ObamaCare cost is too unbearable [W:271]

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Actually Congress, along with the President decides what to fund, not one party or the other. That's why it's stupid for either party to state there will be no comprise. The foundation of this country is rooted in comprise...

I agree.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

I agree.

Damn I spelled compromise incorrectly twice in the same post... :lamo

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Damn I spelled compromise incorrectly twice in the same post... :lamo

You mean you "mis-spelled" compromise twice? lol I didn't even notice.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

100,000 people dying isn't "enmasse" to you?

My dear, I just dealt with one person who tried to use that hyperbole. You should go back and read our exchange...with particular attention on the definition of "en masse". After you've done that...if you still want to try your hyperbole...I'll deal with you, as well.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

You haven't acknowledged that if we refuse people at the emergency rooms, some will die. Do you think that's the correct policy for our country?

You haven't address my response to when the GOP should have sold their ideas. Do you think that's unreasonable, to expect them to build up their political clout, before they get their way?

I don't believe thousands of people will die if emergency rooms are allowed to demand payment for their services...just as thousands of people do not die of starvation because grocery stores are allowed to demand payment for their products.

I don't agree that Republicans need to sell their ideas...any more than you believe the Democrats need to sell theirs. Unlike you, I don't abide by double standards.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Piecemeal funding is unconstitutional. The republicans don't get to pick and chose which programs they like or dislike to fund because they'll only fund programs they like. So either they vote to open the government and then start negotiating like adults or they get all the blame for destroying the economy...again.

Perhaps you can cite the sections of the Constitution that are being violated by piecemeal funding?

Or, is this another attempt at hyperbole?

 

[WillyPete]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

I don't believe thousands of people will die if emergency rooms are allowed to demand payment for their services...just as thousands of people do not die of starvation because grocery stores are allowed to demand payment for their products.

Yes, but we provide food to the needy through a variety of programs. If those program were terminated, you don't think people would begin to starve?

It's worse with emergency rooms, because some of those needy will have life threatening issues. If you position is pure "pay to play," then you talking about letting people die in the parking lot outside a hospital, because they're too poor to come inside.

I find it hard to believe anyone is that callous, which is why I requested confirmation, and I imagine that's also why you haven't answered directly. You old softy, you.

I don't agree that Republicans need to sell their ideas...any more than you believe the Democrats need to sell theirs. Unlike you, I don't abide by double standards.

I don't think we' talking about the same thing here. They sell themselves to the electorate to get voted in, and being voted in validate what they do during their term. Maybe I'm not using words from your approved list. How about convince, persuade, pitch, cajole, chide, sway, induce, bring to reason, make a believer?

By successfully selling Obama and the Dems to the voting public in 2008, the Dems positioned themselves to enact the policies they ran on. If the public objected they forgot to vote based on it, as the GOP gains in 2010 were pretty mild, and obviously 2012 didn't go their way, even with the whirlwind of anti-Obama hysteria that was their main selling point. They seem to be setting themselves up for a rough 2014, at the moment. I don't think they're finished by any stretch, but they will need to realign themselves to the people they want to vote for them, at least nationally.

If\When the GOP again hold significant sway in Congress, having been empowered by the voters, they will be able to enact what they want. That's not a double standard.

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Perhaps you can cite the sections of the Constitution that are being violated by piecemeal funding?

Or, is this another attempt at hyperbole?

All public debt that is not mandatory must be treated equally. Piecemeal funding during a shutdown would violate the fourteenth amendment section four of the due process clause because the president can't priortize certain debts over others. Both the senate and the house passed a budget that exceeded the debt ceiling suggesting they both intended to raise the ceiling in lieu of negotiations. Now the house is renegging by holding the debt ceiling hostage and trying to force the president to unconstitutionally prioritize which discretionary debt to pay or not pay.

Amendment 14, section 4 of the due process clause: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law,.....shall not be questioned..."

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

All government debt that is not mandatory must be treated equally. Piecemeal funding would violate the fourteenth amendment section four of the due process clause because the president can't priortize certain debts over others. Both the senate and the house passed a budget that exceeded the debt ceiling suggesting they both intended to raise the ceiling in lieu of negotiations. Now the house is renegging by holding the debt ceiling hostage and trying to force the president to unconstitutionally prioritize which discretionary debt to pay.

Amendment 14, section 4 of the due process clause: The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law,.....shall not be questioned..."

What portion of incurring debt is mandatory? Congress decides where funds will be appropriated...

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

What portion of incurring debt is mandatory? Congress decides where funds will be appropriated...

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are mandatory spending. The rest is discretionary.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are mandatory spending. The rest is discretionary.

Those programs exist at the consent of Congress. There is nothing mandatory about those payments under our Constitution...

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Those programs exist at the consent of Congress. There is nothing mandatory about those payments under our Constitution...

Congress passed a law making them mandatory.

edit: I may be wrong about medicaid being mandatory but SS and medicare definitely are.

 

[Henrin]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Congress passed a law making them mandatory.

Except that there is nothing about the spending in question that the state needs to operate. There is no good reason that entitlement spending should be mandatory.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Congress passed a law making them mandatory.

No, it decided it didn't want to vote on the spending every year. It could just as easily stop the funding...

 

[Linc]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

They" don't recognize that Congress or this POTUS.
I haven't checked on which Repubs in Congress hurt their reelection chances yet today,
except Boehner crying that "this isn't a damn game", in which he elevatives a WH staffer
above the quotes by Paul and McConnell on a hot mic.

Congress passed a law making them mandatory.

 

[Linc]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

And Paul Ryan can't wait to go after all three of them,
after using them when young and immediately hopping on to the government teat his whole adult life after he was given all these goodies.

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are mandatory spending. The rest is discretionary.

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

No, it decided it didn't want to vote on the spending every year. It could just as easily stop the funding...

The treasury pays the bills according to the law and the law says that it must pay the mandatory debt regardless of a debt ceiling or a shut down until it runs out of existing revenue and reaches it's borrowing limit which is also stated by law.

When the government opens again the treasury has to pay back the money it borrowed with interest.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Thank you, AlabamaPaul. You have answered Moot pretty much the same way I would have. Your answer to her is also the answer I would give to those who claim that Obamacare is a done deal...just because it has been passed into law. It is not. It can, and in my opinion should, be trashed as bad legislation by a reasoned and reasonable Congress.

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Except that there is nothing about the spending in question that the state needs to operate. There is no good reason that entitlement spending should be mandatory.

Thats just your opinion.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

The treasury pays the bills according to the law and the law says that it must pay the mandatory debt regardless of a debt ceiling or a shut down until it runs out of money and then reaches it's borrowing limit which is also stated by law.

It doesn't pay debt; it pays the country's obligations as already passed by Congress. Do you think the Treasury Department has no recurring revenue if the debt ceiling is not raised? If it is not raised, the President will decide what "bills" are paid...

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Thank you, AlabamaPaul. You have answered Moot pretty much the same way I would have. Your answer to her is also the answer I would give to those who claim that Obamacare is a done deal...just because it has been passed into law. It is not. It can, and in my opinion should, be trashed as bad legislation by a reasoned and reasonable Congress.

Obamacare is already funded and won't run out of money for another couple of years. Naa na na naaaa.

 

[AlabamaPaul]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Obamacare is already funded and won't run out of money for another couple of years. Naa na na naaaa.

Any program that is "funded" can be just as easily defunded. Have you signed up yet?

 

[Henrin]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

And Paul Ryan can't wait to go after all three of them,
after using them when young and immediately hopping on to the government teat his whole adult life after he was given all these goodies.

Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone. - Frederic Basiat

But we assure the socialists that we repudiate only forced organization, not natural organization. We repudiate the forms of association that are forced upon us, not free association. We repudiate forced fraternity, not true fraternity. We repudiate the artificial unity that does nothing more than deprive persons of individual responsibility. - Frederic Basiat

 

[Moot]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

It doesn't pay debt; it pays the country's obligations as already passed by Congress. Do you think the Treasury Department has no recurring revenue if the debt ceiling is not raised? If it is not raised, the President will decide what "bills" are paid...

I don't have time to educate you because I have to go the grocery story now. In the meantime, why don't you go educate yourself and then when I come back we can have an adult discussion based on the facts instead of your nay saying denial about something you obviously little to nothing about. MK?

 

[Henrin]

Re: ObamaCare cost is too unbearable

Thats just your opinion.

Hardly. There is nothing about entitlement spending that is necessary for operating the state.