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?Obamacare?

sKiTzo

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Thinking back to when this bill got passed, a few things come to mind:

1. Nobody wanted it.

2. Nobody cared/health care hadn't really been a top issue

3. The bill was too long for anybody to read before they were expected to vote on it

Obama was so overly adamant and overzealous about it, insisting they pass it without anybody knowing what's in it. It was too unusual and odd. Does anybody know the real reason this was forced on americans ?
 

mak2

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You are factually wrong on 3 of 3 well 4 of 4, anyway not a single accurate statement in theOP.
 

Menard_K

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You are factually wrong on 3 of 3 well 4 of 4, anyway not a single accurate statement in theOP.
Please reference a legitimate scientific poll that indicates the public wanted "obamacare" before the bill was passed.
 

sKiTzo

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You are factually wrong on 3 of 3 well 4 of 4, anyway not a single accurate statement in theOP.

I just remember there were other far more important issues they were trying to take care of and america was on the verge of total financial collapse, but obama didn't want to do anything until this bill got passed. I remember thinking how weird his behavior was because he was pushing more important issues to the side and making obamacare his top priority, when it was very clear that nobody else shared his enthusiasm. On top of that, the cost of the bill at a time when we were literally teetering on financial collapse, was extremely out of place. So again, does anybody know or want to speculate on the real reason Obama had to force this on the american people? My BS meter is going haywire.
 

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As we all know - despite being a secret Muslim and Arab - Obama, like Saudi Arabia, is really controlled by Jews - who are overly represented in medicine/by Doctors.
In fact, Obama is a crypto-Jew (not really black) paying off his masters/mishpucha: the Free Mason/Illuminati/NWO/GoldmanSachs/Mossad cabal.
 
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CanadaJohn

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I'm no fan of Obama, but I believe he did speak during the 2008 election campaign about trying to do something about the high cost of healthcare in the US. Did he talk specifically about the monstrosity that is Obamacare - no - but to say that no one in America was interested in doing something about healthcare costs and availability would be false.

I wouldn't say nobody wanted the resultant legislation - there are definitely a slim majority who don't want Obamacare, but some of those are on the far left who want more - they want single payer, like in Canada, and feel that Obama misled them by not fighting for it. In addition, many people, including a lot of Republicans and conservatives like some of the pieces of Obamacare, but the negatives of the entirety of the bill outweighs the good parts.

I would definitely agree that Obamacare is a Frankenstein bill with mismatched pieces from a bunch of different agendas and it became too big and too unwieldly and congress simply ended up adopting it to get rid of it and move on to new business - many wanted something, anything to pass, and didn't care what was in it thinking they could fix it later - there's no fixing it though.
 

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I'm no fan of Obama, but I believe he did speak during the 2008 election campaign about trying to do something about the high cost of healthcare in the US. Did he talk specifically about the monstrosity that is Obamacare - no - but to say that no one in America was interested in doing something about healthcare costs and availability would be false.

I wouldn't say nobody wanted the resultant legislation - there are definitely a slim majority who don't want Obamacare, but some of those are on the far left who want more - they want single payer, like in Canada, and feel that Obama misled them by not fighting for it. In addition, many people, including a lot of Republicans and conservatives like some of the pieces of Obamacare, but the negatives of the entirety of the bill outweighs the good parts.

I would definitely agree that Obamacare is a Frankenstein bill with mismatched pieces from a bunch of different agendas and it became too big and too unwieldly and congress simply ended up adopting it to get rid of it and move on to new business - many wanted something, anything to pass, and didn't care what was in it thinking they could fix it later - there's no fixing it though.
There has been talk lately that Single Payer has always been the ultimate goal. Obamacare is too many confusing pages long, and was made so deliberately, according to the things I have read, because when enough people complain, and they will, it will be scrapped in favor of Single Payer... with grand announcements about how they will bow to the will of the people, and scrap it...but will people realize that the single payer will be the Federal government! Unelected bureaucrats will decide who gets treatment, and when, if approved. I don't know how your healthcare is administered in Canada, but I have read stories about Canadians having to come to the US to get lifesaving treatment they aren't approved to receive in Canada. Could this be true? I'm not sure that having nearly one fifth of our GDP in the hands of DC is the best thing for us, since we are now learning that many things originally touted about Obamacare are simply not true. It will cost more...we're already seeing that...; there will not be enough doctors to see the millions of new people added, and so forth. It sounds like a nightmare if what I am reading is true! :shock: :eek:
 

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Thinking back to when this bill got passed, a few things come to mind:

1. Nobody wanted it.

2. Nobody cared/health care hadn't really been a top issue

3. The bill was too long for anybody to read before they were expected to vote on it

Obama was so overly adamant and overzealous about it, insisting they pass it without anybody knowing what's in it. It was too unusual and odd. Does anybody know the real reason this was forced on americans ?
Completely wrong on all three counts. Perhaps you should watch the Frontline documentary, "The Deal". It lays out exactly how the PPACA (bka, "ObamaCare") ultimately came about.

1. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners wanted it, specifically the individual mandate, because they knew that such a health insurance reform policy provision would lead to more customers for the health insurance industry. Moreover, Republicans were for it before they were against it. They only used the "unconstitutional" line during the Clinton era because they knew that without a taxing provision such a "mandate" would never clear constitutional hurdles. This time, though, that old attack line didn't work. Justice Robert saw to that. :wink:

2. Not true. GWB wanted to do something about the national health care issue, but was advised not to take up the issue. Besides, he clearly had more pressing issues on his plate, i.e., two wars. But to the point...well, I'll let his words speak for him. Quoted commentary from 2000:

There is an issue with the uninsured. There sure is. And we’ve got uninsured people in my state. But we’re providing health care for our people. One thing about insurance, that’s a Washington term. The question is, are people getting health care? And we’ve got a strong safety net. And there needs to be a safety net in America. There needs to be more community health clinics where the poor can go get health care. We need a program for the uninsured. They’ve been talking about it in Washington, D.C. The number of uninsured have now gone up for the past seven years.

We need a $2,000 credit, a rebate for working people who don’t have insurance, that they can use in the marketplace and start purchasing insurance. We need to allow small businesses to write insurance policies across jurisdictional lines so small business can afford health care. Health care needs to be affordable and available.
OMG! A $2,000 credit...a rebate for working people so that they can afford health insurance? The ability to sell health insurance across state lines? Affordable health care? How dare that big government socialist try to take over the health care system. Moreover, Democrats have cared about changing national health care since the Clinton era, but Republicans made damned sure that didn't happen by using the same old attack lines and misinformation they used way back then.

3. Now, here you got me...kinda. People still believe that the original 2,000 page draft of health care reform is the same bill that got signed into law. It's not. The actually bill that was signed into law, HR 3590, is ONLY 906 pages long.

As to the President being "so overly adamant and overzealous about it, insisting they pass it without anybody knowing what (was) in it", again watch the documentary and then you'll know exactly how health care reform really came about. It wasn't "too unusually" or "odd". And yes, I know the real reason the law came into being and how it eventually passed. Do you? Again, watch the documentary and then you'll know, too.
 
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Menard_K

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Completely wrong on all three counts. Perhaps you should watch the Frontline documentary, "The Deal". It lays out exactly how the PPACA (bka, "ObamaCare") ultimately came about.

1. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners wanted it, specifically the individual mandate, because they knew that such a health insurance reform policy provision would lead to more customers for the health insurance industry. Moreover, Republicans were for it before they were against it. They only used the "unconstitutional" line during the Clinton era because they knew that without a taxing provision such a "mandate" would never clear constitutional hurdles. This time, though, that old attack line didn't work. Justice Robert saw to that. :wink:
"The National Association of Insurance Commissioners wanted it," Right... but did WE THE PEOPLE want it?
Our Representatives are supposed to represent US, that is WE THE PEOPLE.

Can anybody point to a poll that indicates the rank & file VOTERS & TAXPAYERS
of this land approved of this "health care reform" before it was voted on?
 

sKiTzo

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Completely wrong on all three counts. Perhaps you should watch the Frontline documentary, "The Deal". It lays out exactly how the PPACA (bka, "ObamaCare") ultimately came about.

1. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners wanted it, specifically the individual mandate, because they knew that such a health insurance reform policy provision would lead to more customers for the health insurance industry. Moreover, Republicans were for it before they were against it. They only used the "unconstitutional" line during the Clinton era because they knew that without a taxing provision such a "mandate" would never clear constitutional hurdles. This time, though, that old attack line didn't work. Justice Robert saw to that. :wink:

2. Not true. GWB wanted to do something about the national health care issue, but was advised not to take up the issue. Besides, he clearly had more pressing issues on his plate, i.e., two wars. But to the point...well, I'll let his words speak for him. Quoted commentary from 2000:



OMG! A $2,000 credit...a rebate for working people so that they can afford health insurance? The ability to sell health insurance across state lines? Affordable health care? How dare that big government socialist try to take over the health care system. Moreover, Democrats have cared about changing national health care since the Clinton era, but Republicans made damned sure that didn't happen by using the same old attack lines and misinformation they used way back then.

3. Now, here you got me...kinda. People still believe that the original 2,000 page draft of health care reform is the same bill that got signed into law. It's not. The actually bill that was signed into law, HR 3590, is ONLY 906 pages long.

As to the President being "so overly adamant and overzealous about it, insisting they pass it without anybody knowing what (was) in it", again watch the documentary and then you'll know exactly how health care reform really came about. It wasn't "too unusually" or "odd". And yes, I know the real reason the law came into being and how it eventually passed. Do you? Again, watch the documentary and then you'll know, too.
It's massiveness and purported urgency of its necessity was blown way out of proportion. They said 50 million people are uninsured so this is why we need this, but it has been argued that this was an exaggeration. Of those 50 million, 10 million were illegal aliens, and 20 million were simply people who made enough money to pay for their own healthcare. The 20 million remaining could always use the free clinics that are available. Most counties and states have their own programs that work just fine.

I live in OC California and I have MSI (medical services initiative) which I personally rate just as high as any expensive health care provider. So, I would have to say, then, that obamacare is 100% not needed, and the urgency of needing it that was displayed by obama is 100% BS. There's a reason they had to have this, and it's not healthcare. Normally, a bill that is met with so much opposition as this was, would be canned or shelved. No big deal, right? But that's not what happened. Obama and the 2 or 3 other people that wanted it, forced it down the throats of the rest of america, who strongly opposed it. It's odd and unusual and cause for suspicion. The hidden purpose remains to be seen.

As a final thought, does anybody agree that it should be unlawful to vote on a bill that you haven't read?
 

AngryOldGuy

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If you knew that the desire of certain people was to have socialized medicine in this country going all the way back to the 30's
If you knew that Medicare/Medicaid was a major step in that direction in the mid-60's
If you recall Hillary's failed attempt at this in the 90's
Then you'd have far fewer questions regarding this issue.
My question to you is: where do you think this will end up?
 

Menard_K

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If you knew that the desire of certain people was to have socialized medicine in this country going all the way back to the 30's
If you knew that Medicare/Medicaid was a major step in that direction in the mid-60's
If you recall Hillary's failed attempt at this in the 90's
Then you'd have far fewer questions regarding this issue.
My question to you is: where do you think this will end up?
I don't know how far back in history the concept goes...
but there is this bit where a whole factory is considered the "group"
and we get "GROUP INSURANCE" given that group, as a concept
it would be a idea to make all of AMERICA the "group" however
administering that would be a bureaucratic nightmare.
The problem as I see it, is that the bureaucracy exists as an animal
that has a healthy self-preservation instinct and as such strives to
continue its existence and indeed grow, but will resist being down-sized
or discontinued. This is a problem for AMERICA, the Bureaucracy has taken
on a life of its own.... oops!
 

Menard_K

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I don't know how far back in history the concept goes...
but there is this bit where a whole factory is considered the "group"
and we get "GROUP INSURANCE" given that group, as a concept
it would be a idea to make all of AMERICA the "group" however
administering that would be a bureaucratic nightmare.
The problem as I see it, is that the bureaucracy exists as an animal
that has a healthy self-preservation instinct and as such strives to
continue its existence and indeed grow, but will resist being down-sized
or discontinued. This is a problem for AMERICA, the Bureaucracy has taken
on a life of its own.... oops!
Just a P.S. to my last, May I suggest that people kvetch a lot to their congresspeople
and DEMAND that if indeed this new system is to be implemented, make it for EVERYBODY
that is congress & all of the GOV, must use the same system that the rank & file Voters/taxpayers use.
 

Threegoofs

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code1211

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Completely wrong on all three counts. Perhaps you should watch the Frontline documentary, "The Deal". It lays out exactly how the PPACA (bka, "ObamaCare") ultimately came about.

1. The National Association of Insurance Commissioners wanted it, specifically the individual mandate, because they knew that such a health insurance reform policy provision would lead to more customers for the health insurance industry. Moreover, Republicans were for it before they were against it. They only used the "unconstitutional" line during the Clinton era because they knew that without a taxing provision such a "mandate" would never clear constitutional hurdles. This time, though, that old attack line didn't work. Justice Robert saw to that. :wink:

2. Not true. GWB wanted to do something about the national health care issue, but was advised not to take up the issue. Besides, he clearly had more pressing issues on his plate, i.e., two wars. But to the point...well, I'll let his words speak for him. Quoted commentary from 2000:



OMG! A $2,000 credit...a rebate for working people so that they can afford health insurance? The ability to sell health insurance across state lines? Affordable health care? How dare that big government socialist try to take over the health care system. Moreover, Democrats have cared about changing national health care since the Clinton era, but Republicans made damned sure that didn't happen by using the same old attack lines and misinformation they used way back then.

3. Now, here you got me...kinda. People still believe that the original 2,000 page draft of health care reform is the same bill that got signed into law. It's not. The actually bill that was signed into law, HR 3590, is ONLY 906 pages long.

As to the President being "so overly adamant and overzealous about it, insisting they pass it without anybody knowing what (was) in it", again watch the documentary and then you'll know exactly how health care reform really came about. It wasn't "too unusually" or "odd". And yes, I know the real reason the law came into being and how it eventually passed. Do you? Again, watch the documentary and then you'll know, too.


The bill that is Obamacare was about 2000 pages long. I've seen numbers that count up to 2300 and others more in the 1900 range. It doesn't matter. Nobody who voted for it read it.

The bill that was passed did not originate in the House, so any bill that starts with HR did not pass.

The average law that is passed is supported by regulations that number between 10 and 100 pages. We are currently up to 20,000 pages of regulations so that is even more that our lazy, thieving, bought and paid for legislators have not read nor do they understand.

Most of the federal unions do not want this monstrosity and there will be exemptions for them because what is good for us is not good for them.

This is a swindle from top to bottom and side to side. The FACT that insurance rates are rising at an unprecedented rate says all that is needed to be said about this. We are once again victimized by the big government proponents making the government bigger.
 

code1211

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It's massiveness and purported urgency of its necessity was blown way out of proportion. They said 50 million people are uninsured so this is why we need this, but it has been argued that this was an exaggeration. Of those 50 million, 10 million were illegal aliens, and 20 million were simply people who made enough money to pay for their own healthcare. The 20 million remaining could always use the free clinics that are available. Most counties and states have their own programs that work just fine.

I live in OC California and I have MSI (medical services initiative) which I personally rate just as high as any expensive health care provider. So, I would have to say, then, that obamacare is 100% not needed, and the urgency of needing it that was displayed by obama is 100% BS. There's a reason they had to have this, and it's not healthcare. Normally, a bill that is met with so much opposition as this was, would be canned or shelved. No big deal, right? But that's not what happened. Obama and the 2 or 3 other people that wanted it, forced it down the throats of the rest of america, who strongly opposed it. It's odd and unusual and cause for suspicion. The hidden purpose remains to be seen.

As a final thought, does anybody agree that it should be unlawful to vote on a bill that you haven't read?

Yes............
 

iguanaman

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I just remember there were other far more important issues they were trying to take care of and america was on the verge of total financial collapse, but obama didn't want to do anything until this bill got passed. I remember thinking how weird his behavior was because he was pushing more important issues to the side and making obamacare his top priority, when it was very clear that nobody else shared his enthusiasm. On top of that, the cost of the bill at a time when we were literally teetering on financial collapse, was extremely out of place. So again, does anybody know or want to speculate on the real reason Obama had to force this on the american people? My BS meter is going haywire.
In 1798, the U.S. Congress passed a law called the 1799 Public Health Service Act. In it, 20 cents per month was pulled from the paychecks of merchant marines and used to build a hospitals in port cities to pay for their health care.

Or, as John Parascandola wrote, “One can think of this arrangement as the first health insurance scheme and the first HMO in America.”

That’s right: The U.S. has been trying to figure out how to pay for health care for 214 years.
Guess how long the U.S. has been wrangling with health care? - Orlando Business Journal
 

code1211

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If you knew that the desire of certain people was to have socialized medicine in this country going all the way back to the 30's
If you knew that Medicare/Medicaid was a major step in that direction in the mid-60's
If you recall Hillary's failed attempt at this in the 90's
Then you'd have far fewer questions regarding this issue.
My question to you is: where do you think this will end up?



This will result in public healthcare fo rthe dead and dying poor and good healthcare operating outside the Obamacare bureaucracy.

The Obamacare care will be referred to as the back alley solution.
 

Threegoofs

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This whole 'reading the bill' thing is just completely silly.

If you are complaining about this, you have approximately zero understanding of what bills look like or how legislators get an understanding of them.

The bills are functionally unreadable- they are hundreds of pages of technical changes to existing law. The executive summaries are what the legislators need to understand, and these are much shorter. But even that is not enough, so legislators are usually orally briefed on large pieces of legislation like this multiple times.

Reading the legislation is something that aides do- and lobbyists, because the level of legal detail and understanding is something you don't want an elected official to waste time on.
 

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It's massiveness and purported urgency of its necessity was blown way out of proportion. They said 50 million people are uninsured so this is why we need this, but it has been argued that this was an exaggeration. Of those 50 million, 10 million were illegal aliens, and 20 million were simply people who made enough money to pay for their own healthcare. The 20 million remaining could always use the free clinics that are available. Most counties and states have their own programs that work just fine.

I live in OC California and I have MSI (medical services initiative) which I personally rate just as high as any expensive health care provider. So, I would have to say, then, that obamacare is 100% not needed, and the urgency of needing it that was displayed by obama is 100% BS. There's a reason they had to have this, and it's not healthcare. Normally, a bill that is met with so much opposition as this was, would be canned or shelved. No big deal, right? But that's not what happened. Obama and the 2 or 3 other people that wanted it, forced it down the throats of the rest of america, who strongly opposed it. It's odd and unusual and cause for suspicion. The hidden purpose remains to be seen.

As a final thought, does anybody agree that it should be unlawful to vote on a bill that you haven't read?
I think you have forgotten that he cost of healthcare was rising at 10% a YEAR. That is unsustainable and something needed to be done or face economic collapse. You may think that paying 2 or 3 times the rate of other western nations for healthcare is not a problem but you are wrong.
Please don't say the Nancy Pelosi did not read that HC bill because that is NOT what she said. I don't think anyone in Congress ever stated that they did not read the bill before voting for it. It is a right wing lie.
 

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As we all know - despite being a secret Muslim and Arab - Obama, like Saudi Arabia, is really controlled by Jews - who are overly represented in medicine/by Doctors.
In fact, Obama is a crypto-Jew (not really black) paying off his masters/mishpucha: the Free Mason/Illuminati/NWO/GoldmanSachs/Mossad cabal.
In the real world, this is obvious satire. Here, I think it's probably hilarious satire, but on the off chance it's not (seriously, this place is ****ing crazy), I rescind my like.
 

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it is really simple folks
we are now all property of the state
to be disposed of as the regime see's fit
'that is all'

America you were quite a country RIP
 

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it is really simple folks
we are now all property of the state
to be disposed of as the regime see's fit
'that is all'

America you were quite a country RIP
Are you a caricature of a poster or a real one?

I really can't figure it out. Like Dana Carvey's grumpy old man on SNL?

Its almost like a computer program was written that feeds Limbaugh, Hannity and (insert nutty RW radio guy here) generates generic responses to topics.

It's also hard to tell if its in Beta testing, or if the lack of rationality is a feature, not a bug.
 

AngryOldGuy

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crap you found us out right away
well since you are clearly quite astute
would you be willing to assist with our beta testing of the program?
We have to admit it does have a few bugs and kinks that need ironing out
 
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