Obama: Some jobs 'are just not going to come back'

[Aberration]

You cannot compete with 2$/hour in another country, and even then they are being automated. A week ago it was reveled that a factory in China was replacing several thousand workers with robots. The economy is heavily globalized now, that is the new reality.

If you can't compete how is it we still have so much manufacturing here in the US?


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[Southern Dad]

If Apples headquarters is in Ireland, and their manufacturing base is in China. What makes them an American company. Seems to me they are no longer an American company.


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At the present time for tax purposes they are an American company. It would not surprise me if that did change one day. They built their manufacturing plant for the Mac Pro in Texas rather than California but they are building their new main campus in California.

 

[Southern Dad]

How would you even track how many people they employ in data centres overseas unless you want to track every call leaves the United States. How would you track people using Skype, sharing files on Dropbox or through e-mail? Everything is being automated, what once took 20 people now only takes one, if that, to look at a computer. Supply chains especially are been heavily automated, part of my studies are in supply chain management and they are becoming ever more increasingly automated. Even transportation is being automated at a rapid pace, just a few months ago some trucks drove themselves across Europe. Eventually those jobs will be gone too. You cannot compete with automation. As for construction, that is a one time deal, as well as being a field ripe for automation due to labour costs.

You so underestimate the power of the federal government. Our business, a small fish, in the big pond has to do reporting. All of our expenses are on those ledgers. While it may not say how many people we use though our third party contractor to do ad creation we are deducting that cost from our revenue. In addition, those that we have as actual employees in India or the Philippines show up again, on the expense side of the ledger.

I can understand the defeatist attitude that we can't do anything, so let's just write off the American job market. Everyone needs a living wage, regardless of employment status, etc. But there is one man who wants to try and do something about it in this election. And you all think he's an idiot. Construction is a one time deal for this project, then that project, etc. There are a lot of one time deals that can be done. Ever see how many people a major construction site employs and for how long? us. The groundbreaking for Apple's new campus was November 2013, it is supposed to open Q4 2016. You might look at a three year project as temporary construction jobs but those are good paying jobs that we have laborers to perform. Or we could just lay down and whine there are no jobs. Other countries are glad to build those automated manufacturing plants.

BMW's South Carolina plant has an army of robots. Yet, it employs 8000 - 10000 workers at BMW Spartanburg. Just because some manufacturing is automated does not mean there are no people working there.

 

[Aberration]

This is why when I went to school, I chose to learn how to work on robots.


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[Southern Dad]

This is why when I went to school, I chose to learn how to work on robots.


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Excellent choice. As a result of that choice, you will most likely have work throughout your whole lifetime. Eventually robots will fix robots but you picked well. One of my siblings chose to be a mortician. His reasoning was that people will always die. Another chose to be a doctor, he's regretting that now that he's spending so much time dealing with compliance, and insurance requirements. We all make choices in this lifetime. Some make better ones than others. In the end those choices are what determines how difficult our life will be. There should be better rewards for good choices than for bad. I waited until 36 to become a father. This meant, that I was more financially stable. Of course, the penalty? I do not qualify for the EITC, an income redistribution plan. If I had became a father younger, I could have got WIC, EITC, and all those other things but I chose to wait.

You picked a good career with a future. You should do better than someone who, well like me is in newspaper management. One day, I'm going to be out of work. We shouldn't punish you by supplementing my compensation.

 

[Carjosse]

You so underestimate the power of the federal government. Our business, a small fish, in the big pond has to do reporting. All of our expenses are on those ledgers. While it may not say how many people we use though our third party contractor to do ad creation we are deducting that cost from our revenue. In addition, those that we have as actual employees in India or the Philippines show up again, on the expense side of the ledger.

I can understand the defeatist attitude that we can't do anything, so let's just write off the American job market. Everyone needs a living wage, regardless of employment status, etc. But there is one man who wants to try and do something about it in this election. And you all think he's an idiot. Construction is a one time deal for this project, then that project, etc. There are a lot of one time deals that can be done. Ever see how many people a major construction site employs and for how long? us. The groundbreaking for Apple's new campus was November 2013, it is supposed to open Q4 2016. You might look at a three year project as temporary construction jobs but those are good paying jobs that we have laborers to perform. Or we could just lay down and whine there are no jobs. Other countries are glad to build those automated manufacturing plants.

BMW's South Carolina plant has an army of robots. Yet, it employs 8000 - 10000 workers at BMW Spartanburg. Just because some manufacturing is automated does not mean there are no people working there.

Exactly you are a small fish, you do not have the army for accountants to hide that. Whereas large corporations do, they can avoid paying that by accruing expenses differently or through subsidiaries. It also give just gives them another reason to leave. He is an idiot, he has no practical plan to do anything and it is impossible to bring most jobs back. The auto industry is one of the few industries that cannot easily move because they are cost prohibitive to transport but what will happen is a continued increase in automation, those jobs will become fewer and fewer.

 

[Carjosse]

At the present time for tax purposes they are an American company. It would not surprise me if that did change one day. They built their manufacturing plant for the Mac Pro in Texas rather than California but they are building their new main campus in California.

Except their profits are funneled through Ireland. Apple's US operations only incur expenses, all the actual revenue is in Ireland. You seem to not understand how taxes or multinational corporations work.

 

[jonny5]

You cannot compete with 2$/hour in another country, and even then they are being automated. A week ago it was reveled that a factory in China was replacing several thousand workers with robots. The economy is heavily globalized now, that is the new reality.

You can certainly get closer by reducing taxes and regulation and trade barriers. Americans WANT to employ americans and buy american. But not at 10x the price. Maybe at 1.5x the price.

 

[Carjosse]

You can certainly get closer by reducing taxes and regulation and trade barriers. Americans WANT to employ americans and buy american. But not at 10x the price. Maybe at 1.5x the price.

Try 1.02x.

 

[Southern Dad]

Exactly you are a small fish, you do not have the army for accountants to hide that. Whereas large corporations do, they can avoid paying that by accruing expenses differently or through subsidiaries. It also give just gives them another reason to leave. He is an idiot, he has no practical plan to do anything and it is impossible to bring most jobs back. The auto industry is one of the few industries that cannot easily move because they are cost prohibitive to transport but what will happen is a continued increase in automation, those jobs will become fewer and fewer.

What you don't understand is that no one is trying to hide that they employ or contract people overseas. Not the big corporations, not the small ones. There is no reason to try and hide it. It is legal. You have no evidence than any company hides their offshore employees. None. You are throwing out more EXCUSES. Why are there so many excuses? What is your plan to bring jobs back to this country? Oh, that's right you don't have one. Living wage, and all that bullcrap to run even more jobs overseas. We have a clear choice this election. Do we put America first?

 

[Southern Dad]

Except their profits are funneled through Ireland. Apple's US operations only incur expenses, all the actual revenue is in Ireland. You seem to not understand how taxes or multinational corporations work.

Okay, oh wise one, document that. Lay it out for us. Show us their Irish tax returns and their American ones hiding the revenue. Go ahead. This should be easy, unless you were just making up something and had no real clue what you were talking about.

 

[Southern Dad]

You can certainly get closer by reducing taxes and regulation and trade barriers. Americans WANT to employ americans and buy american. But not at 10x the price. Maybe at 1.5x the price.

Here's the cost analysis... What does it cost for production, cost, and shipping from APAC compared to cost of producing it here in the US. You throw tariffs into that mix and things could change a lot.

 

[Carjosse]

What you don't understand is that no one is trying to hide that they employ or contract people overseas. Not the big corporations, not the small ones. There is no reason to try and hide it. It is legal. You have no evidence than any company hides their offshore employees. None. You are throwing out more EXCUSES. Why are there so many excuses? What is your plan to bring jobs back to this country? Oh, that's right you don't have one. Living wage, and all that bullcrap to run even more jobs overseas. We have a clear choice this election. Do we put America first?

Yes but if you implement a tariff on overseas labour you will create a demand for it and they will hide it.

 

[Aberration]

Excellent choice. As a result of that choice, you will most likely have work throughout your whole lifetime. Eventually robots will fix robots but you picked well. One of my siblings chose to be a mortician. His reasoning was that people will always die. Another chose to be a doctor, he's regretting that now that he's spending so much time dealing with compliance, and insurance requirements. We all make choices in this lifetime. Some make better ones than others. In the end those choices are what determines how difficult our life will be. There should be better rewards for good choices than for bad. I waited until 36 to become a father. This meant, that I was more financially stable. Of course, the penalty? I do not qualify for the EITC, an income redistribution plan. If I had became a father younger, I could have got WIC, EITC, and all those other things but I chose to wait.

You picked a good career with a future. You should do better than someone who, well like me is in newspaper management. One day, I'm going to be out of work. We shouldn't punish you by supplementing my compensation.

If you think robots will eventually fix robots, you don't understand robots. I can't even teach many grown adults how.

Who could have predicted the Internet? You are only going to be out of work if you insist on always being a newspaper manager.


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[Carjosse]

Okay, oh wise one, document that. Lay it out for us. Show us their Irish tax returns and their American ones hiding the revenue. Go ahead. This should be easy, unless you were just making up something and had no real clue what you were talking about.

Okay here is a convenient article, one of many that can be found with a simple Google search.

 

[Aberration]

Why should a company have to pay US taxes on income not earned in the US?


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[Southern Dad]

If you think robots will eventually fix robots, you don't understand robots. I can't even teach many grown adults how.

Obviously, you know all about robots not being able to fix robots. These people are just guessing.

Damaged Robot Can 'Heal' Itself in Less Than 2 Minutes

In big step for robotics, one robot repairs another in space | Computerworld

Self-Repair Techniques Point to Robots That Design Themselves | February 2016 | Communications of the ACM

A Self-Repairing Space Robot on the International Space Station

Who could have predicted the Internet? You are only going to be out of work if you insist on always being a newspaper manager.

Yes, being just a newspaper manager, I could be in trouble. I guess that it is a good thing that I have degrees in IT. And it is a good thing that all seven of our traditional paid newspapers have extensive web presences.

 

[Carjosse]

Why should a company have to pay US taxes on income not earned in the US?


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Well very often it is their US income but through rather complex series of international transfers and overseas entities it leaves the US without ever being taxed and either not taxed at all or taxed somewhere with a lower rate.

 

[Southern Dad]

Okay here is a convenient article, one of many that can be found with a simple Google search.

Ah so, they are not hiding the revenue but legally keeping it there. There will likely be a lot more of it. One day, Apple may decide to become an Irish company.

 

[azgreg]

sure ya did. I mentioned silicone valley is most all white and you went off in the woods and started spewing irrelevancies about county demographics. read what the OP posted and you should understand how pointless your comments are.

No I didn't. You posted this in response to K

you are confusing your geography

Then I asked you this. Notice the difference between the word the word I used "in" and the word you think I used "is".

Silicon Valley isn't located in Santa Clara County?

Then you came back with the following.

more confusion I see

So I responded with a link that shows that Silicone Valley is in fact in Santa Clara County along with two others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Valley



So it is in Santa Clara County. It's also in San Mateo County and Alameda County. However it appearas that the largest chunk of it is in Santa Clara County.

Do you have different information than that? Or are you more interested in playing word games?

edited to add another map.

So it's clear that you have some kind of reading comprehension problem. Maybe you can go back and visit your high school English teacher and get your parents money back.

 

[Aberration]

Obviously, you know all about robots not being able to fix robots. These people are just guessing.

Damaged Robot Can 'Heal' Itself in Less Than 2 Minutes

In big step for robotics, one robot repairs another in space | Computerworld

Self-Repair Techniques Point to Robots That Design Themselves | February 2016 | Communications of the ACM

A Self-Repairing Space Robot on the International Space Station

I'll be impressed when it's fixing another machine in a production environment. Doing something in a lab might as well be done in a dream.

When I use a screw gun, am I doing the fixing? Or is the robot screw gun doing the fixing?

Yes, being just a newspaper manager, I could be in trouble. I guess that it is a good thing that I have degrees in IT. And it is a good thing that all seven of our traditional paid newspapers have extensive web presences.

I don't get the point in you bringing it up then. Cool story I guess?


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[Carjosse]

Ah so, they are not hiding the revenue but legally keeping it there. There will likely be a lot more of it. One day, Apple may decide to become an Irish company.

They are legally hiding it through several loopholes. This is what almost every large US corporation does, and if you start to enact idiotic regulations in an attempt to bring back jobs they will just get up and leave.

 

[Southern Dad]

I'll be impressed when it's fixing another machine in a production environment. Doing something in a lab might as well be done in a dream

I don't get the point in you bringing it up then. Cool story I guess?


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Truthfully, I plan to work the print media side as the primary until I retire for the second time. If I knew what I know now about the Internet, I certainly would have thought twice about going into media business. When I started with this company they owned television, radio, print media, sports publications, and paging services. Over time things changed a lot, but print media is still here.

 

[Howler63]

I was browsing Reddit this morning and this video appeared on my front page.



It is Obama talking about how jobs have been outsourced but automation has been and is increasingly making jobs and many workers obsolete, those jobs will never come back. In a hit against Trump he talks about how it is impossible to bring those jobs back from overseas and from automation. What needs to be done is education to give people the skills they need to succeed for the jobs of the future, not the jobs that have existed in the past. It is very possible that in the future working in a warehouse will require no manual labour at all, just typing away at and monitoring a computer.

I feel that many Trump supporters fail to realize that nothing can be done about lost jobs, technology and globalization have been marching on while they have not. The sooner people are retrained, the pain as these jobs are inevitability lost forever will be decreased.

Even if you disagree with my political commentary, the video definitely shines a light on and gives insight into a new economy. This is part of the reason I changed my degree to one that trains me to design and monitor the data systems that support things like automation.

Hence the $15.00 minimum wage.

 

[Aberration]

Well very often it is their US income but through rather complex series of international transfers and overseas entities it leaves the US without ever being taxed and either not taxed at all or taxed somewhere with a lower rate.

Link? My understanding is most of the money never goes through the US. I am not saying shady stuff doesn't happen. I think it's just the boogeyman to get the 'base' riled up.


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