we need to pay more for that, and/or we need to pay more to attract better quality people to the profession, fine.


We're apparently talking about a situation where the firearm is holstered by the dominant hand hip, the taser on the other, and the officer confused the two with civilian death resulting. Basically, the biggest mistake a cop could make.

Compare. A bus driver has a brain fart, accidentally confuses gas for brake, and drives a bus of people off an overpass. There is a statute criminally punishing negligent vehicular homicide.

There and here, the mistake is pretty much the worst the person could make and lies right at the heart of their responsibilities. There is also a criminal statute which ordinary citizens have been charged under when their own horrible mistakes kill people. I wouldn't let the cop off.

 

[Mr Person]

From the article " In Minnesota, second-degree manslaughter applies when authorities allege a person causes someone's death by "culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another.""

While this is likely paraphrased from the statute, it wouldn't seem to apply to this situation. The officer wasn't "consciously taking chances of causing death". She was trying to NOT cause death.

This statute appears to apply to someone intentionally doing a dangerous action, which could cause death. Drinking and driving. Firing a gun into the air. In this case, the officer was trying to follow standard practice, and to subdue the suspect, and made a mistake. Negligence, for sure, but not with a reckless disregard for life.

I would imagine the thinking is that the creation of the unreasonable risk is her negligently pulling out a gun when she meant to pull a taser instead, and the conscious taking of chances is in pulling the trigger.



Look, trying to guess at these things based on statutory text alone is usually a foolish errand. The devil is in the details, and the details are going to be found in Minnesota appellate decisions addressing the statute. I'd probably first take a glance at cases arguing insufficient evidence on either of the elements mentioned.

 

[tres borrachos]

Protesters gather at Brooklyn Center police station hours after ex-officer is charged in the death of Daunte Wright | CNN

For the fourth night in a row, protesters gathered at the Brooklyn Center police station to demonstrate over the killing of 20-year-old Daunte Wright, a Black man, during a traffic stop in the Minneapolis suburb, hours after former police officer Kim Potter was arrested and charged in his death.

www.cnn.com

2nd degree manslaughter sounds about right.

It's the right charge. She didn't intentionally kill him but his death was a result of her negligence.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Protesters gather at Brooklyn Center police station hours after ex-officer is charged in the death of Daunte Wright | CNN

For the fourth night in a row, protesters gathered at the Brooklyn Center police station to demonstrate over the killing of 20-year-old Daunte Wright, a Black man, during a traffic stop in the Minneapolis suburb, hours after former police officer Kim Potter was arrested and charged in his death.

www.cnn.com

2nd degree manslaughter sounds about right.

Not every mistake is the result of negligence.

This case should come down to whether her mistake in drawing the wrong weapon in a split second during a stressful situation was the result of negligence, or just a stress-induced mistake.

It would be one thing, and more likely to be actual negligence, if while preparing for work she intentionally put her pistol where her tazer was supposed to go, or if she failed to engage in the proper amount of training. That would be a clear failure in the duty of care.

But proving that what essentially boils down to a failure of muscle memory is the result of negligence is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion.