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Office of Religious Liberty and Patriotism opens at Oklahoma Education Department

The objection was going to mosques in the first place, on grounds there would be hell to pay if the kids were taken to church
Not true. Comparative religion classes allow that. A class that in many schools is optional and not required and allows parents to have their kids opt out of the activity.
 
Interesting name for the new entity. OKlahoma, fresh off trying to tailor an RFP for Trump Bibles, is setting up a new entity to further the state's public education goals.

OKLAHOMA CITY — A new office within the Oklahoma State Department of Education will promote expressions of religion and patriotism in public schools.

The head of the agency, state Superintendent Ryan Walters, announced Tuesday he established the Office of Religious Liberty and Patriotism. He said the new division will align with incoming President Donald Trump’s aim of protecting prayer in schools.

The office will investigate alleged abuses against religious freedom and patriotic displays, according to a news release from the Education Department.

Walters cited a September 2023 incident in which a Skiatook school removed Bible verses from a classroom at the urging of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, which contended it was unconstitutional for a public school to allow religious displays. At the time, Walters said the removal was “unacceptable.”

The U.S. Supreme Court has decided that students and public school employees are permitted to pray on school grounds, but school employees cannot lead students in prayer or other religious activities while doing their jobs. The Court ruled in 1962 against school-led prayer in public schools, finding it a violation of the U.S. Constitution’s prohibition of government-established religion.
Cool, since there is a reticence by some to banning books, I assume we can now have Bibles in every government school!
 
Cool, since there is a reticence by some to banning books, I assume we can now have Bibles in every government school!
Students can bring in their own. But why would they be needed?
 
The objection was going to mosques in the first place, on grounds there would be hell to pay if the kids were taken to church

Its a fair assumption that most of them were already familiar with church.
 
Not true. Comparative religion classes allow that. A class that in many schools is optional and not required and allows parents to have their kids opt out of the activity.


Can you give an example of the Mosque trip you had in mind? That way we can examine what arguments both sides made
 
Its a fair assumption that most of them were already familiar with church.


Why would a school make such an assumption? And wont that also be an opportunity for Moslem kids to also be familiarized with churches?
 
Talibani? The Taliban believe in many things, but religious liberty is not one of them.
Also, the OK education superintendent does not believe in religious liberty either.
 
It's amazing how in the supposed land of the free so many people get so upset about making people say a pledge or follow a religion.

Do you guys really all stand for the national anthem for every sports event?

Yes, national anthem, and viewing the entertainment display of the American flag if displayed, and also frequently a Christian prayer. Standing is socially required. Everyone is expected to stand with their hats off and their right hand over their hear while someone sings the national anthem.

Trump once forced the dismissal of a popular and promising professional football quarterback who instead of standing kneeled on one knee. The popular and promising QB kneeled on one knee in silent protest of the treatment of black Americans. Once Trump went apoplectic on television Trump supporters followed Trump's lead and soon were also pearl clutching and shocked at the quarterback.

Last week America's MAGA sports fans became upset because a popular and highly successful former professional football star and now very successful television celebrity was filmed leaning on wall off camera during the national anthem.
 
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Talibani? The Taliban believe in many things, but religious liberty is not one of them.
Neither does the head of the Oklahoma State Department of Education. What do you think Supt. Walters means by religious liberty? Do you think Islam and the Koran will be welcomed into schools along with evangelicals and their Bible? How about Baha'i? Unitarians? Presbyterians liberal ones? Agnostics?
 
Let me be clear then. I have no trust in your opinion about what has been clear to most people or how the OK office of Religious Liberty will operate.

So you trust the State of Oklahoma regarding religious liberty and equality for all?
 
Sure they can.

No they cannot.
Where is that ("separation of church and state") in the constitution again?
Its the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. Thomas Jefferson was very clear on this matter.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ʺmake no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,ʺ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.


I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.


Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802
 
Sure they can.
No, they cannot. At least not without violating the Constitution.
Where is that ("separation of church and state") in the constitution again?
The 1st Amendment, in the writings of the Founding Fathers, and in established legal precedent as affirmed by the SCOTUS.
 
No they cannot.

Its the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. Thomas Jefferson was very clear on this matter.


It's like some people actually want religion in the government. History and even modern times show that to be a really bad idea. It makes no sense.
 
It's like some people actually want religion in the government. History and even modern times show that to be a really bad idea. It makes no sense.
They have never thought through this lame brained idea. What do they think would happen to them when their religion isn't among the political majority?

There are far too many idiots who think the USA is a democracy where the majority gets to trample on the rights of anyone else just by their numbers. The past 500 years of human history is a very vivid example of what is in their future.
 
No they cannot.

Its the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment. Thomas Jefferson was very clear on this matter.


Yes, I am very aware of the letter to the Danbury Baptists and the common misreading of that letter.

So to which part of congress does a state run government school belong and which law was made by congress?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
 
It's like some people actually want religion in the government.
Do you mean like the people who actually drafted the constitution.

Did you know that church services were held at the capitol?

"Church services were held in what is now called Statuary Hall from 1807 to 1857. The first services in the Capitol, held when the government moved to Washington ."


History and even modern times show that to be a really bad idea. It makes no sense.
 
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