Obamacare Architect - If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Pay More

[cpwill]

:doh now they tell us. Interesting how all these promises had all these little unspoken corollaries.

I wonder if this is going to get as much play as the lies misspeaking about "if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance". Given the chronology, I imagine most folks will start seeing this hit them with the start of the new year, when their doctor isn't available anymore, and that's when we will see a run of stories on it.

If you want to keep your doctor, you might have to pay more for it, Obamacare architect Zeke Emanuel said today on Fox News Sunday:

The host, Chris Wallace, said: "President Obama famously promised, if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Doesn't that turn out to be just as false, just as misleading, as his promise about if you like your plan, you can keep your plan? Isn't it a fact, sir, that a number, most, in fact, of the Obamacare health plans that are being offered on the exchanges exclude a number of doctors and hospitals to lower costs?"
"The president never said you were going to have unlimited choice of any doctor in the country you want to go to," said the Obamacare architect.
"No. He asked a question. If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. Did he not say that, sir?"
"He didn't say you could have unlimited choice."
"It's a simple yes or no question. Did he say if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor?"
"Yes. But look, if you want to pay more for an insurance company that covers your doctor, you can do that. This is a matter of choice. We know in all sorts of places you pay more for certain -- for a wider range of choices or wider range of benefits.The issue isn't the selective networks. People keep saying, Oh, the problem is you're going to have a selective network--"
"Well, if you lose your doctor or lose your hospital--"
"Let me just say something," said Emanuel. "People are going to have a choice as to whether they want to pay a certain amount for a selective network or pay more for a broader network."
"Which will mean your premiums will probably go up."
"They get that choice. That's a choice they always made."....

Bad Dancing, Emanuel.

 

[ttwtt78640]

What folks are gradually learning is that many (low end) PPACA exchange plans are requiring the use of mini-networks that may not include any providers within 50 miles of your residence. These are state approved plans not necessarily tailored to rural counties. To get a (high end) PPACA exchange plan that has wider coverage (with out of network providers included) is more expensive in premiums, deductibles and out of pocket expenses. The killer, for many folks, is that the subsidy is limited to the "silver" level (2nd from the bottom) so if you are "poor" (actually not rich) you will literally freak out over the added costs involved with the "keep your doctor" option.

 

[Renae]

IF you think it's bad now, wait till O-care fails completely and the real game is instituted; Single Payer. Failure of the system, and a rebuilding of the entire system to provide "free healthcare". It's going to get very ugly.

 

[Mycroft]

I saw the news article on that earlier and couldn't believe that guy got on Fox News Sunday and said that. It's as if he was actually TRYING to get people mad at Obama all over again. Who the hell told him to go out and say that stuff?

LOL!!

 

[reinoe]

This is nothing new. It's like the ACA haters are learning about insurance for the first time. Maybe the haters can cooperate and do things to fix problems as they arise, instead of complaining about things that have been in effect for at least 20 years.


EDIT: I wonder what the next pointless irrational gripe will be...

Premiums again?
Maybe the haters will rediscover deductibles and complain some more about that.
Of course they could just bring Palin out from whatever rock she's hiding under to lie about death panels again. She really gets the idiots going.

 

[Dickieboy]

I thought the part where Emanuel claimed that PPACA involvement would be much better once it is marketed harder just as provocative...? REALLY? I would suspect that after ~2 years of incessant selling ANY successful marketing plan would have proven itself by now. But considering the recent polling it seems not.

 

[Dickieboy]

This is nothing new. It's like the ACA haters are learning about insurance for the first time. Maybe the haters can cooperate and do things to fix problems as they arise, instead of complaining about things that have been in effect for at least 20 years.

Why aren't the 'ACA lovers' offering up any fixes to THEIR legislation? Why is the burden of fixing this on the 'haters'?

 

[reinoe]

Why aren't the 'ACA lovers' offering up any fixes to THEIR legislation? Why is the burden of fixing this on the 'haters'?

I'm of the belief that if you don't like something you have to do more than complain, you should offer solutions. The haters have done nothing but complain and some of them are actually sabotaging the ACA by spreading misinformation and let's not forget 40+ votes to repeal the law, because the House couldn't think of a better use of their time.

Obama hasn't offered any fixes other than issuing a decree that insurance plans don't have to kick people off their plans for at least a year. That's a much bigger problem since it's supposed to be his signature legislation and some of the fixes are easy.

 

[Greenbeard]

This is nothing new. It's like the ACA haters are learning about insurance for the first time.

I think a lot of people are learning about insurance for the first time. That said, it's more an indictment of the way things have been for decades that the concept of paying for the things you want is considered a novelty.

 

[reinoe]

I think a lot of people are learning about insurance for the first time. That said, it's more an indictment of the way things have been for decades that the concept of paying for the things you want is considered a novelty.

Probably. You should hear some of the seniors griping when they call in about paying deductibles in Medicare. It's ****ing awful. The sense of entitlement can be almost overwhelming at times. Thank goodness the AEP/OEP is over for now.

 

[cpwill]

Why aren't the 'ACA lovers' offering up any fixes to THEIR legislation? Why is the burden of fixing this on the 'haters'?

Because they have invested so much into supporting this pile that, in the event of a crash landing, they have no off-ramp.

 

[Dickieboy]

I'm of the belief that if you don't like something you have to do more than complain, you should offer solutions. The haters have done nothing but complain and some of them are actually sabotaging the ACA by spreading misinformation and let's not forget 40+ votes to repeal the law, because the House couldn't think of a better use of their time.

Was the repeal of the CLASS program (initiated by the House GOP) one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, and signed by the President...
Or maybe the repeal of the 1099 tax reporting (again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was signed by the President also.
Or perhaps the repeal of the 'Free choice vouchers' (once again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was ALSO signed by the President.

Weird, it appears the House GOP HAS been doing things successfully to provide solutions to the PPACA. Now maybe you can refer me to things the Democrats have done...?

 

[reinoe]

Was the repeal of the CLASS program (initiated by the House GOP) one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, and signed by the President...
Or maybe the repeal of the 1099 tax reporting (again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was signed by the President also.
Or perhaps the repeal of the 'Free choice vouchers' (once again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was ALSO signed by the President.

Weird, it appears the House GOP HAS been doing things successfully to provide solutions to the PPACA. Now maybe you can refer me to things the Democrats have done...?

I said that Obama hasn't offered any real solutions and that that is a much bigger problem. It's in the portion of the post you selectively didn't include in the quote.

 

[Greenbeard]

Or perhaps the repeal of the 'Free choice vouchers' (once again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was ALSO signed by the President.

Why is eliminating the free choice vouchers something to be happy about?

 

[Dickieboy]

Why is eliminating the free choice vouchers something to be happy about?

Because it circumvents the 'employer penalty' within the law.

 

[reinoe]

Was the repeal of the CLASS program (initiated by the House GOP) one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, and signed by the President...
Or maybe the repeal of the 1099 tax reporting (again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was signed by the President also.
Or perhaps the repeal of the 'Free choice vouchers' (once again initiated by the House GOP) was one of those 40+votes? Oh yeah, that was ALSO signed by the President.

Weird, it appears the House GOP HAS been doing things successfully to provide solutions to the PPACA. Now maybe you can refer me to things the Democrats have done...?

Obama drops long-term health care program - CNN.com

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Citing cost concerns, the Obama administration said Friday it has halted a long-term care insurance program that was part of the massive health care law passed in 2010.

The "CLASS" standard was dropped because of costs. So the House Republicans wanted to actually expand the ACA? Or was the repeal of CLASS just one of the many insincere attempts the Republicans have put forward.

The 1099 reporting repeal was a good but minor change.

Repeal of Affordable Care Act Free Choice Voucher | Dinsmore

Reasons for the Change. According to news reports, the repeal of free choice vouchers was included in the budget "deal" at the behest of the Business Roundtable, a group that represents the largest U.S. employers, and many unions.

Good for them. The GOP favored big business at the expense of small business. I'm neutral on the decision but really this was a minor change. I'll grant you it's more than what the Dems propose but it still doesn't change the fact that the haters are more about complaining than offering solutions.

 

[Dickieboy]

...Or was the repeal of CLASS just one of the many insincere attempts the Republicans have put forward.

The 1099 reporting repeal was a good but minor change.

I'm neutral on the decision but really this was a minor change...

edited for brevity

Just so I understand your game, you claim 'haters have done nothing but complain' so when I provide something the 'haters' have done (other than complain) you marginalize their actions...it now seems you are the one who is complaining...?

 

[Dickieboy]

I said that Obama hasn't offered any real solutions and that that is a much bigger problem. It's in the portion of the post you selectively didn't include in the quote.

Yes, I know. I didn't respond to it as I agree somewhat...but legislation starts in the legislature. I expect Congressional Democrats to provide solutions...as I am not a believer that the President (any one of them) is omniscient.

 

[reinoe]

edited for brevity

Just so I understand your game, you claim 'haters have done nothing but complain' so when I provide something the 'haters' have done (other than complain) you marginalize their actions...it now seems you are the one who is complaining...?

Yes I misspoke. Saying "nothing but complain" is hyperbole. I get tired of their whinging. They've certainly done far more complaining than fixing. It reminds me of a story from Toy Story 2...

Inside The Pixar Dream Factory a co-founder of the studio that brought us monsters, inc. talks about the cult of innovation. - February 1, 2003

For those who feel it's TL/DR: you can take a bad idea and make it work if you try. You can take a good idea and run it into the ground. Whether the ACA is a good idea or bad idea varies depending on whom you ask. There are good things in it and bad things in it. But if Congress would work together this is an easily fixable law.

The way I see it is the GOP doesn't like the ACA for both real and made up reasons: but the fact that they are deliberately trying to sabotage the law by creating false information is quite disgusting. Dems didn't do that with Medicare Part D or when they opposed the war in Iraq.

Speaking of the real problems with the law, the Dems are doing next to nothing to fix things. You can ignore someone outside shouting in for a long time. The Dems however are just sticking their heads in the sand and are not doing enough to fix problems.

Between Dems being a deer in the headlights and Reps spreading misinformation the ACA is having an unnecessarily rough start.

 

[reinoe]

edited for brevity

Just so I understand your game, you claim 'haters have done nothing but complain' so when I provide something the 'haters' have done (other than complain) you marginalize their actions...it now seems you are the one who is complaining...?

The reason why I say that the conservative solutions have been insincere is because that's what they are.

The only plans that conservatives can rally around are purchasing insurance across state lines and expanding HSA accounts.

I've seen lots of proposals from the GOP on an individual basis and there is no way the GOP would accept them.

Taxing health insurance benefits from the employer...
Giving tax credits of 7500-20k for citizens to purchase individual insurance.
Those two are dead in the water, because the people would never tolerate the first and Republicans would never support tax credits in those amounts, at least not with a Democratic president in charge. I'll let polifact take over when it comes to Republican proposals for health insurance actually measure up...

Republicans have proposed many solutions to control health care costs and improve quality, Ron Johnson says | PolitiFact
Actually

 

[Mycroft]

The reason why I say that the conservative solutions have been insincere is because that's what they are.

The only plans that conservatives can rally around are purchasing insurance across state lines and expanding HSA accounts.

I've seen lots of proposals from the GOP on an individual basis and there is no way the GOP would accept them.

Taxing health insurance benefits from the employer...
Giving tax credits of 7500-20k for citizens to purchase individual insurance.
Those two are dead in the water, because the people would never tolerate the first and Republicans would never support tax credits in those amounts, at least not with a Democratic president in charge. I'll let polifact take over when it comes to Republican proposals for health insurance actually measure up...

Republicans have proposed many solutions to control health care costs and improve quality, Ron Johnson says | PolitiFact
Actually

So...the only response you have to this guy shooting off his mouth and getting people mad at Obama is that "but Republicans are worse", eh?

LOL!!

I'd say that everything you've put into this latest post rightfully belongs in another thread...not in a thread with the title, "Obamacare Architect - If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Pay More".

 

[reinoe]

So...the only response you have to this guy shooting off his mouth and getting people mad at Obama is that "but Republicans are worse", eh?

LOL!!

I'd say that everything you've put into this latest post rightfully belongs in another thread...not in a thread with the title, "Obamacare Architect - If You Like Your Doctor, You Can Pay More".

The reason why my post doesn't address anything in the OP is because I didn't have anything to say about the article in the OP. I was responding to something that dickieboy said. Oh and the crux of my post isn't "But Republicans are worse" anyway.

Basic literacy is a core asset on a forum like this, might I recommend Hooked On Phonics? Might help you follow the conversation a little better.

 

[Mycroft]

The reason why my post doesn't address anything in the OP is because I didn't have anything to say about the article in the OP. I was responding to something that dickieboy said. Oh and the crux of my post isn't "But Republicans are worse" anyway.

Basic literacy is a core asset on a forum like this, might I recommend Hooked On Phonics? Might help you follow the conversation a little better.

Good excuse for being way off topic, but hey, whatever you think works for you, eh? Too bad it doesn't.

In any case, perhaps it is YOU who needs some remedial reading and writing comprehension training. This was your first post in this thread...which started off the whole Dickieboy conversation:

This is nothing new. It's like the ACA haters are learning about insurance for the first time. Maybe the haters can cooperate and do things to fix problems as they arise, instead of complaining about things that have been in effect for at least 20 years.


EDIT: I wonder what the next pointless irrational gripe will be...

Premiums again?
Maybe the haters will rediscover deductibles and complain some more about that.
Of course they could just bring Palin out from whatever rock she's hiding under to lie about death panels again. She really gets the idiots going.

That, in itself, doesn't address the topic of this thread...but, instead, tries to deflect by complaining and whining about Republicans, which, like I said, belongs in another thread.

For you, the only good or bad thing about one of Obama's guys shooting himself in the foot is that it gives you a chance to rant about how bad Republicans are.

 

[reinoe]

Good excuse for being way off topic, but hey, whatever you think works for you, eh? Too bad it doesn't.

In any case, perhaps it is YOU who needs some remedial reading and writing comprehension training. This was your first post in this thread...which started off the whole Dickieboy conversation:



That, in itself, doesn't address the topic of this thread...but, instead, tries to deflect by complaining and whining about Republicans, which, like I said, belongs in another thread.

For you, the only good or bad thing about one of Obama's guys shooting himself in the foot is that it gives you a chance to rant about how bad Republicans are.

Paying more, allows you to have access to more providers in a larger network. This is something that's been around for a long time.

Why are Republicans/conservatives surprised by this? Maybe you can enlighten me about why so many rightwingers are learning about something that's been around for decades.

I've said it plenty of times that there are plenty of bad things about the ACA, but the things you and your ilk are complaining about are often times either flat out made up lies(death panels) or things that have been around for a long time (networks, deductibles, providers). Seems like a whole lot of bullshlt.

 

[Mycroft]

Paying more, allows you to have access to more providers in a larger network. This is something that's been around for a long time.

Why are Republicans/conservatives surprised by this? Maybe you can enlighten me about why so many rightwingers are learning about something that's been around for decades.

Oh, conservatives fully understand the concept of getting what you pay for...but they also understand the concept of telling the truth...the straight truth. That appears to be something Obama and his buddies don't understand and that's why they have to, now, "explain" their "truth". Of course, if Obama had come right out and told people...way back in 2009...that people can keep their doctor if they want to pay more or keep their insurance if it meets the standards they will design so that it doesn't, that wouldn't have helped him sell Obamacare.

And, no...conservative aren't surprised about this. We had Obama pegged way back but he convinced a lot of people that he was being truthful and THEY are the ones who are surprised.

I've said it plenty of times that there are plenty of bad things about the ACA, but the things you and your ilk are complaining about are often times either flat out made up lies(death panels) or things that have been around for a long time (networks, deductibles, providers). Seems like a whole lot of bullshlt.

Oh...it's now bull**** to believe Obama when he tells you something...find out he didn't tell you the truth...and get pissed off about it? Nobody should have the right to complain about something like that?

Yeah...I guess to an Obama supporter that WOULD be bull****.