Obamacare takes first real step closer to repeal after Senate vote

[Born Free]

They've started the "repeal". That's the easy part. They get no credit for that.

The other option is to do nothing and just sit back and let Ocare implode. Then the Dems would come screaming "we need help"

 

[Renae]

Of course, bring up the socialized healthcare system in the UK, that costs BTW less than half what we spend.

It's always curious that people don't cite France, or Israel, or Germany, or Japan, or Australia, or Switzerland or every other industrialized country on the planet with some sort of single payer system, that covers everyone, many of them with private insurers and providers. Nope, the talking point is nearly always the UK's socialized healthcare system.

If you want that healthcare so bad, move here, America doesn't operate that way and, the Good Lord willing, never will.

 

[zimmer]

Try looking outside the bubble.

Americans Say: Don't Repeal Obamacare Without A Replacement Plan : Shots - Health News : NPR

I did say they wanted it repealed... and they do.

 

[zimmer]

Interesting. So someone who lived in Canada suffered from their healthcare system. I'm sure it's almost impossible to find anyone in the U.S. who has also suffered from our system, such as one of the many millions of the uninsured, so therefore, I guess, Canada's system relative to the U.S. sucks because you know a guy/gal, Q.E.D.

That's about the level of debate we've come to expect on healthcare on DP.

It goes beyond that one case.

Why do canadians send patients south of the border?

Why did the Supreme Court of Quebec state, a waiting list does not constitute healthcare.

Why are Canadians suffering with their ailments in long lines?

Why did parliament member Stronach, a Lib member of Parliament, not wait in line for healthcare when it came to her cancer treatment... like a good Socialist soldier, and instead bolted south of the border?

Why do Canadian hospitals suffer with obsolete equipment?

The list of government mandated healthkare failures is massive... because government is big, slow and corrupt.

Sweden has a TV show, Angry Doctor... which reveals the **** system they have.

Show me a government dominated program that meets client expectations, is on budget, and met projections... try none.

 

[JackA]

I did say they wanted it repealed... and they do.

The impenetrable bubble you guys inhabit never ceases to amaze me.

 

[JasperL]

That isn't actually true.

Great, how about a link to the replacement plan that Congress has agreed on and what we can expect to see passed soon after repeal?

 

[zimmer]

If you want that healthcare so bad, move here, America doesn't operate that way and, the Good Lord willing, never will.

Germany is not single payer... but government dominated nonetheless.

I have a friend who had multiple skills as an MD... but the German government told him he couldn't x-ray, do small scale surgery, etc... all things he was qualified for.

He was working for points.

He didn't make enough points to live.

He moved to Switzerland... has a pharmacy too and is making a great living.

The German government/taxpayer paid for his education... which reveals why that shouldn't happen either, as another state is benefiting off of the German tax payer.

 

[JasperL]

That's true, but by the same token, it is hypocritical for leftists to whine about the fast tracking of the repeal, when that is exactly how they shoved it down our throats in the first place.

You must have lived in an alternate reality than the rest of us. In our reality, the ACA process lasted more than a year...

 

[jmotivator]

Great, how about a link to the replacement plan that Congress has agreed on and what we can expect to see passed soon after repeal?

They'll have to pass it for you to see what's in it.

 

[JasperL]

That depends on your goals. If you want the same poor quality for everyone, then socialism is the way to go. If you want the most efficient system for utilization of resources, then thats free markets.

Right, but with 'free markets' those that can't afford healthcare - 10s of millions - must be denied care they can't afford. It would be more "efficient" but we would have to accept that many (at least 10s of thousands per year) would actually and literally die for lack of basic care.

We're not going to allow that as a country, so the question is the most efficient way to effectively provide a base level of care to at least nearly everyone. Rich, and poor, young and old.

 

[zimmer]

The impenetrable bubble you guys inhabit never ceases to amaze me.

The people didn't want it... and they want it gone.

We had a Dead Kennedy seat open in MA. Scott Brown a Republican won it.

The citizens of MA, no red state... sent a Republican to the Senate to stop ObamaKare.

Who's in a bubble?

 

[JasperL]

If you want that healthcare so bad, move here, America doesn't operate that way and, the Good Lord willing, never will.

Gosh, original - "If you don't like it, move!"

What do you have against 1) cheaper, 2) great outcomes, 3) covers everyone?

 

[Renae]

Gosh, original - "If you don't like it, move!"

What do you have against 1) cheaper, 2) great outcomes, 3) covers everyone?

Not cheaper, taxes are higher, wait times are higher, rationed care sucks.

 

[JasperL]

It goes beyond that one case.

Why do canadians send patients south of the border?

Why did the Supreme Court of Quebec state, a waiting list does not constitute healthcare.

Why are Canadians suffering with their ailments in long lines?

Why did parliament member Stronach, a Lib member of Parliament, not wait in line for healthcare when it came to her cancer treatment... like a good Socialist soldier, and instead bolted south of the border?

Why do Canadian hospitals suffer with obsolete equipment?

The list of government mandated healthkare failures is massive... because government is big, slow and corrupt.

Sweden has a TV show, Angry Doctor... which reveals the **** system they have.

Show me a government dominated program that meets client expectations, is on budget, and met projections... try none.

I'd address some of your points, several I know to be either false or highly misleading, but the broader issue is of course Canada's healthcare system has problems, like our Medicare system, the VA, private insurance, the 10s of millions uninsured, millions who can never ever get insurance because of pre-existing conditions, etc. Saying, "Canada's healthcare system has X problems" isn't actually comparing it to ours in any meaningful way unless you also point to the big issues we have and have had for decades, mainly spiraling costs, and a long slow decline in employer provided coverage that's increasingly being made up on the government side - Medicaid, etc.

 

[JasperL]

Germany is not single payer... but government dominated nonetheless.

I have a friend who had multiple skills as an MD... but the German government told him he couldn't x-ray, do small scale surgery, etc... all things he was qualified for.

He was working for points.

He didn't make enough points to live.

He moved to Switzerland... has a pharmacy too and is making a great living.

The German government/taxpayer paid for his education... which reveals why that shouldn't happen either, as another state is benefiting off of the German tax payer.

LOL, so he moved to a place with universal healthcare and insurance mandates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance, which covers a range of treatments detailed in the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. It is therefore the same throughout the country and avoids double standards in healthcare. Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.[3]

The insured person pays the insurance premium for the basic plan up to 8% of their personal income. If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium.[3]

Gosh, sounds a lot like Obamacare!

 

[JasperL]

Not cheaper, taxes are higher, wait times are higher, rationed care sucks.

Of course it's cheaper everywhere else.

And wait times are sometimes longer for some things, shorter for others. We ration care.

 

[JasperL]

They'll have to pass it for you to see what's in it.

Nice, a stale talking point.

 

[jmotivator]

Nice, a stale talking point.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nobody saw the Democrats 2500page bill until a couple days before they passed it and Democrat supporters saw no problem with that. Now the new President hasn't even been sworn in and Democrats have the balls to scream "WEE NEEDS INFORMATION NOOOOOOW!" give me a break.

 

[vesper]

So we're going to have months of debate, extensive hearings, hundreds of amendments considered, and 60 Senators voting in favor of this repeal?

In a reconciliation only 51 votes are needed.

Here's a video on how Republicans will kill Obamacare.

 

[jmotivator]

Of course it's cheaper everywhere else.

And wait times are sometimes longer for some things, shorter for others. We ration care.

Note that the US spends as much PUBLICLY on Healthcare as all but one of the nations on that list.... so why is it that Democrats, whenever they decide to talk about health care reform, always want to reform PRIVATE insurance? The Democrats could institute a French style healthcare system by just reforming Medicaid and Medicare and other health programs and not touching the private health insurance market... and yet...

The answer is that the Democrats really don't give a sh** about health care, they use is as a weapon in their fight against American capitalism.

 

[JasperL]

Just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nobody saw the Democrats 2500page bill until a couple days before they passed it and Democrat supporters saw no problem with that. Now the new President hasn't even been sworn in and Democrats have the balls to scream "WEE NEEDS INFORMATION NOOOOOOW!" give me a break.

Give me a break. Those negotiations lasted for over a year, and there was exactly nothing in the final bill that anyone who cared AT ALL didn't know about in broad terms, with almost all the little details (that really only concern the regulated firms) also hashed out in a very public way. All anyone had to do was pick up any major newspaper and they'd have known what "Obamacare" was before the vote. I know because I followed the debates. If you didn't, that's your problem.

And the reason Democrats are screaming is because the GOP is rushing to get the "repeal" done, by January 27th last I saw, and understandably we're interested in what the "replace" will be, and so are several GOP Senators who aren't idiots because they recognize it's irresponsible to gut the ACA with nothing on the horizon. If the GOP was taking a reasonable approach to "repeal and replace" there would be no calls for information NOW.

Pretty simple stuff.

 

[jmotivator]

Give me a break. Those negotiations lasted for over a year, and there was exactly nothing in the final bill that anyone who cared AT ALL didn't know about in broad terms, with almost all the little details (that really only concern the regulated firms) also hashed out in a very public way. All anyone had to do was pick up any major newspaper and they'd have known what "Obamacare" was before the vote. I know because I followed the debates. If you didn't, that's your problem.

What did you know about the bill a week before Obama took office?

I'll be over here when you are ready to return to reality.

 

[JasperL]

Note that the US spends as much PUBLICLY on Healthcare as all but one of the nations on that list.... so why is it that Democrats, whenever they decide to talk about health care reform, always want to reform PRIVATE insurance? The Democrats could institute a French style healthcare system by just reforming Medicaid and Medicare and other health programs and not touching the private health insurance market... and yet...

That is just nonsense, and I can't believe you believe it. For starters, France has a single payer system for everyone where the government sets rates and all the rest for the country as a whole, and private insurance there is the equivalent of Medicare supplements. To institute the French system would require as step 1) Medicare for all or its equivalent. By definition that removes private insurers from the individual market entirely except for the supplemental portion.

The answer is that the Democrats really don't give a sh** about health care, they use is as a weapon in their fight against American capitalism.

Nice, and in an equally mature way, I can honestly assert that the GOP doesn't care about healthcare - they WANT poor people to die!

We could trade talking points appropriate for grade-school level discussions or not assume the other side is evil.... Might be more productive.

 

[JasperL]

What did you know about the bill a week before Obama took office?

I'll be over here when you are ready to return to reality.

As I said, and you omitted from your response, the demand for replace is because the GOP is rushing to repeal NOW. If they were responsible and were going to take their time and carefully figure out replace and pass it with repeal, then our demand to know NOW ends.... Not hard.

BTW, nice diversion. I was responding to your claim no one knew what was in the ACA until it passed, and that's false, so you moved the new goal post to BEFORE Obama took office.... :doh

 

[Greenbeard]

Just pointing out the hypocrisy. Nobody saw the Democrats 2500page bill until a couple days before they passed it and Democrat supporters saw no problem with that. Now the new President hasn't even been sworn in and Democrats have the balls to scream "WEE NEEDS INFORMATION NOOOOOOW!" give me a break.

Congressional committees started marking up the text of health reform bills (live on C-Span!) in July 2009. The floor votes were several months later and nothing went to Obama's desk until March 2010.