ObamaCare Deductibles To Rise To $6,600 In 2015

[jaeger19]

Since I've made neither of those arguments, your post is worthless

Telling facts and truth are hardly worthless...

You posted what you thought was the reason behind the Cadillac plan tax.. and I showed how illogical it is.

Nothing worthless about that.

 

[sangha]

Telling facts and truth are hardly worthless...

Claiming that I was making an argument I didn't make is neither a fact nor truth. It's a strawman and it's dishonest.

 

[MTAtech]

Which quite frankly is just plain stupid. What drives up costs is the expensive things that folks need.. like an amputation, or heart valve repair, or a coronary artery bypass. These are not things that people just decide to have because they have good insurance...:doh

There is the irony here when it comes to the intellectual disconnect that occurs in the healthcare debate... If you don't have insurance.. well we want you to have insurance.. and good enough insurance that when you are sick.. you WILL go to the doctor before you get really sick and cost more because you delayed your care...

BUT if you HAVE good insurance... we want you to have WORSE insurance so that you WON"T go to the doctor when you are sick because that may increase costs. :doh

And believe me.. insurance companies have plenty of oversight that tries to prevent providers from over utilizing services. You don't need to reduce the quality of peoples insurance to do that.

I happen to agree. If a company wants to pay more on teir plan so employees that superb coverage, I say let them.

 

[jaeger19]

Claiming that I was making an argument I didn't make is neither a fact nor truth. It's a strawman and it's dishonest.

Well... since I never claimed you made that argument.. I don't have to worry about either.

Tell you what... stop responding to posts I make to other people... and maybe you won't end up getting so butt hurt about nothing.

sheesh.

 

[sangha]

Well... since I never claimed you made that argument.. I don't have to worry about either.

No, you never said that! :roll:

Again.. the irony of that argument is amazing.

People lack incentives to limit costs they occur... so if you have good insurance... you obviously are running out and having all sorts of procedures that you don't need running costs up.

BUT if you have crappy insurance with a high deductible or only catastrophic care THEN you need to have a lower deductible so that you will go to the doctor when you need to and you need all sorts of procedures covered now that weren't covered before. :doh

You really can't have it both ways here. You can't argue on one hand that the way reduce costs is to make it EASIER and CHEAPER for patients to go to the doctor for tests and procedures thus preventing greater more costly illnesses...

And then in the same breath, argue that the way to reduce costs is to make it HARDER and more EXPENSIVE for patients to go to the doctor for tests and procedures so they won't overuse the system.

That's the cognitive disconnect that's being applied here.

Tell you what... stop responding to posts I make to other people... and maybe you won't end up getting so butt hurt about nothing.

I guess the concept of a public discussion board is unclear to some people.

 

[jaeger19]

I happen to agree. If a company wants to pay more on teir plan so employees that superb coverage, I say let them.

totally. I really don't understand the logic here. Honestly, I think that this "it drives prices up".. is just a front for the fact that they need to find taxes to help pay for subsidizing other people.

And here is the really stupid thing.. its based on the premium you pay... well, that's not under your control as an employer... so what if you pay a high premium because your employees have a lot of risk.. Now you get hit with a tax AND the high cost of insurance

There really isn't any other logical explanation (unless just plain stupid.. but this is obvious.. I mean why would you try to encourage WORSE insurance?)

 

[jaeger19]

No, you never said that! :roll:






I guess the concept of a public discussion board is unclear to some people.

Read it again... it was a general "you".. NOT meaning YOU as in Sangha.. but in ."you can't argue both for this and then turn around and reverse it"...

You need to go out and have a beer or go smoke some weed or something... (NOW BY YOU I MEAN YOU PERSONALLY)...

sheesh... Stop responding to posts I make to other people...

 

[sangha]

totally. I really don't understand the logic here. Honestly, I think that this "it drives prices up".. is just a front for the fact that they need to find taxes to help pay for subsidizing other people.

And here is the really stupid thing.. its based on the premium you pay... well, that's not under your control as an employer.

That's nonsense. Employers have a wide choice of plans with premiums that place it well below the threshold of the excise tax

 

[sangha]

Read it again... it was a general "you".. NOT meaning YOU as in Sangha.. but in ."you can't argue both for this and then turn around and reverse it"...

You need to go out and have a beer or go smoke some weed or something... (NOW BY YOU I MEAN YOU PERSONALLY)...

sheesh... Stop responding to posts I make to other people...

Claiming that you were referring to some mythical person in general doesn't make your claim any less dishonest because no one has made the argument you claimed they made.

And I will respond whenever I feel like it. If that makes your butt hurt, I don't care

 

[jaeger19]

That's nonsense. Employers have a wide choice of plans with premiums that place it well below the threshold of the excise tax

Right.. its nonsense :roll:... because the reason that some employers pay for premiums that are above the threshold for the excise tax is NOT because the insurance companies are charging them that for that level of coverage but BECAUSE the employer just wants to pay the extra money. :roll:

Because of course they have tons of choices that are cheaper with the same coverage.. they just CHOOSE to pay more for no other reason.. than they just want to pay more.

 

[jaeger19]

Claiming that you were referring to some mythical person in general doesn't make your claim any less dishonest because no one has made the argument you claimed they made.

And I will respond whenever I feel like it. If that makes your butt hurt, I don't care

And I will respond honestly and clearly just as I always do.. and if you wish to continue to make yourself look foolish by calling me dishonest.. that's your business.

 

[sangha]

Right.. its nonsense :roll:... because the reason that some employers pay for premiums that are above the threshold for the excise tax is NOT because the insurance companies are charging them that for that level of coverage but BECAUSE the employer just wants to pay the extra money. :roll:

Because of course they have tons of choices that are cheaper with the same coverage.. they just CHOOSE to pay more for no other reason.. than they just want to pay more.

I guess I forgot the fact that employers are forced to offer their employees a cadillac plan :screwy:

 

[sangha]

And I will respond honestly and clearly just as I always do..

I'm sure that's true

 

[jaeger19]

I guess I forgot the fact that employers are forced to offer their employees a cadillac plan :screwy:

Generally they do it because its part of their compensation package to make them competitive. If you want to say that's forced.... I can agree with that since compensation is a necessary evil.

Ahh if I only had more employees willing to work for free, and didn't expect benefits. I mean.. its not like medical providers expect such things.:lol::lol:


Ohh wait.. I hear a charge of "dishonest" coming.............

 

[sangha]

Generally they do it because its part of their compensation package to make them competitive. If you want to say that's forced.... I can agree with that since compensation is a necessary evil.

Ahh if I only had more employees willing to work for free, and didn't expect benefits. I mean.. its not like medical providers expect such things.:lol::lol:


Ohh wait.. I hear a charge of "dishonest" coming.............

Maybe that's because you're beginning to realize how often you rely on straw men

 

[jaeger19]

Maybe that's because you're beginning to realize how often you rely on straw men

You know.. I have begun to realize after being on this DebatePolitics that the accusation of "relying on strawmen".. generally signals that the person claiming it.. has lost the debate.

Its probably the most over used phrase on this website... and most incorrectly used I might add.

 

[sangha]

You know.. I have begun to realize after being on this DebatePolitics that the accusation of "relying on strawmen".. generally signals that the person claiming it.. has lost the debate.

Its probably the most over used phrase on this website... and most incorrectly used I might add.

You claimed that Ganesh compared the pay (and other working conditions) of American doctors to canadian doctors even though he did not and you later acknowledged that he did not. You presented an argument for taxing cadillac plans that, to my knowledge, no one has ever made.

Those are the very definition of straw men. There may be a very good reason why you are hearing the term so often and it has nothing to do with the phrase being over used. It may be because some posters often use the tactic.

 

[jaeger19]

You claimed that Ganesh compared the pay (and other working conditions) of American doctors to canadian doctors even though he did not and you later acknowledged that he did not. You presented an argument for taxing cadillac plans that, to my knowledge, no one has ever made.

Those are the very definition of straw men. There may be a very good reason why you are hearing the term so often and it has nothing to do with the phrase being over used. It may be because some posters often use the tactic.

Nope.. I never claimed that Ganesh compared such. I simply made a point regarding Canadian doctors and American doctors and related it to the OP. YOU are the one that jumped into the conversation.

Another poster brought up the tax on Cadillac plans, and I pointed out why it was idiotic. YOU jumped into the conversation and stated what you thought was the reason behind the tax.. and I responded with why it made no sense..

Simple as that. No "strawman".. no "dishonesty".. simple the truth and logic.

 

[sangha]

Nope.. I never claimed that Ganesh compared such. I simply made a point regarding Canadian doctors and American doctors and related it to the OP. YOU are the one that jumped into the conversation.

No one made any argument about how american doctors vs canadian doctors. That makes it a straw man

Another poster brought up the tax on Cadillac plans, and I pointed out why it was idiotic. YOU jumped into the conversation and stated what you thought was the reason behind the tax.. and I responded with why it made no sense..

You claimed that some unnamed general "you" was arguing that people with cadillac plans were running out to have unnecessary procedures. Again, no one has argued that. It too is a straw man argument.

 

[ludin]

The way Medicare is funded (and should be funded,) is through a payroll tax that every working person pays. You can also buy supplemental insurance -- (AAPR has some good plans) but the primary insurance is Medicare. This system has worked well, as it receives high marks from seniors. No, it's not government health care, as services are provided by the same private doctors who treat non-Medicare patients.

I don't know what the dispute is on all of this but this banter has nothing to do with this thread -- the claim (imo false claim) that Obamacare deductibles are rising to $6K.

which is why you won't get medicare for all. it is not government run just government funded.

medicaid is government run and the score marks for medicaid which is government run is horrible.
then you as usual didn't read the posts.

someone said they wanted government run healthcare. i proposed that they could get government run healthcare and everyone else that wants government run healthcare can have it. just they have to pay the taxes on it.

i prefer to have much better private healthcare. so i do not want to pay the taxes for a service (IE government run healthcare) that i am not going to use.

 

[sangha]

which is why you won't get medicare for all. it is not government run just government funded.

medicaid is government run and the score marks for medicaid which is government run is horrible.
then you as usual didn't read the posts.

someone said they wanted government run healthcare. i proposed that they could get government run healthcare and everyone else that wants government run healthcare can have it. just they have to pay the taxes on it.

i prefer to have much better private healthcare. so i do not want to pay the taxes for a service (IE government run healthcare) that i am not going to use.

Medicaid isn't govt-run.

Cant you get anything right?

 

[jaeger19]

No one made any argument about how american doctors vs canadian doctors. That makes it a straw man



You claimed that some unnamed general "you" was arguing that people with cadillac plans were running out to have unnecessary procedures. Again, no one has argued that. It too is a straw man argument.

Nope.. neither were "strawman" arguments... like I said.. most overused and incorrectly used phrase.


Under your narrative then... EVERY ORIGINAL POST.. would be a "strawman"... because no one had made an argument before the original post. Bringing up a new facet to the debate is NOT a strawman..

 

[DB20]

Nope.. neither were "strawman" arguments... like I said.. most overused and incorrectly used phrase.


Under your narrative then... EVERY ORIGINAL POST.. would be a "strawman"... because no one had made an argument before the original post. Bringing up a new facet to the debate is NOT a strawman..

I added sangha to my ignore list but I am still subjected to his lies and propaganda through people like you who quote him. I'd suggest. Your time could be much better spent then debating liars.

 

[JumpinJack]

Notice the operative word in the title "as" high? That means it can be lower. It also means it is similar to the previous system that allows choice in picking deductibles.

Another thread dedicated to unfairly putting the as in bad light.

Yet another opinion from someone not in the individual Obamacare market and who doesn't know much about it. "Choice in picking deductibles" does not exist, unless you're wealthy enough to choose an upper end of the silver level plans, or poor enough to get a large subsidy (which still costs a lot of money for us, the taxpayers, though it costs the direct recipient much less).

Statements like "pick a lower deductible" sounds a lot like "let them eat cake!" If people could pick a lower deductible, don't you think they would?

At the time I signed up, there were deductibles ranging, I think, from low to $5,000 at a cost of over $600 to close to $900. I couldn't afford that.

To get the premium below $550 required a deductible of $6000 to $6100 (for PPOs; HMOs don't have key kinds of providers in my city, so those aren't an option).

There are more options, now. Apparently some insurers widened their policy options, and more insurers entered my area market. But that opened up the possibility of $5,000 deductible for about $520 to $530. I'm not sure if Obamacare allows you to change policies except during open enrollment. There are rules about when you can buy insurance. Let me repeat that: THERE ARE RULES ABOUT WHEN YOU CAN BUY INSURANCE; IF YOU COULDN'T GET IT BEFORE, BUT CAN NOW, TOO BAD, unless you fit into a "life change" exception. I don't know if that applies to changing policies.

It reminds me of a young poster's response in this forum previously, when he told people just to buy a policy with a $50 deductible...what's the problem? he asked. LOL. You gotta love it. Opinions by people who don't know much about the individual ACA market. (I don't think there was even an option for me to get a deductible that low, when I signed up. Every state and city offers are different, and the offers vary according to age, as well.)

 

[sangha]

If people could pick a lower deductible, don't you think they would?

Not if they're healthy and smart.